Hello all,

I've been on and off this forum for a few years and finally thought I'd better become a real person here rather than not..

Anyways. Cut to the chase.

I've been using a Blade III 4m for a good few years on and off, in all kinds of wind and had my ass beaten all over the place, and bleedin' love it. I've also recently just done level 1 & 2 kitesurfing which was epically fun for a newbie like me.

So... the asking too much question..

I want a couple of kites that I can use for starting to landboard, as well as just to have fun out just static flying. I love the Blade, but know that it's super angry at the best of times.

I've been advised a 4m Ozone Ocane, or 4.7 Flexi Rage, or even the 4.1 or 5.6 PL Twister - together with the 4-Line Fixed Bridle Foil Composite Control Bar...

What are your thoughts? Do I abandon the 4m Blade and get a similar size but more stable/non-death-like? Or do overlap wind speeds with other kites?

I basically want the world on a stick.

Even if you suggest me 3 kites of different sizes for me to get started with would be a great help.

Thank you,

Chris
Norfolk/UK

Welcome to the forum/ funny farm!!!

I hear the Blade frequently referred to as the "widow-maker".

I myself am pretty new, but have been at it for about a year. Given what I have learned, especially from the bevy of knowledge here on PKF, what most would say is that if you want a range of kites, a 3m is good for training (then later, high wind), a 5m for mid-range winds, and a 6-7m for low wind. And handles will give you and teach you better control,... But then there are depowers which I don't know much about...

The 3m is the greatest for learning REALLY GOOD kite control, then you can move to the bigger sizes when the winds are lighter or when you are more comfortable and confident. I learned all that backwards, thinking I could go bigger first... after getting spanked by a big kite I bought a 3m and learned a LOT of control.

I like the PL Twister IIr that you mentioned, but it can seriously kick your hiney, maybe not like the Blade, but it is still quite lifty. I only know this because it is the kite that spanked me (the 5.6m size). I traded it for a 5.1m PL Core which is an awesome kite, it has lift when I want it, but I don't feel like I'm being taken to the moon when a gust hits it. I see the Core used a lot for landboarding, but it unfortunately been discontinued. The Twister is also supposed to be a great jumper, but I hear it is REALLY BAD on a bar.

The Octane looks cool to me, (I even thought I wanted one for a while) but I don't know much about it, and I don't know that many others here will either. I have heard it is a really tame starter, probably vastly different from your Blade. I can't say much about Flexi's either, I'm a PL fan myself.

In closing I really think one of the most important things to work at is kite control, and you will grow that the most when you are not having to stop and change your pants or clean your wounds . So a 3m kite on handles is the most important purchase.

All that being said,... there are way more guys with way more knowledge than I, so I hope I have done my teachers proud, and I will let them speak their piece, as I am sure their knowledge much surpasses mine, and they can probably recommend much better choices than I. (is there a smiley that embodies bowing to the Jedi Masters )

The PL Twister II 5.6 is my favourite land boarding fixed bridle. its not actually bad on a bar but it IS bad on the peter lynn bar you can buy it with! I fly on a long (70cm) bar which also works well with my 6.6 blade III. I know someone who uses a Ozone Turbo bar on the 7.7m Twister and it works well too. So if you buy a twister I would get it with handles and buy a separate bar. Still prefer handles on the blade though.

The 4.7 Rage is also a great kite to start landboarding with. The only thing it does not do well is cope with gusty wind. Flies great on a bar or handles.

Have you thought about a depower kite? An Ozone Access 10m, HQ Apex 3 10m, or an Peter Lynn Arc (current models are Phantoms or chargers but there are a bunch of others on the second hand market) 12-13m is about right for landboarding. A depower kite will cover at least 2 sizes of fixed bridle, is more versatile, gives you more control and is easier to jump with (you can sheet in on take off and the bigger canopy is more floaty) Also big kites are slower and its easier to keep your board and kite movements synchronised through carving turns etc.

Hi again, thanks for the info guys, much appreciated!

I've definitely thought about a depower, I was recommended something like the 9 or 11m Ozone Frenzy with the ozone bar... obviously this is a massive step up in price, even more than getting a couple of fixed kites, but I'm willing to spend the money if I can have a more future proof system that will allow me to use on land/snow/static as an all round kite to get really comfortable with in all areas, knowing that it'll keep me occupied for a while to come...in all kinds of winds.

I get the impression that HQ and PL fixed kites are popular around here?

i have a 4.9 blade/bar... use it to landboard cause i havent gone depower yet.... love it. when the winds right this thing just pulls like crazy and is very controllable... winds stronger and i am on any 3m 4 line w/ handles in the back of the car....... forget about the Co names, just get a good deal and buy many kites

abkayak: So your intention is for a depower in the future? - I assume most people would love a depower, but it's just the jump in expense that keeps people away. Would depowers be the kites of choice if money was no object?

BTW Is the 4m BladeIII really unsuitable for landboarding in any wind?

