I'm building up the buggy quiver and am in need of advice from you guys.

Currently I have a 3m HQ Beamer V and a 5m PL Core. I will be adding a 4m Core soon and may have the ability to add 1 more to the quiver after that.

I have not been thrilled with the Beamer's upwind ability, so I am considering replacing it with a 3m kite that is more upwind capable, but at the same time, I am really feeling the pain of not having a "low wind" engine like a 6 or 7m something or another.

So the question is,... go big or go small?

What do you think would be better to have, a better high wind engine or a low wind engine.

of course the cost of the thing may end up being the deciding factor, but if not, what do you think?

The only answer is both... :D but with good fall winds approaching a good 2.5-3.5m might be a good choice....

If I end up with enough bucks Cheezy, you know I will, and you know where I'll get them from too

As often as not when I am going to my smallest kite it is more of a survival game. The Beamer is at least filling the hole and keeping you safe. On a super low wind day you have .... ? seems a pretty simple choice to me ?

Of course I come from a low wind location.

Seems to me that my 2M Beamer IV goes upwind best at the top end of it's windrange.(At least the top end where I feel comfortable flying it!) Haven't had the 2M Toxic out in near enough wind to make a comparison, but in the wind I have used it in, it has outperformed the Beamer easily. Hey BR, I seem to have heard that everywhere you are is a low wind location! JK! +1 for the low wind kite!

+1 for a low wind engine. You can always upgrade the Beamer later. When it is windy enough to break it out, it should still get you up wind, even if you have to work it a bit more.

There are several FB low wind engines in the For Sale section:

Van was selling some Coopers.

Elliot Lexx 6.6 for sale here.

Viper 7.8 for sale here.

Rooting around in the older For Sale posts should turn up others that have been languishing for awhile.

ATB,
Sam

Look at the 7m Beamer for sale by LEE, it may not be the best at upwind but will definitely get you going in lower winds. I have flown that kite and it is great! Great price as well! Can't beat it in my book for the price. Some work is required to get back up wind with the Beamers, it's not impossible. The beamer sits right in the power window for consistant power.

It seems like the popular vote is for a low wind machine,...

You guys think so, even with the higher wind months approaching in the fall? I suppose it makes sense, but I just REALLY got a workout going upwind with the Beamer. I've been primarily leaning toward the 3m,... help convince me otherwise

My issue is that money is really short and I am interested in using the funds for what I will get the most use out of, as well as the most fun out of.

sidebar: thanks for the recommendations and links, but I already have my eye on something for both big and or small. Not to mention that my thoughts are way ahead of my checkbook,... it's still a little ways off.

For the upwind problem you need a high aspect ratio kite. I have three kites for sale that are great upwind machines: JOJO RM+. Their true value is revealed when you use them in the buggy.

Thanks for the input tibi, I'm aware of the need for a more upwind compatible AR, which is exactly the issue I'm having with the beamer moving upwind, and I think you might have meant a higher AR rather than lower.

And thanks for the offe on the Jojo's but still, like I said above:

Quote:

Originally posted by soliver sidebar: thanks for the recommendations and links, but I already have my eye on something for both big and or small. Not to mention that my thoughts are way ahead of my checkbook,... it's still a little ways off.

And I'm still leaning towards a better 3m over a low wind engine, as I found myself more frequently going to the 3m during the "on" season... While a 6m might fare better right now, something tells me I would actually use the 3m more frequently.

I really do appreciate you guys' opinions, so if you all disagree with me help convince me.

I have the 3m Method and in 18-20 knots it goes upwind better than anything else I own. The trick is getting some speed & power into the kite before trying to turn hard upwind.

Thanks John, but the issue in question is whether or not (when funds are available) to add to the quiver a BETTER UPWIND 3m kite, or a low wind engine.

In other words, if I have the money, which one would be a more beneficial addition to my buggy quiver.

I feel like I would use the 3m more, but the popular opinion above seems otherwise.

You're right Soliver... I meant high aspect ratio. Good luck with your selection.

Only you know your wind situation. This is why I qualified my vote with the fact I come from low wind country.

If money is the issue then selling your 3m to replace it with a higher aspect seems to be your be$t bet.

I have a feeling if you had a strong enough need for a low wind kite that you would be leaning that way. I agree that you are better off getting the best kite for your typical winds will always be a good choice.

hmmmm... depends entirely on your location and wind speed. On the days when you can't kite - is it because it's too windy or not enough? Despite popular opinion, only you know exactly what your local conditions are and what sort of kite you are likely to use the most. I certainly use smaller kites much more frequently than bigger ones but I'm half a world away from your location! For windier and gusty conditions, I use my 4m Access XT a lot - from 16 - 30 knots. (3m Method would be similar) Certainly more expensive than a fixed bridle, but a confidence inspiring kite with a big wind range and pretty darn good upwind ability. food for thought.....

ok well, during the fall, winter and spring, it seems like the wind ranges regularly from 7mph to 18mph, and this last spring I frequently felt myself overpowered by the 5m and pulled out the beamer... it has only been since the winds are dying around here in the summer heat that I seem to feel the need for that low wind engine. The Core has been out a lot more lately .

But at times I wonder if that desire to put away the bigger stuff and pull out the smaller stuff is the newb in me,... will I regret not having the monster in the quiver as my skills are honed... I suppose I could just by the biggun later?

Thoughts

newb or self preservation? Out of all the blokes I regularly kite with, I often have the smallest kite up. I do not need to take risks to put a smile on my dial. You should fly what you feel comfortable flying. For a large kite, I would be looking at a depower - you have a much bigger wind range and bigger margin for error when gusts hit. I recently flew with a mate who had a new 10m Access up in 12-20 knots and he hasn't been kiting long, but depowered, the Access was able to handle the gusty winds of up to 20 knots without problem. I wouldn't even think of putting my 9m Riot up in that sort of wind...even my 6.5m method becomes a handful in over 14 knots.

