What is a good first depower for atb in 10-15 mph winds? I currently have a PKD soul fly 4.4 and I'm very comfortable flying it, I would like to buy a depower though but don't want to get anything too expensive and want to get something that I'll be able to get power out of and make use of for a while, but don't want something insane. Just yet at least.

Welcome Logan!

What surface are you boarding on and how much do you weigh?

On the beach here. And around 180-190

Any thoughts on a fly surfer pulse 2? Or too much?

12m Ozone Access would be great or an 11m HQ Apex or maybe a Peter Lynn Phantom 15m if your are attracted to the Arc side.

All capable well priced kites. Its going to take you a long time to outgrow any of them.

I don't know much about flysurfers, I've only flown 1 and I didn't like it.

If you are already comfortable with a 4.4 I'd recommend a 9-11m higher aspect kite like the Frenzy, Montana or Pulse 2. You'll need to get use to how the kite pulls from the hook and not the arms but if you understand the wind window and how to fly a kite you will want something with more upwind ability and lift and less drag and side pull than lower aspect kites provide.

this is a HUGE step in skill development, FS would not be very forgiving, actually frustrating.

the point of balance, as mentioned, even proceeds the kite management so maybe a harness and a strop for a while...then go to depower

I suggest you buy a harness and start getting used to hooking in with the kite you have while you shop for a depower. Getting used to flying off the harness takes a bit of adjustment.

I don't know for Pulse II but my 7m Pulse I's the 1st depower I put in peoples hands.

The Pulse II is Flysurfers most user friendly . The Psycho is a bit more lifty and the speed more speedy. Flysurfers build quality is amazing and I think they are the best bang for buck on the used market these days. if you find a Pulse II at a good price I would get behind that as a choice ?

If you are looking for a user friendly kite, get an arc. A 15m guerilla 1 or 2, a 15m-17m bomba, a 15m phantom, a 16m venom 1 or 2, a 14m or 17m vortex (if you can find one ) or a 15m synergy are all great choices. The ones listed before the venom are kind of slow but I have a set of guerillas and fly them all the time. F-arcs, scorpions, and chargers should be avoided as a first kite, though they are really fun once you have some experience. F-arcs are sweet low wind kites, but they will curl up into a ball on the ground if you don't know how to fly an arc. If you are into jumping, the float they have is comparable to a flysurfer speed 3. I'm getting ahead of my self now, you still need to learn how to fly a depower before you can even think of tackling on of these beasts.

So a Arc is a good first depower? and I'm planning on getting a harness asap so I can get use to it, I was looking at a HQ montana, and a couple flysurfer pulse two's, and saw a couple PL's, But What size should I be looking for? and my thing is money is kind of limited so I don't want to get something that's gonna be really slow, or beginner only, I want to get something I'll be able to learn on but I'll be able to get good use out of for at least 6 months or longer, so Till I can save up enough money to buy another kite after this one. (minimum wage sucks), But I understand how to fly very well, I understand the window, and I can already jump with my FB. And as recommend I'm gonna get a harness as soon as possible while I'm on the search for a depower.

The Arcs I listed are definitely not beginner only. They aren't REALLY slow either. The 15m guerilla I listed is going to be the slowest one on the list and it is one of my favorite kites. The jumps for me in 10mph are really floaty and I'd say my feet are at least 5 feet off the ground. When the wind picks up to 15-18mph I can easily get some good 10-15 foot jumps. That's about the same as my 13m venom in 20-25mph winds. The only thing I have flown that has higher jumps and more float are my f-arcs. 20+ foot jumps are not uncommon with my them. My friend said he saw me jump as high as a 30 foot light pole once(I don't condone jumping that high over land). The wind was close to 30mph which was way out of the range for that kite.

I can down loops and do everything else I can do on my venom with my 15m guerrilla. It is slower but it has more grunt and more pull at slower speeds. It might actually make learning easier since it will give you a bit more time to react. I learned to jump with a board on my 15m guerilla because my venom was too fast and I always miss-timed the redirect.

