I've been wanting to post this request for a while. Even though this is primarily a buggy community, I know quite a few of you snowkite on the ice (some, faster than others ;-) ). I'd like to hear of your experiences of breaking through the ice...

- what were the perceived conditions of the ice?

- what were you riding (skis, board, etc.)?

- what happened and how did you get out (technique...)?

it happened this weekend to an anonymous rider here in QC

original version

http://www.kiteforum.ca/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6986

Google translate (let see if this makes sense This is not me. I received the text anonymously to post it on the local forum

here it goes:

March 3, 2013 on Lake of Two Mountains. I'm with a friend and we return to St-Placide Oka downwind. I chose to make the journey from the north side of the lake to the simple pleasure of the journey to St-Placide ice bridge one edge. My friend, uncomfortable with the proposed route, choosing instead to go through the middle of the lake. Amount in St-Placide, I have not seen any trace of water, especially around the lighthouse at Pointe-aux-Anglais, which is unusual but reassuring.

In return, all goes well until I reach the island Ritte which is just upstream and north of the narrow passage (pass or neck) between Hudson and Oka-Kanesatake. I decided to go under the lee of the island. I still have enough power in my sail and I keep moving. Suddenly the ice gave way as I went along. I find myself living water being thrown forward, breaking the thin ice in front of me about ten feet. Fortunately, both my skis were defeated by falling. What had hitherto been a very special became, in an instant, a descent into hell.

The feeling that I had arrived in the water is indescribable. One thing is certain, I have felt absolutely no cold. I wore underwear wool Morino, lightweight trousers and a jacket in Gore-Tex. The water pressure has ensured that all my clothes stick against my skin and combined with the adrenaline rush, helping to keep warm.

At this point, what do I do? I must swim. My two skis are defeated, I ski boots in the feet, I have a backpack, I do not think that at all, simply as I swim. I did not walk. I have mittens in hand then I begin to swim. Whenever I nagais, ice crumbled. Every beat of my arm projecting forward, I broke the ice in front of me. I finally reach a more solid ice. I slipped on the ice, but unfortunately it breaks again under my weight. So I keep trying to move forward and I cried. There was a fisherman from the Aboriginal community was off and he heard me but did not seem to react. I knew after he telephoned the emergency services. I continued to advance while breaking the ice until the ice is solid.

During this time, I tried to control myself and especially not to panic. I screamed for help as much as I could, thinking that nobody could hear me. The fisherman had come with his snowmobile staying away not to be in the same situation as me. I managed to pull myself up on the ice. I stayed in the ice water a good ten minutes by the fisherman. Once out of the water, I crawled several feet to make sure the strength of the ice. I got up and this time, the fisherman directed me to tell me the best place to go to avoid finding myself still in the water. I followed his directions to join him.

I found exceedingly exhausting to walk on the ice. Came in near the fisherman, he apologized for not being approached. I reassured him, thanking him for being there, for guiding me and it was not necessary that there is one more that is found in water. To reach the shore of the lake, I had to walk about 200 feet, 300 feet at most. At each step I took, I had a long and painful breathing, shortness incredible. But I felt no cold, except for frostbite on his right thumb.

The ambulance came and they came to my rescue. The lake, there was a wall about half a meter high. At this point, both legs were literally cut me, I was unable to rise. Paramedics hoisted me over the wall. Once on the ground, I was unable to walk the few meters that separated me from the ambulance. I finally made the trip by snowmobile. I think at this point, it must be a good twenty minutes, if not more, that I had fallen into the water.

Once in the ambulance, undressing, cover, direction of the nearest hospital (St-Eustache), press it. There was no question of going anywhere as I would have liked, ie at home, in the basement, I change quickly so that my wife is not aware of this history. In an emergency, immediate service: blankets warm and dedicated staff constantly with me. People ask me how I feel and talk continuously for not doze or sleep. It was important that I look at the nurse and I remain alert. I told him that I could not, I could not, that I should stop talking. I am very breathless. I wonder if I'm cold, I answered no. I feel that my body starts to vibrate a little. They take vital signs. The nurse continues to ask me constantly and I have to constantly watch. My body temperature is about 34 ° C (normal body temperature is around 37 ° C). Undoubtedly my temperature was taken when I boarded the ambulance, but I do not remember. I do not remember the exact time I arrived at the hospital, I believe about 17:30. I left around 20:30. My wife joined me dry clothes.

With hindsight, I draw some conclusions:

-I have not been careful in my choice of route or watch for signs that could indicate a thin ice sail with a buddy.
-It can call for help and assist to the extent it does not endanger himself, have worn a whistle mouth keep his mittens, they are palm remain attached to the kite.
-If it is possible for someone to be approached safely, he can pull strings to help get out of the water, do not panic, do not shout loudly screaming excessively, all available energy should be used to get out of the water or at least to stay afloat my cell phone I have not been unhelpful.
- He was in my clothes, so in the water, and my arms were busy swimming, a kite in long lines can serve as a buoy for someone in trouble as I was able to hang on, be alert to signs of apparent weakness of the ice stay away from the edge, islands and areas greyish it is possible to get by, I did.
-I do not know if I would have done if my skis remained attached to my boots.


