SO I had my first good outing with my 4m and ATB and I finally got going a few hundred feet or so and then ran out of room. I was able to go back and forth a few dozen times and barely wiped out. I even had the honour of experiencing warp speed :wee:.

MY 4m is a fixed bridle (I believe as it does not have de-power). I have the harness strap on it and I can choose to hook in or not. throughout my session I tried to fly both hooked in and not. I found that I had a lot less control over my kite when I was hooked in vs not. I also found to be less "connected" to the kite and I was not able to compensate for lull's and bursts of wind while hooked in vs just the bar. I also find that I have more room for movement and faster turning abilities when not hooked in.

I have seen a number of posts that suggest that handles give an even greater feel of being "connected" vs bar.

SO my question/comment is: are handles that much better than bar on a FB kite? IF so, where can I get some?

If you are in a buggy or flying static, handles offer way better control than a bar. On handles you can turn your on both the power lines and the the brake lines; you can apply both brakes at the same time. You can not do either with a bar.
I am still waiting for the video of someone flying a reverse loop with a bar.

S

As for the hooked in vs non hooked in, you are right, you will have way more control and ability for fine corrections if you are not hooked in, but hooked in has 2 main benefits. First your arms will not feel like they're on fire after 15 min. Second. You can usually hold on to way more power in the kite being hooked in. Down side as you mentioned is a bit of a loss of control.

Side note, for Buggying I have a seat harness adjusted real low. this puts the pull on the buggy way down by the side rails making it easier to slide the buggy instead of up high by my shoulders where it wants to flip the buggy.

Pablo,

SO on a buggy you dont wear a harness? you hook the kite right into the buggy?

When you are hooked in with a fixed bridle and bar you are limited in how much you can do for sure. You are left with only the push / pull influence on the whole wing.

Being hooked in with handles allows you to turn the kite by simply giving brake input " brake turns " . + to add some push / pull influence.

Even at that I find that if the wind is really flukey handling the kite unhooked and with handles gives you the most possible in options to control things.

Handles aren't too expensive. Either put a wanted add on here or contact any of the respected dealers from this site. They will be worth every penny ! I know because I tried desperately to make a bar my control method of choice. Handles won !

I am thinking of getting a 6m, should I go with something with handles or go to something with depower?

IYO.

are the Quad Handles - Ultra good handles? DOes anyone have suggestions on good handles?

Quote:

Originally posted by hickupper are the Quad Handles - Ultra good handles? DOes anyone have suggestions on good handles?

Any handle from Ozone, Flexi, HQ, PL, will be fine these days or you can make your own out of PVC and climbing rope and those work great too.

As to wether or not to go depower... only you can decide. For me it was the right thing to do and I'll never look back (but I kite land board). There is a huge difference between a 6m depower (mid to high wind) and a 6m fixed bridle (low wind).

DPs offer 40-60% of the power of FBs of the same size.

If Quad handles Ultra is a brand, I haven't heard of them ? They may be more common in Europe? .

It is best to buy name brand gear. Handles however are pretty low tech..

If money is an issue I can probably find a link to building your own with PVC.

If you are referring to the HQ ultra quad handles, I use them and like them - just always takes me a minute to get used to not having the power lines running between my fingers - it's cool, just weird...

Hickupper,

I fly with my kite attached to my harness with a swivel wichard quick release and a pulley. What I was referring to was that with a seat harness, which is the only type I"d recommend in a buggy. the kite is effectively hooked to your waist line, which with a nice buggy, is at or below the side rails of the buggy, so you have to be pulled up before your arse will get pulled over the side rails. It puts the center of pull way lower in the buggy making it way harder to either get pulled out or have the whole buggy get pulled over onto you. You can tether kite to you, and seatbelt you to the buggy, but you want to avoid kite to buggy.

You want to be very careful if you are thinking of attaching a kite to a buggy. It makes it a "Powered Vehicle" which is banned in many states and provinces from being used on public parks/beaches.

