Couldn't find a pure review post of the Phantom II so I'll start one here.

I ordered a 6, 9, and 12m on initial release. There was a Mfg issue with the 6 and i have a replacement in hand ready for a high wind day. The issues with the 6 should be all sorted now.

My 9 is still pristine and new, but I'm getting some hours on the 12. I've run it 2 Sundays in a row now. Today, I tightened the end straps halfway and the results were good. If I get behind a bit I can crank the bar around hard and this kite turns almost on a wingtip. The kite seemed less choked if I pulled the bar in past where it seemed optimal. It was as if there was some extra down deep that it was willing to give.

I did notice that sometimes if I wasn't really diligent about letting the bar out before one of the full speed downwind turns, the kite would tend to lay back too far in the window and the kite wouldn't go overhead for me to turn under it. I can adjust my technique on that and keep the quicker turning and enhanced power with the end straps halfway tight. Next session with this kite, I will go half tight on the center strap to see what the effect is there.

Today's winds were flaky with a forecast of 14. Sometimes it would go to almost nothing then in an instant it is blowing again. I had typical runs of 25-35 mph with a handful over 40 and 1 up to 45. Then I had a run with lots of room and I felt the wind come on strong. I kept bearing off downwind finding that angle where the buggy isn't straining against the kite but the whole system is just in sync and going fast. I hit 52 mph even on that run and it was very calm and low stress. The PII just sits there and runs where you point it. At the end of this run, the wind died or I ran into a lower wind area and the kite dropped back hard in the window where I was dragging it along (in the air) and slowing down. It was a bit unnerving when it dropped back so fast, but it kept pointing straight along with me.

I'm loving this kite and wondered what the top end was for the 12m. I thought maybe over 50 would be ok, but as easy as 52 was, I know 55 is possible and maybe some more. This makes me wonder what the top end is going to be with the 9m and oh my gosh, what will it take to strain the 6m?

:wee:

What color 6 did you get? I got the green/black. Can't wait for a high wind day on the lake bed...

I got another red/black like my first one. Not sure if it was accident or purposeful, but I really like the color. Same as my 12. My 9 is green/black.

the main thing that ive noticed about the 2012 phantom is that they build apparant wind really well. the faster you go the faster the kite wants to go.
as far as jumping goes, to get the best lift and float out of the kite you need to find the right trim point with the bar. it needs to be right on the edge of stalling and likes to be flown fast before you send it. to get the best float you really need to nail the redirect and you will boost and float nicely. 7mins 10 onwards in this video is me flying the 15m in high teens, low twenties wind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csW5-rNs7S0&feature=plcp

this isnt a completed video yet but have a look anyway............. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVRJEQQ-ou0

I had a high wind day on Friday with the Phantoms and wanted to share the results. Winds were forecast 18-28 with gusts to 38. When I arrived, winds were lightish so I launched the 12m. I was fine with it for awhile then the winds built to the point where I was in survival mode with it. While the wind was building I hit a new high speed (with the 12) at an even 55 mph. I can't believe the 12 can go that fast. In smoother winds it could have even more top end than this. I think I could pass 60 mph with it or who knows for sure with the right winds.

So, the 12 is too much and trimming it back only does so much with higher winds and that size kite up. I go back to camp, get out the 9 and the wind is still rising. I decided right before launch that maybe the 9 was too much as well and folded it back up. I got out my new 6m that replaced the original with the wobble issue. I ran this kite the rest of the day and was never overpowered and only got up to 50 mph with it. This tells me I'd have been fine with the 9 and probably would've broken 60 mph with it.

So I feel like I learned the lower limits on the 6 and got close to the upper limits of the 12 Friday. This leaves me with this big hole of opportunity to find what the 9m has to offer. Next good windy day, I hope to put it through it's paces and see what it is capable of.

I will say that the 6m does dance around quite a bit, but most of it's movement cancels out on its own. It needs a tap on the bar to correct sometimes but I never felt like it was going to spin around and go backwards which is my worst fear at speed. This movement could be attributed to the lumpy winds we had with lots of variability in speed. More sessions will tell whether this is the case. I originally had the vpc on the next to tightest knot away from the kite with all straps loose. Later I adjusted it to last knot on vpc and half tight on the end straps. I can't say it made the movement any worse or better. Next opportunity with the 6m I will go full on the tip adjusters and then half on the center adjuster to see what that does. Beyond that, I intend to try it with straight bridles to see if that calms things down without losing performance.

Any tips from anyone ahead of the curve on arc tuning?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobmuse/8176451523/ by BMuse1,

Awesome Bob! New personal best, I admire that you keep trying to push the envelope. Must be the new wheels Take care.

Thanks Cheddar. That was not my personal best speed, but was my fastest run so far with the 12m Phantom II. I try to do something more or better every time I go out. If not that, then I try to learn something about my equipment or technique. There will never be nothing to learn in this activity.

Very interesting and imformative report B. It's interesting that you're suprised the 12m goes as fast as it does whereas all my best speeds have been on the 12m Arcs, Either Phantom, Charger or Syn.

For me the 12m provides the right amount of borderline OP but has the depower available that I can use to get back upwind and then let it all out for another attack run.

I agree, the 6m has some twitchy behavior but what can we say? It's a 6m after all. But for sure the 6m Ph2 is much more stable than even an 8m Ch1. I agree she's very got at self adjusting.

