I am thinking about trying some kite surfing next spring/summer (taking a lesson and try it out) and currently I have a snapshot 1.9 and a Quantum stunt kite.
Now I am looking for a step up both to get more of a workout but also to really learn how to handle a 4 line kite as a training for potential kite surfing.
The kites I have looked at primarily are:
Ozone Octane (3 or 4m)
Prism Tensor (3 or 4m)

Also looked at a HQ Hydra 3.5 and Peter Lynn Hornet but somehow the two above just looks better to me.
Another one I just saw recently was HQ Scout II but that one is completely unknown to me.

I want to have them with a bar since that is what I would use if I started kite surfing.
Not interested in bugging and since I live in Texas snow is also out of the question. Winds here are usually 6-15mph.

Any advice on my two top choices above or would you recommend something else?
I looked at the Flexifoil 3.5 as well but with a bar it would get quite expensive and I got advice that it was not the best for training.

I am looking for a good quality kite that I can have for a while and travel with, including taking to the beach the few times I go there.

Appreciate your advice, in particular if I should go for a 3 or 4M but of course also on what kite!

Give Dino at Dakitez a call. I think he sells all of those you list. Octane looks good and you can't go wrong with Ozone.

I own the hydra and like it well enough. It will do a little better in gusty winds because it will hold it's shape better. Ozone and peterlynn quality is great but I have no experience with the octane or hornet. I don't know anything bad about the prism. Overall I would say they are all pretty equal kites except the hydra. It might be enough to body drag a little in high winds but you won't of course kiteboard. All of the kites will spank you hard in too much wind but 6-15 should be perfect.

About 3 vs 4, how much do you weigh? I would lean towards 4m if you are heavier than 180 especially since you have a 1.9m

If you ever dunk your kite the only one that will be able to fly right away will be the hydra. All others will have to dry out. I don't know if that is enough to warrant the hydra either.

Forgot to add I weigh about 185lbs...

Another vote for the Hydra 3.5m.

I used mine to landboard and body drag.

Looks like you can even use one to sled downwind

Ok, I have decided on the Tensor, now the only question is 3 or 4 m version.
Really like the combination of bar and handles.
Any advice on the 3 vs 4m? My winds are usually 5-15 with most days being 7-10mp, at times going up to 12.

Thanks!

Honestly, as a medium sized guy and you already have a 1.9 I would probably go with 4m for your winds. If you were maybe 150lbs or less I would say the 3m.

Hi, i'd like to tag team onto the thread if I might as it asks exactly the questions I'm asking myself. I'm 60, newly retired and looking for a new sport that is both technically interesting and physical. A former ball player I weigh about 350lbs 6'5" and live in Sonoma Co, Ca.. I'll be usig this at the ebach mostly but do have some big ope areas locally.

Dakitez has a few Prism 5m's available at a very decent price that I'm contemplating as an entry level kite but there is also a great deal or two to be had on entry level depowers. At this point I'm simply looking for a kite with good flight characteristics and some pull. Given my size I obviously I don't expect a 5m to boost me (and not particularly interested at being boosted/launched at this time as this is all new to me). Open to suggestions for consideration.

I would still start with a 4m fixed bridle kite. You could start with 5m with your weight but you will be limited to lighter winds. More than I could, but possibly not as much as you think. What are your average winds?

If you are sure you want a depower kite then it can be done. I think you might have a little frustration with the complexity of it. One simple bit of advice might help. Start in light winds and fly with the bar pushed out. Pulling in the bar will slow and kill the kite in light winds but light winds will help keep you from getting hurt. I understand that you weigh more than me. I really don't think that matters. either the fixed bridle kite will generated enough energy to be pulled out of your hands or pull you over. When I have wakeboarded I have never been yanked from neck deep to 10 feet in the air by a boat. That has happened several times to me with a kite. If you are going to go depower first I would have to know your wind ranges before recommending a kite.

A fair enough request...I'll check some historic weather data and with some some shops in Marin County. Probably give DaKitez a call as well...no one up here to ask questions of.

