Having just bought a new kite (ozone samurai II 5m) I'm going to get a control bar to use with it, instead of the handles and killers it comes with, as i want to get more time on my land board.

To me, one of the appeals of depowers is the fact that when hooked up to a harness most of the power of the kite goes into the harness, not through your arms, so you can do big jumps, fly with less muscle ache etc etc etc.

(i dont know how this works as the line that goes onto your harness is the brake lines ?)

I want a control bar that will allow me to do the same. ive seen a lot of control bars, and cross over bars, many of them are used with harnesses, so you can move the bar closer and further away from your body, changing the pressure on the brake and power lines, but surely the vast majority of the kites power will still be held through your arms?

i saw a bar called the 'ozone turbo bar' which looked like what i want, and very similar to a depower bar, where most of the power goes into the harness. (am i right in thinking this ?) There were also far more safety features than a standard control bar (i'm sure you know more than me,) including various things you could pull to kill the kite, and dropping the bar would also kill it.

is the ozone turbo bar the only one of the kind ? they are pretty pricey, and rarely come up on eBay. (i'm going to post in a UK based kite forum, see if anyone has one for sale.) if it is just a particular type of control bar, can someone tell me some other alternatives that have the same features ? (can be spesific ones, or just the generic type)

i saw a 'Radsail Pro Crossover Control Bar with Safety Bar System' on ebay, but i dont think its the same..
( http://www.skyhighkites.co.uk/shop/product/825/ )

i hope ive explained myself well enough !

i feel a bit bad for posting so much in the forums, and asking what for some must be quite basic questions, but i guess thats what its here for i would appreciate any advice / comments / answers.

Thanks,
Tim

Don't feel bad about asking questions, that's the point of this online community. The issue with asking questions is you have to live with the responses whether you agree or not. With that said I'll again offer my input and others I'm sure will do the same. Two things I see here: First, you have done well to seek input on your next kite purchase given your unique criteria which in the nutshell was getting a kite that is manageable that is not as likely to cause grave injury while learning and eventually get you going on an ATB. You have bought an excellent kite for your needs in the 5M Sami II. So now on to my second point, a 5M is a very big step up from a 3M. You have previously noted that sometimes you are a bit of a nervous flyer. Going to a bar right off the bat is not going to help with either your skills progression or confidence in learning to feel comfortable handling this kite. There's no issue with looking for a suitable bar for later when you are ready for the ATB but you absolutely have to learn the proper skills with the handles first. You have so much less control with a bar, a 5M is a big kite to have up flying without the brake line input you'll have with the handles. I have a Flexifoil bar I sometimes use on my 4.7 Rage, so I know what I'm talking about here. I think you have to understand that a FB bar and a depower bar are vastly different. No matter how much you want to replicate the characteristics of flying a depower setup, a FB kite on a bar is not and will never be close IMHO. Not trying to be harsh here but you still need to start with the basics and build your confidence on the handles, the ATB is just going to have to wait until you can masster that 5M on handles, then master it with the bar with NO harness. Then and only then try the bar with ATB. Don't waist your $ on a harness until you either plan to get in a buggy, or save enough money to get a depower kite.

your getting ahead of yourself....its easy to do i know.....stop, get your new kite and go out in some lighter winds w/ the handles and become the pilot you need to be.... you dont need no stinkin bar - or harness for that matter. go fly the ---- out of that kite......... the way it is. No changes just go have fun!!!

OK, now time for someone w/ some mileage under their belt to chime in. There is absolutely no reason you couldn't use a Ozone turbo bar w/ a harness. With the turbo bar(which I own 2) your power leads go to the center line which runs into the chicken loop which attaches to your harness. The brakes go to the outsides ,and you are steering the kite by brakes(which is how I fly on handles). The turbo bar does slide on the center line, but it does not de-power.It applies the brakes. This can be used to land or completely kill the kite. The turbo bar also has several safety devices on it as well.The only downside is if you have a kite that is 2 line biased,it may not fly well on it. I'm not sure about the sami,someone else will have to tell you that. If you get a turbo bar,try it on your 3m first and get used to it. Then try your 5m in lower wind. And there other crossover bars like the PKD buster bar,which is a non-harness bar . It has a kite killer on it,so in the event of emergency, you just let go.
If you plan on ATB and buggying, then you would do yourself some good to get used to a harness. It lower the point of tow,and makes it way easier on your arms. It also makes it easier to use your weight against the pull of the kite. Gotta run now,be back later to discuss bars and handles.