You should be able to pick up a venom or older kite for $200 or less. I paid $340 shipped for my 13m venom and it came with a bar, lines, and a harness. Don't forget to invest in a helmet! A $15 piece of foam could save your life. Post a link to any kite you find here so we can tell you if it is a go or no go.

Thanks alot for the help, I'll post links to whatever I find, Should I be on the look out for around a 13-15 guerrilla or venom?

Quote: Originally posted by Logan489

Should I be on the look out for around a 13-15 guerrilla or venom?

Do you fly alone? Do you fly in light winds? If you answer yes to either of those I think you'd be better served with an open cell foil or get yourself a portable fan / leaf blower to help with inflation and some sandbags or water bottles, etc. to help with launching.

Quote: Originally posted by B-Roc

Quote: Originally posted by Logan489   Should I be on the look out for around a 13-15 guerrilla or venom? or get yourself a portable fan / leaf blower to help with inflation and some sandbags or water bottles, etc. to help with launching.

With regards to the fan/leaf blower for Arcs in low wind conditions that Brian mentioned, this is a good thread to read through:

Kite Blower-Uppers

ATB,
Sam

The wind here is usually 10-15 mph, and It's about 50/50 with flying with someone and flying solo. What are you guys thoughts on a 12.5 HQ Montana?

12.5 may be a little big ? Not too big for 10 - 15mph winds once you are completely comfortable with it but a lot to handle as a 1st depower ?

The larger the kite , the slower it will turn. You can create a lot of power with a smaller faster turning kite. Something around 10m will give you a larger range of wind you can play in. The 12.5 will be pretty lit up if it blows more than 15mph. Always size for the gusts !!!!

If you look at arcs 13 - 15m will be a good size.

I'm not familiar with Montana's but I think they are up to Montana 5 or something now. Some models / years were better that others from what I here.

Checking on here for opinions is a very smart move !

I am a big fan of the Flysurfers and think old Pulse / Pulse II are amazing deals these days. If you get a chance to compare notice how Flysurfer adds all sorts of things to protect your kite like LB rated breakaway tabs between your bridle and kite, Blow out valves etc.. Closed cell is nice for the kite keeping shape when you mess up. Older Flysurfers are selling for similar cost to open cell but cost a lot more in the 1st place !

Logan, U2U sent .

Blade has the right idea... get a harness and run a couple foot length of line from power leads on your handles on your 4M. Most have small leads on the back of the handles you can loop right on to.

I'm partial to LEI (Leading Edge Inflatables)....but I play in the water too... I love the non-bridle setups (STUPID-SIMPLE-KOOK-PROOF)...and the pumping is a good warmup.

The ARC's are fun too...but you want to look for the newer ones...much safer.

For a compromise...look at the HQ Neo's too!! I have the 14M and LOVE it!! But I'd say 8-10M is better size to learn.

Be safe!

I have a gorgeous scorpion 16m arc ... RTF .... with zero7 bar, lines, brand new spars, and original bag in great shape ....$350 includes shipping CANConUS .... with the shipping included thats about $50 less than most scorps ... talk to flyjump ...it was his originally....also guerilla 13m RTF negotiable .... whoops.....hijack ..... sorry ....bad etiquette

What would you sell the guerrilla 13m for rtf?

Bigbear, I'm interested in that scorpion Logan doesn't want it. I need a quiver for the water and I'm not to certain my guerilla's will be very relaunchable. Then I would have my 3 quivers. Jumping (f-arcs + venom), Cruising (guerillas) and Water(scop + venom)

Logan, I'm not sure it a 13m would be a good starting size for those winds. I need about 10 to get rolling and 15 to start being able to do transitions. Those wind speeds are about my average and what I started on with a 13m. I just had to wait for days with higher wind to fly and I static flew it in lower winds. Static flying really helps with kite control. Going bigger will help you get going in lower winds but it may be too much kite and slow down your progress. A 13m-16m is a good range to pick from, you just need to decide if you want more bottom end or more top end.