If you're going to static fly it, I would stay clear of the depowers - they're just a little slow and uninteresting to fly compared to fixed bridles.

The bigger the kite, the slower it is too - I would rather fly a zippy 3m in 15mph than a 5m in 10mph. And don't think a 3m won't give you a workout!

For something that's a hoot to fly static, I'd look at an intermediate 3 - 4m kite. Blurr, Method, Viper, Core, Buster, Toxic. Any of which will give you a hell of a good workout and are all quality kites.

Now John, I have to ask, was that your youtube video of an Apex 5m? quedecree? Because that video is what got me going on a depower and an Apex 5m!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bv15evn-gM

If not, well I have to say is thats the kind of static flying I would truly love to do. If it was yours, well thank you! I will keep your advice well in mind as I continue to evaluate all aspects of my first kite.

EDIT: Lol,Now I'm sure it was yours, your comments on the YT video refelct yours here as well. Consistency is a good thing!

Welcome.

5m is a pretty large kite in FB ( tensor ) and small in Depower ( apex ).

If you are out for simple static flying fun then I suggest 3m FB on handles. The tensor is nice with the combo handle / bar package but you will end up using it with handle set up. %m FB is actually pretty large and you will be overpowered in some pretty light winds. 3m allows you the largest wind range static.

A depower costs more + you require a harness to fly it properly. A fun way to fly but depower really shines when you are in motion.

Indeed BR, I'm coming to that same conclusion...between checking posts here I have been devouring what info I can and checking out used and closeout pricing. The Tensor 3.1 is really standing out at this point with still a slight inclination toward the Apex 5m...comment about uses and motion are valuable...speaking of value one of the things that really stands out in the Tensor systems is the bar to handle conversion and the 3 line configuration. John Holgate (still asleep in Australia at this time no doubt) made some recommendations but I'm also interested in seeking your opinion as well; Do you have recommendations for other 3 to 4m kites with or without similar packages/configurations as the Tensor? Was the marketting team at Tensor ahead of the competition with their kite package here?

ur gonna get a 5 at some point......get a 3 now u will not regret it.....3's are so much fun and will take your knowledge to where u need to be the fastest (can fly more).....dont get hung up too much on what company....so far i've liked every foil i have owned..even the ones i haven't particularly liked

Ab,

Pretty much there...some kites are constructed of better materials (and cost more) some are constructed using lesser materials (still plenty adequate) but are more complete as a package. At this point I'm looking at a 3.1m Tensor, I like the recommendations I've been seeing, the kite itself, and the 3 line configuration package they offer which allows for handles and an Oh @%#$^! line. Found a year end clearance price that is very sweet and I belive thats where its at for the moment...there is always a used kite sale and I'll keep my eye peeled for that first larger depower.

Quote:

John Holgate (still asleep in Australia at this time no doubt)

Yawn....sounds about right!

The 5m Apex is probably the most stable kite I own. In gusty inland conditions, it is my goto kite. It's a piece of cake to fly one handed while filming. It is an excellent, stable buggy engine. To fly static, it's a bit slow and well....er...boring.

In the buggy, I want something that I don't have to concentrate on and just about flies itself so that I can worry about other things...like relaxing and taking in the scenery. But if I'm static flying, I want to have some fun with the kite - I don't want to be constantly fighting the kite which is why I prefer static flying a smaller kite.

And four line handles all the way for static flying - they allow you to do anything you want with the kite, they're cheap, compact and standard and if you want to take the load off your arms, then a a strop/pulley & harness is easily done.

I've never flown a Tensor, but they seem to be pretty well regarded and really, a kite from Prism, PL, Flexifoil, Ozone, PKD, HQ, Zebra are all good quality and will be good buys.

A larger depower later down the track will be good if you're looking to try a little jumping - go 9 - 12m. And not the Apex for jumping - my 5m lets me down with a pronounced thud! Even the 7.5m has very little float. Frenzy's are good for that as are some of the Arcs (which I've only flown briefly).

