This discussion was buried in the spoke wheel covers. I wanted to see if I could stir the pot again. If you didn't read the spoke wheel cover issue we moved toward the question a racing.

The question was why don't we race? Below is a couple of postings.
What say you?????
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NAPKA started out as NAPKRA (North American Para Kart Racing Association). There was only 1 set of official races put on by Brad Rex at Galveston 5/3-5/4/2008 and sanctioned by NAPKRA. Membership was small and it was determined to re-brand and drop the stress on racing to acquire new members to allow being able to afford insurance.

There is lots of information on the NAPKA website regarding organizing races. Each area club would be in charge of running any races in their area.

It's up to you, the members, if you want to race. How many actually want to race in your area? How spreadout are we across the country?

Let's hear some discussion regarding this topic.

Morrie Williams - US86
Westport, WA, USA

Peter Lynn Classic, Competition & Folding Buggies
WindTec Twin Land Sailor w/6.2m sail
Peter Lynn - 5m & 10m Peels, 3.5m NGen, 2.2m, 3.2m, 4.2m C-Quads, Reactor II 3.5m, 6.9m
QuadTrac - 1.5m, 3m, 6m, 9m
SkyTiger - Hi10, Hi15, Hi22. 26, Hi30, Hi60
Quadrifoil - Quad 25
Force10 - 4.4m
__________________________________________________2 days latter_______

Well Morrie, it appears that no one wants to race. I don't believe it.
With all the alpha males I've met that are buggy pilots with a big investment in equipment to go fast, I'm sure that if you build it they will race.

The way I believe that the sport is growing, racing is going to have to be the next step to keep it alive and growing.

I love the fun runs and get together, meet and greets, lookin at everybody's rides and rip stop, the BS sessions and the fellowship.
BUT if there was racing at these events I'd compete. Why not! Now that's fun. Accumulate points, a national ranking like the Europeans do etc.. Get a dust collector trophy or two.

Look guys, there's all types of racing. Lawnmowers, Mud bogs, R/C airplanes, boats, go karts and many more that I haven't mentioned and those that compete travel miles and miles to race because it's in the blood. Nascar, Formula 1, 2S-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s 5S-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s, Tour de France, Monster trucks, so why not kite buggy?

I can't believe that all U.S. buggy guys and gals are just a bunch of laid back geeks that like to party and fly kites.

WE'VE GOT TO RACE TO GROW THE SPORT.

How many kite retailers are actually making money selling us stuff? I hear most are break even operations, supporting the operators buggy habit. Excuse me but the capitalist in me is showing.

And I know we've touched the edge of sponsorship before but there is $'s out there to help support some or most of a racing program, local, regional and national. We just got to ask for it. And, believe me sponsors got to spend money on advertising or give it to the IRS. I like this sound... "Red Bull is happy to sponsor the 2014 American Kite Buggy Championships."

What we do is unique and different, and people are interested in what we do. Every time I take a trip with my buggy on the back of my wagon people stop to ask me what it is, they smile and you can see a glint of amazement and wonder in there eyes. A potential sponsor will do the same thing and then write a check. Did someone say "Prize Money"? Gas bucks for show up's, trophies and stuff for winners, and a place in the "Kite Buggy Racing Hall of Fame."

Does any body out there eat red meat?:frog:

Baby steps to get started. Keep at it and it will grow. :smug:

I love the idea of having races, but the logistics are darn near impossible. My local beach, Southwick Beach State Park, on Lake Ontario is 50 miles away for me, the next closest buggy pilot is snowspider, I think his drive is similar, he just lives south of the park, and I live east. The next closest pilots are I think, stillflyin', BEC, and flyhighWNW. Best crowd of buggy's I've seen here was when me, snowspider, and stillflyin' got together one afternoon. This beach is quite narrow, with trees/dunes in play when the wind is off the water, so the only course is a down and back, maybe 3 miles or so, the main challenge would be passing or meeting the other buggies in the narrow space. I would love to be able to set up a race here, but to do it far enough ahead for others to make plans, and then have the wind turn out right would be just too much luck. That said, wind today is predicted WSW at 20-gusting to 30, with mostly sunny conditions in the high 60's! Guess where I'm headed? :evil:

What is the motivation with wanting to "grow the sport"?

