Again, well said Soliver. Prussik, I for one would like to hear your touts and opinions on quick releases if it can be done in a civil non condescending manner. Willing to try again?

Will you have a bar and a QR system available for less than $100 at SOBB?? Or sooner?!

I'm on just a regular pivoting hook right now and need to upgrade. I feel like the system that you, Jeff, have in place is just as safe (or safer even) as having a regular hook or wheel. Once you're getting yanked out of the buggy, there's no way in hell you're gonna unhook with a standard bar. All you can really do is grab a brake line or yank on one handle and hope the kite dives to the ground and actually stays there without powering back up and taking you on another ride. I see myself easily grabbing a ball and pulling to unhook. I'll shoot you a U2U.

While the Wichard release is the best. It is forged stainless steel, bullet proof, and worth
the $90.00 price tag,there is another option for the strop. The people who skijor on crosscountry skis pulled by sled dogs have the same quick release problem that we do.
they have a release that is $10.00 , is reliable and easy to use. It is made from plated steel and thus needs some care to avoid corrosion. Look at a company such as Nooksak
Racing or other mushing supplier.

Quote:

Originally posted by TEDWESLEY While the Wichard release is the best. It is forged stainless steel, bullet proof, and worth the $90.00 price tag,there is another option for the strop. The people who skijor on crosscountry skis pulled by sled dogs have the same quick release problem that we do. they have a release that is $10.00 , is reliable and easy to use. It is made from plated steel and thus needs some care to avoid corrosion. Look at a company such as Nooksak Racing or other mushing supplier.

If you are talking about something like this:



or



They are called panic snaps.... they are used with dogs and horses.

Can be found made of plated steel, stainless steel, nickel or brass.

Be extremely cautious as even if they look the same, some have ridiculously low break strengths. This is especially true of many of the offerings on eBay.

For beach applications, fouling from sand might also be an issue.


ATB,
Sam

Jeff, are you making friends again? Please stop issuing knowledge, experience and truth with absolutely no filter. It scares the timid and aggravates the contentious.

Prussik, welcome to PKF.

So, I've done a couple different QR solutions on handles, and both worked as well as one could hope for. I'm a huge fan of the approach that you never know what's going to go wrong, so plan for a total #@%$#!storm and then be pleasantly surprised when you don't have to use it. I was flying all FB's on a wicked-tight budget, so I went down to the hardware store and picked up one of these release shackles (for dogs, I believe).





Later that year, I splurged on a ronstan orbit QR block ($50) and put together the 2nd one. It was perfect but I should've tied a better monkey fist in that one. I missed the release once and had to go scrabbling around for it while filling my lower teeth with dirt and grass. Again, my bad, not the QR mechanism I "designed."



and another:

Quote: "I for one would like to hear your touts and opinions on quick releases if it can be done in a civil non condescending manner. Willing to try again? "

I am all for civil and noncondescending manner. Any deviation from it has been prompted - let the records show - by the earlier immature nonsensical posting. If someone would suggest that this is a poor excuse and obnoxiousness should rather be ignored than responded to - I won't disagree.

Back to the topic. There is nothing new I can add to what was already said years ago on this forum or another. The key element in using a pulley as a release element is the geometry of the groove. It should not be deeper than 1/4 ". The shape of it should be closer to a V rather than U (so that the sides are not excessively steep) though circular shape works well too if the groove is shallow and wide enough. The pulley should be about 1" thick which works in combination with a shallow groove giving the strop the gradual slope to roll off. And finally the larger diameter, the better - I'd say 2" minimum. This reduces the rolling friction as well as helps the release. With this kind of a pulley, and 5-6 mm strop, all is needed to release is a pull with the hand holding the handle in and down. I have not seen any "off the shelf pulley" that would meet those requirements so made them myself.

Keeping in mind that the best QR is the one, one is familiar and comfortable with and also being aware that the great majority of emergency release failures have nothing to do with the release mechanism but with psychology and decision making - there are several advantages in eliminating additional safety release hardware. There is no need to release the handle and grasp something else. It eloiminates the additional mechanism which typically moves the roller away from the body thus reducing the range of turning efficiency of the strop - well evident on some of the posted shots. And it does not affect the routine hooking and unhooking unlike some solutions which make this inconvenient.