You just got some excellent advice from one of the most experienced guys around. Glad you chimed in WELDNGOD! I have also considered ordering the PKD crossover bar, it would be a vast improvement over the Flexifoil FB bar I have. Also, I did not realize Ozone's Turbo bar is designed to make the brake lines usable...

I realize I'm still a relative newbie, but like many I want to prevent others newer than I from making the typical and sometimes physically painful newbie mistakes. This is a great forum, and I learn something new almost everyday I come around here!

One thing I forgot to mention , is why it is called a Turbo bar. The bar slides up and down on the center line. And as I stated earlier,if you pull it to you, it will kill the kite. However, if you pull it in slightly,you get that "touch of brake"turbo. Just like you do with handles when you put on just a touch of brake. You won't notice it flying static, it happens when you and the kite are in motion as one. Glad to help anyway I can guys.

Yep, I'm with Weldingod here. I fly all my fixed bridles on turbo bars and I cannot think of a time when I've needed to do something with the kite that could not be done with the turbo bar (haven't tried Scudley's reverse loop though!). The turbo bar is quite different from a standard flexifoil fixed bridle bar - and you pay a lot more for it to.

Despite Ozone's advertising of 'depower through brakes' it does not depower the kite. You can stall the kite by using brakes but that's not what I call depowering.

I've had Beamers, Hornets, Imps, Flows, Methods and a Blade V that have all flown really well on the turbo bar. And a Century II and Reactor II which which did not fly well. Neither the Century or the Reactor seemed to like being steered mainly by their brakes and were too easy to stall in turns. I also have a 9m Riot I've had on the bar a couple of times but that seems to feel 'jerky/clunky' for want of a better description and is much nicer on handles.

I can't think of reason you can't learn to fly on a turbo bar or depower or handles.... but I would tend to agree about learning on handles first.

Here's a vid I did a couple years ago when I wanted to find out how a fixed bridle flew on a depower bar Vs a turbo bar. The depower bar steers ONLY on brakes and you can see the kite starting to stall/luff and spin on some of the turns. The turbo bar transfers some of the steering input to the front lines via the pulleys - not sure how much....maybe 60/40 - you can see the steering inputs for yourself on the video - and this results in much smoother turning of the kite.

Remember - not all kites will steer well on the turbo bar. Either try before you buy or speak to someone who flies the same kite as you on whichever bar you want to buy. In the meantime, get as many miles as you can with your handles - you may well get so comfy with them and a harness/strop that you won't feel the need for a bar....

You seem like you feel that you absolutley must have a bar to ride ATB and to hook in. Neither is the case.

You can hook in with handles and a strop. After much time and money trying different bars this is what I ended up using. I did this before the introduction of the Turbo bar so I can't say much about that one. Accept that you will still give up some fine control to use the bar. NOTHING beats handles on fixed bridle. For what it is worth I hold my handles with tops together like a bar and brake turn like a turbo bar but that individual fine control can only happen with the handles.

Don't feel like you shouldn't be asking us questions . We want to help you + help you make the right choices.

I see the harness thing very different. I say get into a harness as soon as you safely can. It will extend your fly time and hours of fly time are what you need to progress. Only use it to rest up / walk upwind at 1st. As you get more comfortable you will stay hooked in for more and more stuff. I still unhook when jumping or pushing it. Money spent on a harness will be much better spent than money on a bar.

BR is spot on.........learn on handles, get a harness, helmet, and strop-- it!! Learning to fly on a bar is like taking your sister to Prom........just ain't right!!!