It would be interesting and appreciated your comments and suggestions. Thank you.

sort of did once...not sporting/fishing.
was shooting(photo/real estate) a house on a harbor. thought i'd get a shot of the house beach front perspective all nice and unique winter landscape and all.
walked out on ice about 30 feet and took some shots. at some point one foot/leg went through to about knee deep(the water was well over my head i just did not fully go through).
scared the crap out of me cuz of what could of happened and i was by myself. the walk back to shore was a lot more interesting:frog:

Been through 3 times. None of which were much of a suprise.


- what were the perceived conditions of the ice? Late season, thick but weak snow ice. Well aware that we might go through and dressed and equiped accordingly.

- what were you riding (skis, board, etc.)? Skis, 215-222cm DH boards.

- what happened and how did you get out (technique...)?

The first time is described in this blog post.....

http://hardwaterkiter.blogspot.com/2010_03_01_archive.html

The main thing about going through the ice is to not panic.

Even if you aren't wearing a PFD or armor that floats your clothing can retain a lot of air for a few moments and can aid in keeping you afloat.

As Denis described, you don't even feel the cold at first.

This all said I've never gone through without a kite and I don't want to.

I've been lucky so far....haven't gone in the drink (yet), but have skied next to open water a couple times by accident. I've accidently stepped into enlarged holes late season while fishing and put a leg in a couple times but never a bonified fall through. I'm thinking it may just be a matter of time before it happens.

There's something to be said for that. If you're out on the ice a lot eentually you're likely to find a weakspot.

I've never gone through early season. We always get as much local info on an area we're looking at as we can, research the recent weather that it's had and only when we have a fair amount of intel we go out and check the ice first hand. This usually involves drilling tons of holes with our ice screws or chopping holes with an ice chopper. Early season we wear our PFDs. We also usually wear some type of protective armor which is mostly closed cell foam.

Even without the PFD I pretty much float like a cork which is good because I'm a sucky swimmer.

Ice is amazing stuff and I absolutely love riding it. But even if you take all the precaution in the world, eventually you're going to have a close call I suppose. Kinda like driving a car, you do it long enough eventually you'll have some type of incident. RIght now some of the locals are pushing to get as many miles in as they can before our season ends.
100 mile+ sessions every couple of days. It gives you a lot of opportunity to find weak spots in the late season ice.

I will say, I wouldn't event consider riding most late or early season ice if I rode open cell kites. When I go through I just let the Arc got to auto zenith and get myself situated for extraction. If I went through and an open cell went to the ice then the situation is a lot more dangerous.

(As told to my local kite crew earlier this season)


(short story)
After walking lake cove and chopping many holes away from shore(2 dozen+ !).....I went back to get my skates and kite. I was having fun staying in the cove on white ice on short, but fun runs. So nice to be out on ice.... even limited ice. Cold start single digits rising to teens.

3-9 mph winds w/ 6.5 nasa. Needed shorter lines w/ being in limited space and close to shore. Light cruising speed. I put kite down and did a little free skating too. This warmed me up very well..too hot for all my layers..but this heat would turn out to be a benefit a short while later.

After picking up the kite again, I wanted to expand my area a little(mistake!!)...... and I got careless and crossed a small black ice area between white ice that I had not checked out well, and even though I knew better....somehow I crossed over it blindly.

Anyway the ice broke and Yadda.....yadda...yadda.........police, fire, ambulance and...get ready....wait for it.... a HELICOPTOR later......everything was fine- Yadda, yadda, yadda....LUNCH TIME!

(Longer expanded story)
Okay. That’s not fair to to gloss over that part. I shouldn’t Yadda,yadda such things. I’ll start again from when the ice cracked.

So I heard the cracking right after I realized the ice I was staring down at looked WAYYY too thin:o..... and down I dropped into the water . How deep was it? I did not touch bottom-and I wasn’t going to try and completely submerge to find out how deep. The water actually felt warm and almost... uhmmm.. refreshing. Absolutely not cold in it. Hollow synthetic clothing and a just slightly overheated body to start- was why I was comfortable. Adrenalin? Maybe..but I was fairly relaxed... even though my arm had dislocated in the fall through. so warm...maybe I should join the E.Street Brownies(a 'polar bear' club)...? And I’m skinny!

I was right near the edge of thicker white ice where I fell in. So I smashed in about 6 feet or less of the thin black ice...to get to edge of white thicker ice and pushed up my torso up over edge onto surface using my good and dislocated arm both. A little break dance style ‘rocking chair’ and pulling got my legs out and onto surface. No rescue ice tongs necessary or deployed. Out of water in 60 seconds. Skated away in self rescue to shore all the while pulling my now wet kite along(I’m not leaving my kite!!)....luckily no line stuck on broken ice edge......

