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Author: Subject: 18m Phantom, 16 or 19m Venom II for low wind?
Bladerunner
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[*] posted on 7-12-2012 at 06:26 PM
18m Phantom, 16 or 19m Venom II for low wind?


I know the 19m Venom II has a good reputation as for flying early. I wonder how the 16m performs as an ULTRA low wind engine ?

Does the 19m outperform the 16 in low wind by a great amount ?



Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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mdpminc
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[*] posted on 7-12-2012 at 07:13 PM


Quick answer; 19 will not significantly outperform the 16. Beside, Venoms are NOT know for being low wind engines, period.

I the past 4 years I had the opportunity to use both style of Venoms, V1 and V2 in 19 and 16m sizes (~205lbs rider).
Here are my personal findings (other Arc users can perhaps dis-agree) :

On land (ie. snow)
Bottom wind range I found 19m had a bit more then the 16. But not significantly more and I had found with the speed of the 16m, I could easily compensate by working (sine) the kite to achieve the same pull as 19! Especially when flown on 30m lines

On water (using OR 150 Mako)
At the bottom of its range I found 19m too slow to turn to build enough board speed so I always ended up sinking on every up stroke and was getting frustrated as I could not go upwind to save my life, so it was mostly downwinders in really low wind).
Just for a curiosity I happen to have my 16m with me and gave it a try on the same day.
Voilą
In the same wind, 16m was significantly faster with its turning speed so it allow me just enough speed to build the board speed and go upwind.
since then I never used 19 in low winds on the water again (consequently sold them both)

Larger "door" style board might have been enough with the 19m, but overall I found this:
NO FUN under 8knts on land and NO FUN on water under 12knts with these flying pillows :-)



Foils: Phantom2 15, Aurora 19 custom, F-1200, S-840, JN Luis 10, JN Randas 8
Inflados: Ocean Rodeo: Flite 17.5m, Rise LW15m, Razor 12m and 10m, Prodigy 7m
Boards: Mako Duke, Mako King, 6'6" Bushman shortned to 5'8"
Land 'n snow: "Tsar" RC2000 Nobile, 150 SantaCruz TT with IceBlade, 159 Mongoose Grand Slalom
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[*] posted on 7-12-2012 at 07:24 PM


Interesting ?
I have no venom experience but thought the 19 competed with the 18m Phantom as far as low end goes ?

What I am really about here is that I am trying to help Dirtslide make the right choice for his 1st arc for our typical 5kt winds. He is a very competent pilot so size isn't an issue. I am truly pleased with what I am getting out of my 18m Phantom and thought the 19m venom was another he should be watching for ?
I edited the post title to better reflect what I am looking for.



Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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[*] posted on 7-12-2012 at 09:39 PM


In general I would say I agree with mdpminc but I would say for my use on the snow the 19m has a bit better low end than the 16m. True you can work the 16m to make up the difference but for raw grunt the 19m has it beat. The 18m Phantom is pretty close IMO but too slow a turner compared to the 19m V2. But the 18m Ph1 will go up wind better and is uber stable.

For light wind arc go F-Arc. 12m pulls damn near a 19m V2 but better up wind and faster turn IMO.



Chris Krug-Owner @ Hardwater Kiting. Authorized Dealer of Ozone, Flysurfer, HQ kites.
www.hardwaterkiter.com 603-986-2784
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[*] posted on 7-12-2012 at 09:54 PM


Just by numbers the 16V has a similar projected area of the 18P.
I would expect the low end to be te same or a little better due to turning speed(reason why I havent bothered getting a 18P).

As far as 16V against the 19V I hear the 19 is just for heavier riders rather than lighter winds.



FB - Flexifoil: Rage 2.5 | Gin Tonkawa 3.1/5.4/8.7
DP - Peter Lynn: Venom 8/10/13/16, Phantom 12
TUBES - North EVO 7/9/11/13, Dyno 15/18
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BUGGY - Libre Truck II, Libre Full Race
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[*] posted on 8-12-2012 at 10:24 AM


Consider Synergy 19m or even Charger 15m.

I have not flown the Charger 15m personally, but heard from others about a decent bottom end (not to mention the upper range :-) )

I did fly the 19m Synergy one winter and it was as fast as V2-16 with even better bottom then a V2-19m.

(end yes F-1200 kicks a..... if one can launch it without bow ties ;-), about F-arc depower, like Feyd said once to me F-arc depowers when it is dead flat on the ground, lol)



Foils: Phantom2 15, Aurora 19 custom, F-1200, S-840, JN Luis 10, JN Randas 8
Inflados: Ocean Rodeo: Flite 17.5m, Rise LW15m, Razor 12m and 10m, Prodigy 7m
Boards: Mako Duke, Mako King, 6'6" Bushman shortned to 5'8"
Land 'n snow: "Tsar" RC2000 Nobile, 150 SantaCruz TT with IceBlade, 159 Mongoose Grand Slalom
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[*] posted on 8-12-2012 at 11:04 AM


My 1st arc was a 12m Farc and I don't think it's what D'sliddy is after. He has the pilot skills . He's just not after that kind of lift.

I sold my 15m Charger and kept my 18m Phantom . To me , it is a much better low wind kite in our clean winds. It has a place before my 15m Syn' kicks in.

I keep getting mixed messages on the Venoms. Can it be said that they need that minimum wind but will start to perform at about 5kts ? Like the Phantom ?



Kites: 2.5m Profoil , Quadrifoil XL kitesurfer, NPW 5 Danger.
Flexifoil: 1.7m Sting, 4.9m Blade 3, 9m Blade 2.
Flysurfer : 19m Speed 2 SA, 7m Pulse
Peter Lynn :18m Phantom, 15m Synergy, 10m Synergy, 1200 Farc, 460 Sarc, 130 Tarc, 5m Peel, 4.2m , 6.4, 8.5 C-Quads, 3.5 LS2 single skin.

Rides: Flexi / P.L. Frankin'Buggy , Shaped + straight skiis, sand skis, Coyote blades. Core 95 ATB. RKB R2 ATB .

Ken (K2)
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[*] posted on 9-12-2012 at 12:37 AM


the 19 barely outperforms the 16, but the 16 is an overall more powerful kint my my opinion. The 19 is pretty gentle but the 16 is a beast. I've got a vII 16 and vI 19 that are up for sale/trade.



US503 - Manzanita, Oregon

Fixed Bridal: Flexifoil Sting 1.2, 1.7; Rage Acid 2.5m, 3.5m, 4.7m, 6m | Peter Lynn Vapor 11.2m, 16.1m | NPW 7m
Depower : Peter Lynn Venom 2 13m, 16m, 19m | Peter Lynn Phantom 15m | Flysurfer 2.5 SA 19m
LEI : Flexifoil Atom 7m, 9m, 12m; Mutiny 8m
Land rides : Libre Hardcore; Libre v-max; Peter Lynn XR+W | Rollerblade Coyotes! | Ground Industries AK Pro
Water rides : Slingshot Misfit 134; Ocean Rodeo Mako 150; North WAM! 5\'10

4 Sale/Trade: HQ M1 5m, Flysurfer Pulse 10, PL Venom 2 16m, PL Venom 19m

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