been there done that..... I used to promote organized racing events in a different sport..... you could not pay me enough to do it again (well I lie, if you paid me more than I currently make at all my jobs then maybe )... some of these events NABX, JIBE, etc. may pull enough people to have some type of race but I bet the problem may be finding people to give up their fun to run the event, too much work and too much drama trust me. I like the path that this sport is headed... you have those like me who are pushing to reach personal milestones in speed, those who push their limits in freestyle and then there are the purist that just like to sail. nothing wrong with a spur of the moment race with friends when the conditions present themselves either

IMO, racing is not the first step to growing the sport. Besides, I rather enjoy running fast with all my fellow kiters, without the drama and work that racing brings. We don't need no stinkin' rules.

I agree with Chris, But if you want to race on a fairly regular basis you need to have a group with-in decent range. Here in my area all I have is my kid. I'd hate to have him beat me. Or I can go to Nahant but I don't think it will work therein the summer. And that is more than two hours drive.

You aren't going to race in VA. These commie a-holes,will shut you down w/ the quickness. Unless they can find away to TAX us. Welcome to the "communistwealth of Virginia".:evil::evil::evil:

I am all for racing. The beauty with this sport is that we can have both, racing as well as fun laid back cruising. There is very little reason that an event cant host both and still not infringe on one or the other.

As far as sponsorship, count me in. I am all for it.

Unfortunately we have to have rules. Without rules we don't have racing, just arguments. Rules define the outcome of certain possibilities that cause confusion. Rules also provide safety and information to those that don't know. Every established racing organization has a published set of rules that must be followed, mostly for safety, the rest for competitiveness and fairness.

Personally I don't care if it is NABX (we don't need no stinking rules) rules or if it is Fisly rules or if it is a modification of both put together. As long as the rules are posted, we can race. When issues come up, we amend the rules to fit our needs.

Racing can be a fun and exciting thing to add to our sport. It is not ever going to replace what we already have, just enhance another aspect of it. I would love to race.....doubt I would beat anyone, but I would still love to get out there and see how I do against some of the best in our sport.

There are always going to be those that snub their noses towards racing.....fine with me, if you don't want to race then don't. Most all venues have more than enough room for you to do your own thing while those that want to race can do theirs. Or there will be events that are geared specifically towards racing. If you don't want to race then that is probably an event you won't want to attend.

NABX, SOBB, DBBB and WWBB will always be there and (afik) will not be changing so the people who love those events the way they are can still attend and have all the fun they have always had. Racing events will either enhance those staple events (if the organizers wish) or they will create their own events at other times to accommodate the people who want to compete.

I don't see racing as something that will ever change our sport, but something else that will enhance it for the ones that want to do so.

My opinion is always worth exactly what you paid for it.

Buggy on dudes!

I'm all for racing. I highly doubt I would participate but I'm in favor of anything that may help the sport grow. I'm with chris when it comes to simply going fast with friends for myself but seeing some races on US soil might even bring a bit more support from overseas brands as well. Just a thought

itd be sweet to race, but with so few venues in the US, and the small number of pilots, its hard to make a circuit for a season.

Ive talked at length with people about doing time trials at certain locations, shipwreck run at jibe was how it started. Time, verified by gps could be posted for certain places, and the "winner" would simply be the current "fastest". Courses could be agreed upon at each location, and when you wish to "compete", go there, run it, post your gps and time, and once its vetified, bam! Bonus points for hitting X amount of venues per season.

Even talked about doing triathalon style races, buggy/board/surf. But,it,still goes back to a solo timed race.

The timed runs would fix the "not enough pilots" & "i cant make it that day" problems most of us face, but still give us a chance to test ourselves, and if need be, gloat at some of our slower competitors *cough cough mouglCOUGH!

Slower? Brother you'd be too busy recovering from OBEs and broken spreader bars to top my time!

LMAO!

Im sorry mougl.... I cant hear you over the sound of my sooper hooj cajones being amazing as all hell!

I was too busy kicking arse with 27 sq meters of kites in the air to pay attention to your rollover on a, what was it, 9m kite?



May be time for the "Rum Punch" to don the pink skirt!

14m ty. I could have been on a 2m dual line and made the run there and back faster than you waiting for a tow back to camp

Love your "tow of shame line" bro!