In The mean time I had heard some voices calling from shore(popular walk around lake in town).. and just the tone(could not hear what was said) told me they likely were concerned- having witnessed me in water- and had likely called 911. Crap! Another kite related police visit.(re: the time cop called me to shore and asked me to put down my axe first for his safety..)

I yelled ‘I’m Okay” ... too late no one believes you anyway. Still warm but dripping, pouring wet in 18 degree cold. Still have to set my arm back in place. “Will you call back and cancel the call , please?“, I said to one onlooker who said she indeed called 911. Too late. I hear the sirens coming my way.

So arrives two police cars Three officers, ambulance, fire engine .....with firemen all dressed and set to go in there....w/ super-thick insulated dry suits and thick roll out white rescue ropes off a rolling spool on truck...
Man, these fireman have been waiting for this. But damn.. ruined. The ‘victim’(me!) is on the shore. “ AWww..Why didn’t he stay in the water so we could rescue him?...”-they might have been thinking.

Well...as I’m thanking everyone -and also apologizing to get them out there for nothing( I did tell the caller to call and cancel)- and also refusing ambulance...while working on pulling and resetting my arm back in... The two firemen decide they can’t waste an opportunity and head out onto ice anyway... and pull the rope attached to them along- unrolling off truck. They start jumping up and down trying to crack ice and go for a swim. I guess they’re warm in their waterproof thick space suits and want to cool off. I’m directing them to try jumping over on the thin black ice where I fell in. Somehow they’re not finding the area and having no luck getting submerged by cracking through ice while jumping up and down:puzzled:.

After a couple minutes I get my arm back in the shoulder socket, while the cops, the extra fireman, and ambulance people are having a good ol’ social gathering by the lake
waiting for a fireman to fall in. The ambulance lady asked me if I knew what day it was and who the president was. She made me sign a document for refusing ambulance or for knowing who the president was...not sure. She was cold and shaking.. and I was soaking wet still but warm. I suggested she put a hat on and dress better.

After wrapping up kite, and getting my sneakers on, I walk to my car and hear-then turn to notice the helicopter over the lake right near us. I said to the lady officer,” oh no, That helicopter was for me too?” Yes, she said.' Didn’t anyone cancel the helicopter?', I thought?

Well, home for lunch and to put on dry clothes. This is why I have plastic covering on my car seats.


If this happened in remote location.. and or with no
dry clothes to change into.. may have not been so good....without change of clothes.

Hope there's some lesson here..or your mistake to read the long story version!

Be careful and prepared w/emergency gear and self rescue items(rescue tongs, alarm whistle , phone, dry clothes, etc). Make lots of test holes. Stay off if unsure. Being alone in remote areas alway a risk.

I have never gone through but to be prepaired I wear an impact / flotation vest .

It gives me peace of mind both from impact with ice + if I go through.

Skim: I'm glad everything came out good for you. Early or late ice I will only ski lakes that I know VERY well. Seems every lake has it's known bad areas and knowing them is a huge benefit. Sometimes I try to talk to the bait shops in town if I'm visiting a lake I'm unfamiliar with, they tend to keep close tabs on lake conditions since they service the people that use the lakes. Historically around here we have till the end of March to ride yet, (Green Bay is the exception) so there still is alot of riding to be had. Cheers.

i hope everyone chops test holes. i do each time. word of mouth isn't enough for me.

A freakin helicopter. LOL!

Quote:

Originally posted by skimtwashington i hope everyone chops test holes. i do each time. word of mouth isn't enough for me.

I use my ice screw to measure. Everybody should have one.

The trick with our lake and many others is that it has areas that are creeks in the lake. A few years ago a local went through one of those spots and had to be rescued by helicopter.

The sounds of the ice cracking as it warms and cools is very disturbing but very common at our higher lakes. :puzzled:

Very interesting and useful info. Thanks

Groaning ice is a good thing. Sounds like whale song here when it's cold.

Quote:

Originally posted by Feyd Groaning ice is a good thing. Sounds like whale song here when it's cold.

Yeah but scary on a lake you don't know. My local lake here, most of the winter we had super freaky conditions. Like every week there was a major thaw, with precip that left water on top of the ice everywhere. I've been thinking to myself this is no way to learn a new lake, but we've had an extended winter with at least a few good weeks recently and I missed ALL of it
:ticking:

Oh well, at least I got in some skiing, with more ahead. Freshies tomorrow!

Quote:

Originally posted by Feyd Groaning ice is a good thing. Sounds like whale song here when it's cold.

Yes, whale songs once you get used to it. Scary boo the 1st time I experienced it though !

We get this terrible condition here. With our mild weather and rain we get slush snow on top of water, on top of ice . Very lousy feeling . Hard to trust how much ice is way down there. Hard to get going and general lousy.