It may seem that a shallow groove will cause unintended releases. This does not happen as long as the pulley is under tension. It won't be if power lines go slack or if the pull is taken by the arms holding both handles instead of relying on a harness - this never happens if steering is done with one hand. There is no need for both hands anyway (except of times of need for both brakes) - but that's another topic. One can possibly roll the strop off unintentionally by controlling action of the hand being not in line with the pull - but little practice takes care of that.

Thank you for your input Prussik, but I think you may be failing to recognize one of the most important key aspects to the more recent developments in the QR, ESP what Jeff has developed.

As you said, one of the biggest failures of the QR may be the psychology of the user, but psychology is taken out of play by the fact that the pull cord on the QR is connected to a strap coming up out of the buggy seat. In the case that the kite lifts the pilot out of the buggy, the QR is automatically engaged and does its job without the interference of the users brain or lack thereof.

I think that continuing this thread is going to get us nowhere but into a silly argument about who believes what is better, and who started what by being condescending etc etc which is futile and makes no difference, so lets end it with this...

I got the PL Divine harness in the mail yesterday and what they say is right, it is VERY comfortable,... However, I contacted the guy I bought it from and had him leave off the bar as I talked with Jeff and will be buying one of his AQR set-ups from him at JIBE,... so it won't matter how the new kite curse affects harnesses because I won't be able to use it for 2 more weeks anyway.

Hi

Just resurrecting this - I was looking at the various options for quick release, and heading towards the wichard (why is it so expensive compared to a snap shackle) when I had a thought that perhaps the quick release could be incorporated into the strop itself at one end, and came up with this: quick release sheet bend - ignore the first part, you want about 2 minutes in, and obviously, instead of leaving a loose end, it would have a ball to grab on to. It struck me that the release is much closer to hand as the release ball would be always close to the handle. Is there a flaw in my logic?

Quote: Originally posted by actd

Hi Just resurrecting this - I was looking at the various options for quick release, and heading towards the wichard (why is it so expensive compared to a snap shackle) when I had a thought that perhaps the quick release could be incorporated into the strop itself at one end, and came up with this: quick release sheet bend - ignore the first part, you want about 2 minutes in, and obviously, instead of leaving a loose end, it would have a ball to grab on to. It struck me that the release is much closer to hand as the release ball would be always close to the handle. Is there a flaw in my logic?

Wichard gear is produced to very high, border on insane, standards.

If you have a West Marine or similar nearby, go in and handle some of the stuff. It will be hard to keep the phrase "bulletproof" out of you head.

Depend on the slickness of the rope material you are using the chances of the QR sheet bend "walking"/working itself free as the direction of pull constantly changes during a session increases.

Release tension will also tend to vary based on weather/water/snow/ice.

In addition to quality, the high price of a Wichard shackle or other gear also buys more than a little peace of mind.

ATB,
Sam

Thanks - always good to have a decent explanation of what seems like a good idea actually isn't. So, assuming I go for the wichard, is there a reason why not to have it at one end of the strop rather than on the harness - that still seems like the most logical place?

Quote: Originally posted by actd

Thanks - always good to have a decent explanation of what seems like a good idea actually isn't. So, assuming I go for the wichard, is there a reason why not to have it at one end of the strop rather than on the harness - that still seems like the most logical place?

If you are using a pulley spreader bar, repeated impact of the shackle against the nylon wheel will damage it.

The shackle slapping against your hand/wrist will get annoying. Any contact with the shackle and control handles will wear on the neoprene/EVA coating.

When the "safety" is deployed the shackle will travel downwind with the handles with the uncoated metal possibly striking a civilian/bystander.

ATB,
Sam

A standard snap shackle of the type with a sliding pin at an angle are unreliable to release under tension. They can collect sand in the pin
mechanism and fail to release at all. The Wichard has a much different latch that does not have a problem releasing under load. It is
forged from stainless steel and has a much higher working load limit.