So far, the kite I have enjoyed most for static flying is the 3m Method. It's smooth, fast and responsive and pretty much a joy to fly. Works nicely with a turbo bar when buggying but there's no advantage in using a bar for static flying that I've found.

Well thanks to all, John, Abs, Bladerunner and Stetson. Every reply I received had a gem piece of info that went into the mix. I ended up splitting the difference both from a size and configuration standpoint by purchasing a slightly larger FB kite...a Tensor 4.2. This choice was preceded by a few phone calls to some manufacturers this morning and a lunch time call to a "local" dealer (across the Valley) here in California. Dino at DaKitez spent the better part of an hour and a half on the phone asking questions and listening to what I knew and wanted to do based on where I intended to fly and how I wanted to fly. A model year end price and a virtual handshake sealed the deal. I'd like to also thank Big Mike for his interest and diligence exchanging emails with me over simialr topics. Both dealers are truly interested in seeing you make good choices.

I have to say that the Prism Marketting and Engineering folks are really in sync with what a brand new flyer is interested in. They understand that a tyro owner may want a bar for a few hours of orientation flying only to see the bar jettisoned for the handles shortly thereafter. The r2f packaging is great.

Other than perhaps slapping my old Vietnam era pot on my head, some gloves and an oxygen mask in the highly unlikely offchance I get boosted to stratospheric heights, I'm good to go! Really looking forward to next weekend in SoCal at Torrance Beach. Hmmmm..I suppose I ought to check the parks dept and see if they have any regs in place. I wouldn't want Johnny Roller to make an appearance and throw a 60 YO kid in the slammer for felony kite flying or something. At least not in front of the grandkid...The winter mornings there (without a storm on the horizon) are tyically mild breezed with wind picking up through the morning and peaking in the midafternoon. Got a small Dwyer wind speed indicator to calibrate myself and a note pad make a few flight log entries... I'm simply jacked!

Tensor is the only kite I know of that has the bar / handle combo from the factory.

If you like the idea of 3 line and plan to move to water a Hydra is one to look at as well. You can take the Hydra out in the water and relaunch if you crash. You can practice body dragging with it in stronger winds.

Sounds good to me, BDX - let us know how you go.

Tippin a VB in your direction John...unless youre a 4X kind of guy....and Blade thanks I certainly eyeballed that puppy...

It is interesting seeing Prism pop up in these discussions. Has anyone with experience flying more advanced kites flown a Tensor? How do they compare to other entry level foils?

Personally if anyone wishes to get into power kiting I would recommend getting a kite from a manufacturer who also makes the type of kites you eventually wish to fly. That way you get a feel for the quality and characteristics of the kites that they make, and you then have some experience with that manufacturers kites when you are deciding on your next purchase, for good or bad.

As for the handles and bar combined, I don't see the point. Sure it appeals to people who haven't flown before, but learning to fly on handles isn't exactly much more difficult, if you ignore the brakes it is essentially the same. I would prefer some handles that are designed specifically as handles.

Good point Dembones.
I think the bar handle combo is a bit gimicky. Where I think it is good is allowing a beginer stuck on wanting a bar to see how much better it flies in handle mode.
Your point about starting with Prism meaning you need to move brands to move into true engines is valid.

Interesting DB and BR. As to the bar/handle combo being gimmicky I can see your perspectives. We seem to agree it's not entirely useless. Bones' comments about providing better handles did give me pause. Were the Tenbsors missing some important feature? I went back to look at a variety of handles and frankly I couldnt see a lot of differences between other trainer handles, the tensor's, and some more noteworthy brand kites. I think the bar/handle combo is simply an elegant solution of providing a secure entry step to handles. I would also like to see an experienced flyers impression of the Tensor line.