I would get your 3m mid aspect fixed bridle and save up for a larger depower later on. Larger Nasa wings make great light wind engines and are relatively cheap but you don't have the same gust munching abilities as a depower and probably about half the upwind ability.

It sounds like your real desire is for a higher performance small kite. Since money is the issue , selling the 3m Beamer should be pretty easy ? You shouldn't have to add a whole lot more money to get a faster 3m then start saving for the large kite ? Saving for a larger kite will mean a good bit more coin + time ?

While 5m isn't exactly the greatest low wind kite it is about the most versitile size of FB IMHO. Learn to fly the heck out of that 5.1 and you will be amazed at the range you can get out of it ! Learning to milk power from the kite is a very good skill.

Thanks BR, I was considering keeping the beamer, but I suppose it doesn't really make sense to keep it.

Its in pretty good shape, when I am ready to buy/sell,... what price do you think it will fetch?

One thing to remember is a high performance smaller kite can be a handful compared to your beamer...

If I were to do it again, I would have a nuken wind kite around 2 meters, low aspect and then any current high performance kites. around 1.5x bigger for each size works if you are not racing...

Right now I have a gap that needs to be filled (one day) with about a 4.4 meter for the days that wind is in between my 3.3 and 5.6 coopers. For now I just fly the crap out of the 3.3 :bigok:

Are you flying hooked in? Going upwind while holding on gets very tiring - fast. Especially with bigger kites.

If you are happy with the core, I would get one around 2.8 - 3.3 in size (don't know core sizes)

Ron

Plus one for what BR said. A couple years ago there was a group of us flying at Sandy Point in very light winds. I was struggling to keep a 9m Montana in the air, others were flying 15m Speed 3, 11m Frenzy, 11m Neo and large Vapor or Combat (from Memory). And here was Nigel having no trouble keeping up with all of them with a 4m Core. Mind you, Nigel can fly anything. Stick that 5m Core on 30m lines and really work it and you'll have a pretty darn good light wind engine anyway.

One thing Nigel taught me that has been great in light winds is to move slightly away from the kite when sining the kite up and move slightly towards the kite when sining the kite down. Light wind flying takes a bit of finesse and subtlety and down turns and loops can be the order of the day too.

Actually, I am building a quiver of Cores to add to the 5m. You're right, it does very well in light wind, and even starts to make me nervous as the wind gets over 10mph. (but I don't have anywhere close by to fly on 30m lines).

I have a new 4m in the works and I know who I can get the other 2 sizes from when I have the money.

Thanks for the word on light wind flying too!

lad has 8.3 reactor, thats alot of low wind juice !

When I was flying fixed-bridle kites I found that the 5m Beamer III was absolutely great as a low wind engine. I would take that thing out in winds that people thought were unrideable, and I would start making my upwind. Learning the finess of low winds can do a lot. Sure you have to work the kite a bit, but developing those flying skills is well worth the effort.

Thinking back to those times, I was saving up my money for depower, but the kite I always wanted was a 1.8 Flexifoil Rage. I just couldnt get my wind to wrap around the idea of 250-300 dollars for a kite that small. Still, the days that I borrowed that kite are the days that are totally unforgetable. Survival kiting? Sure, but totally amazing at the same time.
:shocked2:

I think I've decided to get a more upwind capable 3m over a low wind engine.

If by some freak occurrence I can afford both, I will, but for now I'm gonna focus funds a better 3m. Thanks for the suggestions and advice guys.

I just feel that last spring I got more use out of the 3m than the 5m, so it seems like refining the 3m arena makes more sense. Not to mention that around Atlanta, "low wind" seems more like "no wind."

I know I'm kinda late to the discussion and I'm not as experienced as a lot of folks on here, but- I did put together a decent FB quiver in a short period of time, and my winds are just like yours so here goes:

I think your idea of a more performance oriented smaller kite is a good one. The very last true hole in my quiver for my wind conditions was filled by RonH's 8.3 Reactor. I don't envision my purchasing another FB for a very long time. My point being a big FB kite was the last one I sourced, but where I'm at some days I really just want to get a kite out despite my lousy summer winds so I still eventually got one. So back to your present situation, I would highly recommend you look for a performance kite in the 3.5-4M range. Keep your 3M Beamer if you can as a fun kite to teach with or as a spare for friends, ect. A 3.5M is not a huge step up from a 3M BUT, I think it will serve you a lot better in your wind conditions. In fact, a 4M should not be out of the question either. If you can find a 3.9 Viper S I think that would be a great kite for what you are wanting to do. I love mine, tons of power, good performance, excellent manners. A 4M Core would really be sweet. Maybe to save money look to buy KO for now in the Core. Lastly I saw a new 3.5M Blurr KO for only $250! I'd say that's hard to beat for a performance kite like that with an adjustable AoA bridle! Don't limit yourself to a 3M, the way I see it you can always fill 3M and below kites with nice offerings that come up for sale on here used. That's what I did but to each his own. Good luck to you Sir!

Thanks for your input Annie, I agree.

Like I said, I've already got a brand new 4m Core in the works, and am going to try to go ahead and get a used 3m Core following that. I am a big fan of the Cores since I've had my 5m, and they do indeed pull like a truck.

If I can swing it, I will try to get a 6.8m following that,... we'll see what happens.

I think our conditions are similar because you're pretty close to me, middle TN right?

Exactly. Summer conditions = hot, dry, no wind, and did I mention hot? At least it's not like our Las Vegas brothers where they have to pack in in for the summer 'cause of heat. So with that I'll stop complaining