Here's a question I've been pondering a bit lately. Maybe it should have gone into the Flying Techniques section, but the answer could be snow specific.

If you go out with a buddy and you both have a kite up, is there any good way to help each other land? With foils, that is. Flysurfers, if you want to be specific.

I've mostly kited solo, and I can land my pulse on the FDS, but it can easily result in a tangle, or at least a minor annoyance. Having a helper at the edge of the window would make things so easy, but if you both have kites up, I don't see any obvious way of helping one another. Seems that one person has to land and secure kite solo, or one person has to get into an iffy situation either flying two kites, or flying one while grabbing another near the ground.

Any thoughts?

Alex

Are you thinking in higher winds where you perhaps couldn't just back-stall the FSers to the ground? I've rarely NEEDED a catch on my foils but we don't get huge winds very much.

i've never had an LEI but i've always heard it LEIs that one really benefits with assistant to land/launch.
i've always had FSers and fixed bridals and never 'required' assistance to launch/land static/buggying/skiing.
for FSers i just land it(in window so it's ready for launch) by pulling on brake lines (9 times out of 10 i land this way). or steer it right out of window (sometimes it goes upside down though and may require a wee bit extra effort to launch). or i let it flag out on the safety (i rarely do this but i don't often fly in the upper/upper end of wind range).
once in a while i will just grab a couple/few kites and leave buggy/skiis at home and just static fly the kites that way i'm really aqainted and re-aqainted with kites and their quirks.
Paul

I have seen and read the option where one kiter flies at zenith and the other brings the kite down to the lower edge of the window (near the ground) and the kiter with the kite still at the zenith will walk over and secure the kite for the other. This can be used to launch or land in a tandem situation. TBH, I can't really remember where I saw this so take my advice with a bucket/sandbox full of salt.


Keep in mind this was suggested for LEI's. It may not be a great idea since the FS don't have the rigid structure of a LEI and might be a bit of a pain to secure while attached to a kite. I'm not sure I would want to try this because it seems like a risky situation to me. :eureka: I have always used foils and I find the back stall the best option, but I have never kited in the upper edge of the kites wind limit.

I kite solo a lot when I kite ski and I hated my pulse II on the ice. I added a landing line to assist in securing it but since it never delfated like a foil it held a lot of power on the ground (with little friction for me to resist the pull) and I really didn't like landing it on the FDS as that can result in tangles or popped internal tabs/ribs. Poor winter handling / securing abilities on ice was one of the main reasons I sold it.

Just do what you can to land at the side of the window and secure it fast in a lull. Good luck.

I've never needed a catch either. Mostly flown solo so far. I use the FDS quite a bit, but maybe I should work more on the back stalling. A landing line might help. I just know that everyone says it's best to have assistance when landing a FS in higher winds, and thought there might be some way of doing it with two guys, each on a kite.

Paul- you say you sometimes just fly it out of the window? Do you immediately run over to it and secure it? I fly the 13m pulse, and maybe it's because it has such a thick profile, but it always seems to roll around unless you have it pretty much straight down wind of you.

A-san, put kite at edge of the window. Tip close to ground.
B-san, fly kite with skill! Walk to A-san's kite. Grab tip and hold.
A-san, walk downwind and let kite flag out then haul ass to grab the kite from B-san.

Do the same for LEIs but grab the LE and just hold it, letting it go into the smilie position when the tension goes out of the lines.

Key point is for the grabber to not do anything more complicated than just hold the kite - let the lander do the running around.

... you can do the reverse for launching too.

Quote:

Originally posted by saskalex I've never needed a catch either. Mostly flown solo so far. I use the FDS quite a bit, but maybe I should work more on the back stalling. A landing line might help. I just know that everyone says it's best to have assistance when landing a FS in higher winds, and thought there might be some way of doing it with two guys, each on a kite. Paul- you say you sometimes just fly it out of the window? Do you immediately run over to it and secure it? I fly the 13m pulse, and maybe it's because it has such a thick profile, but it always seems to roll around unless you have it pretty much straight down wind of you.

i'll add a couple of things...
i guess it's a matter of just finding what works and going with it... most snow kiters here are foilers and most of those are FSers. even in large groups most guys i see do not 'require' assistance. i mean if a guy is standing right close to where another is landing the kite...sure he'll grab it most of the time but it's just being friendly.
i've had to run for a kite a time or two but not very usually.
i mostly do this...
land a kite in prime window by back stalling(pulling brake lines)...hold brake lines until the rest break/breather is done then go again.
i can simply let go/unhook of everything and run like hell for it before it flies/tumbles away or i can simply keep hold of the brake line(s) and walk to the kite (hand over hand on the brake line(s) to sand bag a tip or put it away.
if it's really windy and i'm done with kite i'll "gently" land the kite nose down (if i have a weak, or sometimes no, means of securing kite/lines) and walk to kite (again holding a brake line or both). this means if a gust hits it will only want to drive kite into ground and not lift kite up and pop it free and does not pull hard on the kite line(s) in my hand(s).
i don't often fly the kite out of the window "to land" because i of course lose power and more... importantly... control and kite may fold/fall/bowtie or whatever or i might have to quickly dart backwards which aint so easy to do in a buggy or with skiis on in a foot of snow.
i will fly kite near to the edge of window for a breather.

We NEVER assist each other with landing, we just land. I suppose it's because when I learned to fly I didn't even know that people assisted each other and just figured out how to solo land everything.

When I first went to a place where everyone assisted everyone it just seemed really complicated to me. We fly Arcs, Flysurfers and Open cell foils here and everyone just lands themselves. I've got a proto LEI to play with and I intend to figure out self landing on that as well. I'm not against getting help but in general it's just not practical. When we ride we can be miles apart and waiting for an assistant can be a while. Also if I have an issue and I'm by myself I have to be able to take care of things solo.

The Flysurfers guys here all tail stall to land and secure the backlines to keep from launching, same with the open cells like HQ Apexa and Oz Frenzies etc... We back stall our Arcs and then pivot on a wingtip SLOWLY and allow the kite to clamshell then secure the flagline just in case. Usually we can backstall and secure the bar in backstall and let the kite site there.

The best way to self land is as much a matter of choosing you spot as it is your technique. Land in a wind shadow and life is easy peasy.

Here's and example where we use wind shadow. The guy on the Flysurfer landed behind the pennisula and I landed in the same windshadow I launched from. The shadow was caused by the treeline on shore.

http://youtu.be/HoIuhcHYuIA

Out in the open where there is no wind shadow and you want assited landing with two wings in the air then it comes down to handling skill and trust. Being able to stall or edge fly the wing to you partner and them being able to fly and grab you wing without issues takes a bit of practice. We fly in close quarters a lot and it's not too bad when you get used to being near each other.

Flying arcs makes life easier in those situations because auto zenith allows us to let go of the bar and have our hand free for anything we need. Assuming the wind isn't too punchy.