I'm intrigued by Bones' recommendation regarding 1st kite choice; or at least the choice of Tensor who has only a limited selection of power kites. I'm not so certain it makes that much difference at an entry level as long as its sized appropriately, of decent construction, and flies well. Its my first kite. I get what's being said but it just doesnt/didnt click for me. I mean as a first time buyer interested in getting into the sport and test the waters why would I want to spend more money on a brand name for an entry level kite? Are they really indicative of another model in the mftr's line? Does the recommendation bear more weight if one knows what they want to do down the road?

Left to my own devices I judged that Prism has a good reputation, informal comments indicate the Tensors fly well, are of good manufacture, and are backed by a dealer network that is entusiastic about the product. I spent about a week reading, reviewing, emailing and calling various dealers and manufacturers before I pulled the trigger. After all was said and done I decided that better known products were similar in function, but pricier. The Tensors got me to the same place and were a better value.

I'd submit that price point is weighted far more heavily than manufacturer in most first time buyers. I dont mean to say buy the first cheap rag that comes your way. That's not what I'm talking about. It's overall value. Given overall value I'm not sure I would buy a Pansh, Lynn or Ozone for my first kite, even if I wanted one of their other larger kites down the road. I recently watched a side by side comparison of material and construction quality between newer Pansh and HQ kites on YouTube. The Pansh proponent made a strong case. The Pansh was impressive.

Would I spend more on my first kite because I might consider one of their larger speciality kites in the future? As a first time buyer personally I dont think so. However, I will definitely consider one if the hobby sets with me. They and others, are beautifully made and designed.

Just about everyone here has quite a mixed bag of kites from various manufacturers; few, if anyone here (sponsored flyers?) own one kite brand exclusively for their various interests. Was your second kite of the same mftr? (Now theres and interesting question...) I'm just not sure that purchasing ones first kite from a company with a larger catalog is necessarily an indication of things to come on several levels. Its like declaring brand loyalty before you even know anything. I realize this was DemBones personal recommendation, I'm not dissing it, I respect it. I'm simply expressing my own thoughts as a first time buyer who doesnt know where I'll be going with this. Someone who knows where they want to go with kiting may have a diffrent perspective and that may be the basis for the difference of opinion here.

I think this has more to do with 'track record' than anything else. The Tensor is Prism's first ? commercial, serious 4 line power kite and as such, the company doesn't really have a track record in this area. Which is not to say that there is anything wrong with it - I haven't heard anything bad about it at all and I have a Snapshot which I really like.

Pansh have a dubious track record. (from reading lots of forum posts) In the past, their kites have been built to a price point and quality was well below Ozone, HQ, PL, Flexifoil, PKD etc however it would seem Pansh are getting better by all reports and now seem to manufacture pretty good kites.

The other companies mentioned have been making power kites for a long time of excellent quality and are known and trusted. My first power kite was an Ozone Imp Quattro 2.5m - it's been bashed by me while I was learning and several friends also over the last three years, subjected to getting wet, flying it in 30 knots and dragging it through thistles and sheep poo. And it's still in pretty good shape and I'm happy to hand it to anyone wanting to give it a go. THAT's why I would stick to a known brand with a proven track record. That and a good back-up network - ie: local dealers who can make repairs or deal with warranty issues (never had one).

Is there a big difference between similar style kites in the other brands ?....I would say no. Some will fly a little faster than others, have a slightly wider window, some will create a bit more power and some will be prone to the occasional luff - but I'm only talking 10-20% difference in low aspect kites - at least those that I have flown.

Once you start comparing intermediate or race kites to low aspect kites then you will see huge differences. ie: The 2.8m Century II that I recently sold had at least twice the power of my 3m Ozone Flow. It was a completely different beast to fly. And it outperforms my 4m Method in the bottom half of the wind range.

But, I think you've done exactly the right things and by all accounts, the Tensor should be as good as the other brand's low aspect kites and while they may not have a track record in four line power kites, they are still a long standing manufacturer of kites with a large dealer network. Damn nice looking kite too!

Excellent analysis. Another aspect to take into account and one that I suspect is largely the basis for DemBones opening comment. Interesting comment about Pansh's history John. Shows what I know lol! ...As new kid on the block I'll offer to wash the dishes.