Thanks again.

i will go depower.......soon, not to replace the FB. Never gonna replace the fbs... i think you have to decide what direction in kitting you plan to go.....then plan and buy your kites accordingly. i wanna do it all. land water it's all good to me, so need a big quiver. i am intimadated by large depower cause of very limmited experiance w/ them...thats correctable.i have tons of time on fb so i dont reach for the wrong kite when i go out (always bring 2le) next purchase for me is depower(time for the water), but i bet the one after that is FB

I can't speak for the Octane but the Rage and Twister are apples and oranges.

The Rage is low lift with buggy in mind. The Twister is high lift like your Blade with freestyle in mind.

If you shop you can find some amazing deals on depower kites. $400 for that Pulse II 8m would have been a fantastic place to start.

Depower is less fun than handles to static fly but once you get moving doing so will become less important.

Good observation about the PL / HQ influence here. Folks are slightly biased but you can get honest opinions on most brands if you ask.

Thanks Bladerunner,

Useful info regarding Rage vs Twister, much appreciated - that's exclty the kind of info I'm after. It's so hard to work that out from over here.

I'm definitely up for getting some kind of second hand depower, but trying to choose one is difficult when I don't really know the differences in brands / models. I need to keep plugging through the forums until I learn.

I guess ideally I want to depower to get up to speed with static flying, with long term idea of adding a landboard at some stage when I feel confident, and hopefully by that time I'll be happy with flying the depower in various winds and understanding how it flies.

I think depower-wise, the general consensus I get after much reading and forum posts, is that the Ozone Access Depower 10m is probably a great place to start.

For non depower options... I'm still reading reading reading...

Squidley, yes the Access is a good choice in that Ozone makes great equipment. To broaden your options, don't pass up a good deal on an HQ Montana. The VI and VII Montanas are truly awesome machines. They don't mind going fast either. My son and I have both been into the 50s (mph) with the 7m M VII in our buggies. Let us know what you're seeing for sale and some of us probably have experience with it.

Thanks BeamerBob!

Thanks for the warm welcome here people, it's much appreciated

I'd also have to agree on going depower if you're thinking landboard and snow. It'll be a bit of a slug to static fly, but they're not designed for that. They're designed for you to be in motion with so that when you get a gust or a lull, you can either pull in or let out the bar a bit to compensate and trim so your comfortable in a wider range of wind conditions than a fixed bridle. They are much gentler (and one could argue, safer) to fly in gusty conditions.

The new Ozone Access are very nice - the older XC models are a bit slow to turn for my liking. HQ make the Apex - a very stable, dependable kite - not quite the quality of the Ozone or with quite a forgiving top end, but excellent value for money for a landboard/snowkite. Not overly lifty though. A 7.5m Apex or 10m Apex may suit your needs. Haven't spent any time on the new Montana's but they are really well respected down this neck of the woods (Aus). Frenzy also very good - faster, more power and more lifty than an Access.

Thanks John, some great info there, thank you.

I've seen debates/choices between the access and the frenzy - and it seems exactly as you suggest, the frenzy is almost the bigger brother, or for a slightly more advanced user. I keep switching the choice between them, but ultimately I guess I 'should' play the safer route and go for the more forgiving option as my first depower. I would say a lot of the places I fly around here are fairly gusty in places so I would be stupid not to bear this in mind.

It seems the 10m Apex & 10m Access are pretty much the same price here in the UK (On first looking)

It also seems a lot of people go for the 8m Access, but they often seem to me smaller/lighter than me (I'm about 85kg) - so I guess 10m might be better(?)

Thanks again - I'll have a look at the Apex in more detail, cheers.

If the Apex and Access are the same price, no question - get the Access. Much nicer bar and fittings and more 'goodies' on the kite - like 'blowout valves' and mesh covered leading edge for the snow.

In Aus at the moment the current retail value for the Access 10m is $1300 and for the Apex 10m is $900.

The only thing I really don't like about the Apex (and I believe it may be the same on the Montana) is that you need really long arms to reach the trim strap when under power.

John - thanks again

I certainly don't have long arms!

You've made my decisions much clearer, thank you.

I'm 75kg and sometimes wish I had bought the 12m Access so you definately want the 10m!!! Powerkite shop near Birmingham have really good prices on Ozone depowers at the moment.

Your 4m Blade IS suitable for landboarding, you will just need enough wind!! Its not a great kite to start with (lifty kite + high wind = steep learning curve) I prefer my Blade over depower kites in light wind.

There is not really a bias towards HQ & PL. Its just they are more well known brands in the US and most people on here are in the States. + Ozone & Flexifoil are really expensive over there! (not that they are cheap in the UK)

There is definately a higher proportion of PL Arc users on here than any other kite forum I have been on! This forum is definately biased towards Arcs!

You want to be honest with yourself about how much airtime you are after.

I am with everybody as far as depower goes. OZ is great. HQ very good ... If you want to stay earthbound stick with access , apex type kites. If you think airtime is in your future then Frenzy , Psycho IV ...

Of course I would LOVE to be able to get airtime in the future, but I certainly have zero experience of any kind of air right now....but also aware I don't want to bite of more than I can chew to begin with..... but ultimately I'd like the option!