I was wondering if a pl arc would be a good choice as a first depower kite. The auto zenith seems like it would make learning easier by returning to zenith when the bar is let go. Another advantage would be they can smooth the gusty North Dakota wind. They are bridle-less so I can't make a mess out of them like i always seem to do with my other kite.

If arc's are a good starter kite what models and sizes should I go for? I have over 10 hours of flying my 4.5 pansh legend and probably 15-20 on my 3.7 nasawing. Is that enough practice to safely move to an arc or other depower kite? I plan on land and snow kiteing but i don't have a board yet. If an arc is a no-go for a beginer what kite would you recomend?

No, that sounds like a good idea - they're reasonably tough, easy to repair, teach you good skills about working it and how to use the lines to relaunch...

The Venom line are very popular as they're stable and not aggressive.

What would be a good starting size? The 10M venom has a projected area of 7m, 13 is 9.1, and the 16 is 11.3.

ARCs fly great and are very safe in gusty winds but setting up and tuning/launching/landing are hard to learn by yourself. If the kite isn't set up properly it will not fly right and you'll have a hard time figuring out if the cause is you or the kite.

If you have friends with ARCs or can get to an event like the wildwood buggy bash where there are people who can help you'll cut your learning time.

If you're totally on your own, I'd go for something that's easy to launch and land like the Ozone Access or HQ Apex.

I agree with Kamikuza, Venoms are great. Doesn't matter if it is a V1 or V2. My most used Venoms were 13 and 16 meters. Size depends upon your weight, wind and skill. The ARC calculator can help: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/wind_range.htm

Venoms are great kites and reasonably priced(usually!)
The 10m will be a relatively high wind kite(Comparable to a 3.5-4m Fixed bridle I would say).

I would say go for the 13m. I hear is the most versatile size but I have not tried one myself.
I started with the 16 and although it is powerful it, is pretty slow. The 10 will be fast and not quite as powerful. The 13 should be a perfect balance between the 2.

Arcs will freak you out by how big they are but if you get over it and actually fly them they are mostly gentle giants. It is harder than you think getting up the guts !

As mentioned ground handling can be a pain but you have to learn some time ? Once you get it , it's not so bad.

I agree 13m minimum even 16m. Smaller will require winds above 20 to perform . Add that to the scarey size and ????

Arcs to look for : Venom 1 or II , Synergy, Phantom?

Stay away from F arcs, Scorpian and Charger. These are a aggressive arcs.

Venom 13 was my first depower and its a very cool kite to landboard/snowkite with. I can get going well in 10mph and its manageable up to 25ish. Sweetspot seems to be 16-22 for me.

My Access has kinda taken over now as its more responsive and a bit more user friendly for solo missions and more transportable for taking backcountry. The depower in the bar throw is also more instant for coping with gusts.

I didn't like the larger Arcs i flew - 16's and 19s - I just found them super slow. Apparently the newer models are quicker though.

Bwa-hahahaha! I nearly #@%$#! in pants when I first downloop-turned my 19m Charger - ripped me outa my socks it changed direction so quickly! Begs to be looped, I tell you what!

If you go for a 16m, you'll be able to get the arc up in light winds and it'll fly around ok but won't try to kill you. And when you get better, in more wind, it'll do good stuff for you

Snake, Check out the PL Scorpion as I happen to have a like new 13 and the rare 10, truly works of art and they will teach you with minimal pain, water, land and snow they work great. $300 +ship for the 10 and $400+ ship on the 13

Thanks for all the info guys! According to the calculator a 16m venom will be good from 4-15 mph and the 13m venom will be good from 6-19. I found a 16m venom for about $250 with shipping. Is that a good deal? I also need a landboard (anyone got one to sell cheap?).

I have a really nice Ground Industries Flight board, like new. I want to focus on the buggy so PM me. I'm looking at $150 + shipping. I also have extra yellow cubes for the bionic trucks to throw in when I find where I put 'um.

Here it is, check the link. Bought from Tridude it is still in near mint condition. This is a fire sale price. I'm too old and only have access to grass, so it's buggy only for me now.

GI Flight ATB

Quote:

Originally posted by AnnieO Here it is, check the link. Bought from Tridude it is still in near mint condition. This is a fire sale price. I'm too old and only have access to grass, so it's buggy only for me now. GI Flight ATB

The link has been corrected above.
Snake, let me know- you'll have first dibs. If not and anyone else is interested, PM me before I change my mind on the fire sale price.