Thanks. For now probably low end and I would obviously learn to fly a 13m on less windy days and static fly but is a guerrilla 13m gonna be good for what I'm wanting to do?

For more low end you would want to go with a 15-16m. You will start riding sooner but will be over powered sooner. If you get that guerilla you could static fly when you would be riding with a 16m and ride a little bit later and could keep flying a lot later. One other thing to note is arcs have less projected area than bridles kites. Ie, a 13m arc is about equivalent to a 9-10m bridled kite.

I'd strongly suggest a user friendly and relatively small & safe depower kite if you're upgrading from just a 4.4M fixed-bridle. You have no idea what you are going up against if you're taking on any depower kite size 12 meters and up with a landboard.

A low-aspect ratio kite would be a good place to start, such as the HQ Apex or the Ozone Access. The Apex would be the preferred kite to get, as you're getting pretty much the same performance at a much more affordable price.

As for size, go for around 8 square meters if you want about the same power as your 4.4M fixed bridle, and up to 11M if you want lighter wind power at the expense of not being able to fly in stronger winds.

See this useful post for more info on choosing depower kite size:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=25565#pid24...

You need a simple kite , a very stable kite , a very easy to set up , a free tangle lines kite , a beginner kite with a lot of power when you progress ! That its name is Ozone Frenzy 9 mtrs

i 2nd a 9m Frenzy.....you will never outgrow it and will master it by yourself.

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER

this is a HUGE step in skill development, FS would not be very forgiving, actually frustrating.

How about a FS Outlaw? It's an open-cell depower landkite for buggying and landboarding, and it's around the same price (and maybe same AR as well) as a Frenzy. I was considering one for myself as part of my dream depower kite collection. Or is it just as unforgiving as the rest of FS's kites?

flown alot of kites moutains of arc and tube time of just about every make and style. added into the mix last spring a pulse 2 14m and P4 12m. these are incredible units, the pulse 2 a real power house and a bit finicky for smooth wind and below 20 insane float and airs. the P4 is very quick and pops like tube with better float in light er air of equal size.

the difference between fun and frustrating in a nut shell. continuous piloting through the bar, your hands must be adding direction, tension(and at times very slight) almost continuously, more for pulse2 for sure , far less for the P4 . for cruising about its not A LOT but different. BUT for jumping and air absolutely. you really have to pilot with tension , AND reading the kite with the UNIFORM tension they have is so smooth and somewhat vague at first, very similar to modern front line bias tubes but totally smoothed out, not all jerky.

and understanding how to USE the backstall which has purpose and flying with it trimmed out. this is where the real difference shows up from "yeah i got going" to "how is that guy popping huge and everyone else is slugging "

they idle ok but still need nursing hands to control.

have not flown a unity so don't know, FS are supreme efficient kite systems just take a little introductory period even for a seasoned flier (2-3 sessions) major benefits when fully wired.

frenzy, neo, matrixx, outlaw all very similar...apexx prolly more intro unit i think , they sit back from the edge a bit making things friendly

I weigh in a 190lbs on a good day and 200 on a bad :barf: I bet a 10m ozone access or hq apex 3 or 4 would be a great partner for depower experience. I have my 6m access and on a nice groomed field can have an acceptable session staying upwind starting at around 17mph (27-28km/h) (jumping isn't till at least 20-25mph (32-40km/h)). The 10 shouldn't be too much if you know the window well and is really predictable. The apex is more or less the same kite without ozone bling and quite a bit more affordable. On a hard packed beach you should be good to start around 12mph. 10mph is a tough one at the start because of kite size required and board skills to keep everything happening. Just my 2 cents. Bladerunner had a good idea of starting with a strop, till you get used to flying and riding hooked in. Even though depower is the more common choice, there is nothing saying you can't stick with fixed bridles; you, know them, and can often acquire them cheaper than a depower. Good Luck!!!