I don't know if I can be of much help with tuning techniques. As always my preference has been to keep all straps loose all the time. I prefer the knot closest to the wing on the VPC and I like to vary my rear line tensions via pigtails but in general I like a line tension that is pretty well powered 99% of the time with the ability to produce good tail stall if need be. I find with the throw on my Navi bar I can get away with it and still have gobs of depow if needed.

I haven't flown the 9m much. Not a production one at all. The 9m I was on during the testing phase was awesome, maybe the sweet spot as far a versitilty in speed go. Aaron Rudeboy Saude has it now. He's had it on the water a little I think.

12m is the fast bird for me historically. Sometimes I wish I had something a little bit bigger and a little higher AR so I don't need to be in winds 40+ to get the good speeds. We'll see what Pepijn comes up with but for now the Ph2 is awesome. I think you're gonna go nuts on the 9m.

I will say this about tuning. If you crank all the straps up to the max she flies very much like a Charger IMO.

Keep us up to date with your feedback. :wee:

Ok, maybe I need to try each of the kites with all straps loose. Might help it slip through the air a little easier.

Remember Chris, buggies even on the drylake can't lock in an edge as hard as you can. Maybe I'm still growing on flying overpowered. I'll gain confidence with time but really felt I was easing into survival mode instead of hammer down mode as the winds increased that day. I can't imagine having another 20 mph available to me with the 12.

Riding tomorrow, but winds are only going to be 15 gusting to 21. It will just be happy cruising time on the 12. Might even give the 13 Venom a run. And to be really well powered, I've seen that 4.5m Vapor leering at me from the kite bag. :ticking:

I've been remiss in not throwing in my 2 cents into the Phantom II review threads--it's time to make amends. I have only a 15m, but it's been getting a lot of air time.

The P2 is to me a very forgiving kite. On one of my sessions I parked it against a fence and left it there for 30 minutes or more. The winds were just strong enough to keep it plastered on the fence, but after the long break it had clearly lost a lot of air. I hooked in and pulled it off the fence expecting to stall it on the ground to try to top it off. I didn't know if it would work or not, but I wanted to try. I never got a chance. Before I could trim it to stall the kite took off. It was visibly baggy, but it flew and controlled well. It was so low on air it took several sweeps across the sky to top it off.

The kite wants to fly. On a recent beach trip I crashed it on the dunes twice. The kite held it's shape while I slowly worked it off the sea oats. I was barely clear of the dunes as the kite tipped maybe 10 degrees above horizontal and it lept into the sky. It did this both times. It's quite forgiving on launch.

One day I got to explore the upper limits of the wind range. I was flying inland on grass with winds of 15mph gusting to 25 mph. 20 mph was fine, but 25 was a bit crazy. I got pulled out of the seat twice, relanding more or less in the seat both times. Both times I had let the kite get too high overhead. When I quit that session I let the kite go to zenith as the gust ramped up. Fully depowered the kite was threatening to loft my 165lbs. I'm a BFC so I pulled the safety.

On the note of the safety system, I have some doubt the flag out line is long enough for the 15m P2. I fly this kite on a P2 Navigator bar and line set. I couldn't tell you the bar size in cm, but it is long. Twice I have flagged the kite and both times the kite mostly flagged but maintained a J-shape. One of the events was pretty well controlled. I don't recall any line wrap and yet I got an incomplete flag out. I'll throw a tape measure in the car for the next trip so I can get some hard data, but my limited data suggests a small problem.

I'll see if I can get some more flight test data soon.

Philip

I totally get it B. you're right the buggy is going to drift more than I do for sure. I think your on the right track tho and your assessment of being a little on the cautios side is probably pretty accurate and in my opinion warranted. I'm all for easing into rippin' on a new wing for sure. But the thingabout your post that really piques my attention here is your willingness to fall back on the ol' staple Vapor FB wing. See, for me FB=trouble, they make me nervous. I bet the 9m would totally be able to replace that Vapor if you gave it a chance. PA on the 9m has got to be about 5ish right, depows down to about 3.5mish maybe? (just pulling these estimates out of my backside with some expirience thrown in)

Phil's right man, the top end on these Phantoms is pretty rediculous and I think it's a great kite to get used to being OP'd on. It's just a matter of time in the saddle and getting a feel for it and the whole sheetable/depow ballancing act. Once you do tho you'll be able to find that sweet spot and you'll be KILLING IT.

Seriously, you'll be killing it. I didn't make that up.

Feyd, I took your advice today and went all loose on the 12m. Wow, made a HOOJ difference in directional stability and still hit 52 mph in winds that probably didn't get much more than low 20s. I felt like I went fast but was a bit surprised at how comfortable the speed was with the kite just sitting there. That should make a nice difference in the smaller sizes as well.

As for the Vapor, we didn't have enough wind for the 2.7, Wexler was flying our 3.4m HQ Prodigy and the winds were too much for my 4.5 Vapor. You would be surprised at how stable the Vapors are in smoothish winds. Now make it punchy stuff that is varying 10-15 mph and you have a tiger by the tail. The Vapor runs so far up in front, you get more speed out of it for the amount of pull you get. Ruud at XXtreme actually tweaks his buggies a bit if the rider will be running vapors mostly because of the real difference in pull angle.

The next day we are out there and its really cranking, I want to run both the 9m PII and 2.7 Vapor to compare the difference. I figure it is capable of 65+ mph. 6m shows up in there somewhere.