Quote:

Originally posted by Snake Thanks for all the info guys! According to the calculator a 16m venom will be good from 4-15 mph and the 13m venom will be good from 6-19. I found a 16m venom for about $250 with shipping. Is that a good deal? I also need a landboard (anyone got one to sell cheap?).

Ready to fly? Yeah, great deal!

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza Ready to fly? Yeah, great deal!

KO

250 is a good price for a Venom 13. Ready to fly would be better for you since the bar and lines will arrive already set up. I think you'd be able to get a RTF V13 for around $400-$500. Maybe cheaper.

Try to buy a bar and lines already set up for a Peter Lynn and used for a 12-16 meter kite. This gets you the right width bar. If you try and buy a Non-Peter Lynn bar and lines you'll have to get the right width and convert it to a long throw depower since PLs have a very long depower range.

Look here http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/ARCsetup_FAQ.htm for info on "Control Bars - Non Peter Lynn" and "clam cleat"

If you want Ready To Fly, want it right now, and want something more simple than an ARC to learn on, look at the Gin depower kites B-Roc has for sale. They are similar to an Ozone Apex. Search the sale section for ** Gin Yeti 6m & 4.5m depower foils **

If you do decide to get an ARC, get a battery powered leaf blower to blow it up before launching. Launching an underinflated ARC will frustrate the hell out of you. Once it's got the enough internal air presure it just wants to fly. Until then it will bow tie or stall or fall back to the ground or not climb and just piss you off.

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Originally posted by doneski ... If you do decide to get an ARC, get a battery powered leaf blower to blow it up before launching. Launching an underinflated ARC will frustrate the hell out of you. Once it's got the enough internal air presure it just wants to fly. Until then it will bow tie or stall or fall back to the ground or not climb and just piss you off.

Yeah, there's no reason to pile this under inflation issues on top of learning how to launch.

Also, if you go the Arc option, watch the how to video several times. You need to have the vision of a textbook launch burned into your brain when you hit the field.

Philip

ARC's are excellent first depowers. Legendary stablity, gust munching, huge sweetspot, and Autozenith allow the beginner to concentrate more on board handling and less about kite flying.

Launching an ARC is not difficult but only different. Most situations the wind will fill as needed.

I started on one of the first ARC's available in Canada way back (I was told it was a production prototype). All I had was a year of fixed bridle experience and a verbal description on the setup and launch. It was EASY!!

However, if you fly in turbulent or extremely gusty areas their ground handling for launch SUCKS!

Very well used kites tend to lose air quicker can can have more launch issues if you take too long to launch.

Would a 19m venom 2 be a good kite or is it too large? I would weigh about 125-135 pounds with a landboard.

Quote:

Originally posted by Snake Would a 19m venom 2 be a good kite or is it too large? I would weigh about 125-135 pounds with a landboard.

Not if the Venom comes with a free scrub board. That's " Too good to be true " .

Seriously now, I think a 16 or 13 will serve you a lot better. They will offer you a lot more wind range.

Buying an arc based on price alone is not the way to go.

For the record, snake, we're warning against buying from windwindwind if that is the venom you are looking at, that is the meaning of the post above.

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Originally posted by erratic winds For the record, snake, we're warning against buying from windwindwind if that is the venom you are looking at, that is the meaning of the post above.

That + the fact a 19m isn't the best place to start .

We do want you to get the right kite . 19m are slow and will limit the wind you can fly in. You will be waaaaaay too tempted to fly it in too strong of winds.

I have my second 19 Venom and weigh 225 lbs. It can move me around against my will in even the lightest winds if the wind isn't onshore smooth. Not the right kite for your weight....... Yet.

I had a v13 for my 2nd kite. I wasn't a fan of launching it (overall, but especially in gusty winds), but once it in air, it made life fairly easy and non-complicated.

With enough experience like yourself, I would say go for a v13 or a 10m low aspect depower foil (Ozone access, Hq apex, Flysurfer unity). If you go bigger, you are probably just increasing the difficulty of learning. 10m is such a great and versatile size it's worth having in the quiver sooner rather than later.

Would a Guerilla2 be a good arc?

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Originally posted by Snake Would a Guerilla2 be a good arc?

In it's day. They got much better from there.

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Originally posted by Bladerunner In it's day. They got much better from there.

So it's not a good first kite by todays standards? I'm asking because grigorib is selling his 13m Guerilla2 RTF for $400. The arc calculator said it range would be 8-21 mph.

I would hold out for Venom or newer at about that price point . + $50 for a newer kite such as Synergy.