Maybe I should just give it up and pilot a blokarr ;-)

Lmao! We better stop now.... Cant veer another thread this week!


So time trials? Good / Bad idea?

Agreed.. </veer>

Time trials sound like fun!

As Morrie said , NAPKRA was started to help with racing. And as he said, there was not as much desire to race as first thought.
As far as NAPKA and racing goes now, it would be up to each "club" to organize a race if that club wishes. A member could also hold a race, but all attendees would have to be NAPKA members for insurnace reasons.There are only a handful of district reps for NAPKA right now. There are many areas of the country and Canada,that are not represented by NAPKA officer wise, I would love to see that change. It's not a big deal, and doesn't require a bunch of work. If you want to do a NAPKA race, get with a local rep for your area or start an "event" and call it a race and see if you can get folks to come. There are race rules on our website, use them. If you don't understand them I can put you in contact with someone that can help explain how it works.

As far as sponsorship, it's not as easy as it looks. I sought out sponsors for our Team Riders, not just kite companies, big brand companies such as Monster Energy. I had them very interested for a good while even talking with the owner of the parent company, they offered a minimum sponsorship which basically gaves us 20% off their merchandise. We did that, and it never got further than that. I pushed videos, guys just plain ripping up the beach and using their logos in the team videos wearing their gear,you know the ones that Todd made. I continued to press for about 3 months, nothing. It gets tiring, and for the little you get back, it wasn't worth it at the time. I was sponsored by Cloud Kicker for a year, but again, it was just about getting us to buy their gear. I wrote to them, and invited them to come to WBB, (they are out of NY NY) and they never responded. I am just plain having fun now and love it more than ever. A good day just tearing it up works for me!

We have talked about having races at WBB, but that would involve "closing down" sections of the beach. At a time when we were lucky not to have lost our spot all together, I did not want to push that issue. I am sure that with Baby steps, Wildwood would allow me to add another event, just a race event, somewhere in the off season. I think we can get enough people to show. It may be cold, but it would be fun.

I would rather do like Chris said, I would rather just push myself while running down the beach with a buddy, than have such an organized race. I also agree that this sport is not going to grow due to racing, there are so many new members to PKF lately, all this with out a race, it's all about someone seeing you out there and being intrigued enough to search it out.

i can't help myself...

we love to race here at Sunset Beach. It is not real organized and there are not many of us, but we can get around pretty good.

Aiken, aren't you West Coast?

I love to race
Chris C1

Here is the only racing I enjoy the most Click here @1:20 to 2:30 what a kick a$$ time! Not to pimp the video but rather to give you the vibe, best shipwreck run with my Brother Rich... too bad your GoPro was the fail in the end lol

I think the biggest problem here is that the west coasters got LARGE areas of nowhere to ride and race . And that is how they do their thing.
And us east coasters don't have dry lakes,or very large open spaces. Our undeveloped land is TREES and WATER. So we have to ride on the beach,which is where everyone else and there brother wants to be there too. That means we would have to deal with municipalities that really are only motivated by potential revenue. The "monster truck" show brings out alot of people. That is worth shutting down a beach for. Us, not so much ,yet. So ,they will look at us with that raised brow and say "NO". My point is we have two very different ways of buggying. And two very different ways of viewing the future of the sport.

What do we do about it ? I don't know. I'm just gonna pay my dues and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpoY_Bs8Wy4 ....................................

We have a large area here to buggy on, Ivanpah is premier. That doesn't mean that you can have races in other areas. Just like Nascar, you have your 1/2 mile tracks and then you have your super speedways. Every event is challenging because of what it is. Setting up a small course in a tight area with a few buddies can be awesome. Use what you have and go for it. As far as access, NAPKA and its membership/insurance makes a lot of these things possible.

hmmm. I think I will get a buggy and go race my shadow. . .even though he might argue who won.

license . ? . I don't need no stinkin "personal permit" I mean license...



"A "license" is in no sense a contract between the state and the licensee, but is a mere 'personal permit', neither transferable nor vendible."

"conferring the right to do some act which without such authorization would be illegal"

Can you confer a right you do NOT posses? LOL

cheers

Quote: Originally posted by chris

IMO, racing is not the first step to growing the sport. Besides, I rather enjoy running fast with all my fellow kiters, without the drama and work that racing brings. We don't need no stinkin' rules.

ditto