To the OP

If you are boarding I would stick with the bar. Unhook for moves and hook in while you are cruising to save energy. OR get a longer bar which has more leverage = more response.

Its hard to get the right body position on a board using handles and almost impossible to ride toeside in stronger winds (well for a beginner to intermediate rider anyway)

So no, thats not what handles are for. Handles are for buggying and static flying where yes, they have better control capability. I would definately get yourself a set in any case though.

Also try a depower foil or LEIon you board - you will like it

I am not sure I understand why you think it is hard to get the right body postion using handles ? Can you expand on that ?

I would suggest if you go to a bar go to depower. If you fly a FB on a standard bar you are not getting the most out of your FB. Turbo bar seems a nice middle ground but I have no experience with one.

I can see the difficulty in going toeside on a board and having to keep the handles beside each other. Depower would be much more appropriate riding at that level.

I think our young Roland could show you that handles are just fine for a board, even kitesurf board.
S

I ride ATB with handles on a FB. But ,I don't do aerial stuff. I cruise the beach and carve powered up. I have no probs hooked or unhooked. I will say ,if you are gonna get air and do tricks,you need to go de-power. As far as bars go, there is another X-over bar that won't break your bank,it's made by PKD. Unlike the Ozone Turbo bar,it has no chicken loop. You just hold the bar and fly. You do have a kite killer type leash,in case you have to let go. It is called the "Buster bar". Works very well too. :wee:

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner I am not sure I understand why you think it is hard to get the right body postion using handles ? Can you expand on that ? I would suggest if you go to a bar go to depower. If you fly a FB on a standard bar you are not getting the most out of your FB. Turbo bar seems a nice middle ground but I have no experience with one.

Yeah sure, When I ride toeside I will just let go of the bar with my back hand and that lets me keep looking in the direction of travel with shoulders, knees and board all lined up.

When I have tried to ride toeside with handles my back shoulder is rotated forward and I feel twisted. Its not comfortable for me. I also find it impossible to get enough weight over the toeside edge to stay upwind.

I haven't reallt tried doing grabs and jumps and stuff with handles but a bar seems better suited for anything where you want to have one handed control.

I'm an intermediate level snow & landboarder, and pretty much a beginner on the water so obviously my difficulties could be down to lack of skill but I can't see how handles could be easier in the situations described.

Like most kiting questions personal preference plays a big part I think.

I see now. You are absolutley right that flying FB on a bar will simplify handling. More so when learning. You have to give up a lot of the fine control for that though.

You can cruise with one hand without too much issue hooked in and working the brake . Not exactly a beginer move but not too advanced . You can also cruise unhooked with both handles in one hand but that can be tricky.

I don't ride toeside often.

I am not saying that using a bar is wrong so much as that you won't get the most out of the kite. I really enjoy a bar and worked hard at matching my FB kites to one. I ended up moving to depower and back to handles with FB to get the most out of my kites. I was finally sold one an evening I was struggling to fly my kites in a gusty soccer field . Could not keep a kite in the sky. As a last ditched effort I threw handles on and actually got out riding ! Like I had a completely different kite ! Never turned back.

If you really want to fly a fixed bridal kite on 4 lines with a bar. As mentioned above, a crossover type bar setup where the brake lines become an active part of the kite steering can get you most of the control you would have if you were to fly it on handles. They do take a bit of tinkering to set up just right, every kite likes a different ammt of brake input to turn it faster without knocking the air out of the sail. But once they're setup. They can work quite well, I have done this on kites ranging from a 3m Brooza up to a 9m Buster and managed to get them to all behave good on the bar. Then I went with a standard buggy style Wichard QR system and a safety line from the brakes on the crossover part of the bar setup with the other end of it attached to the harness. so if you did cut the kite loose from the harness you don't lose it.

There are options out there. I had schematics to make your own kicking around somewhere, but I don't know exactly where, haven't looked for them in 4 yrs or so. Someone must have a link to the setup somewhere.