hi guys has anybody made an ARC kite?
I would make a Venom 1 13m copying from an old one , what do you think about it?

you've already made this post....right?

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=27109

Building any kite by disassembling and copying an old one is a great way to go! Keiron Janisch disassembles ozone frenzies and then makes new kites with fantastic art on them by copying the pieces and assembly. http://vimeo.com/13978777

yes i did post it, I wanted to refresh the post.
do you think it is a must to cut the ripper stop with laser cutter?

I do not think it's a must, but I would definitely secure the material you are cutting to ensure good, straight cuts. 100% sized pattern pieces are going to be a a requirement without using something high-tech like a CNC laser cutter.

By merely commenting on your previous post, you would "refresh" it.

Yeah no need to repost, clutters the forum. Forget the laser cutter, unless you have access to one of course! It would save you time. Otherwise, "hot cut" with a soldering iron or specialized hot knife.
Building kites is good fun, I wish you luck. I would love to see a homemade Arc but don't want to build one myself... As previously mentioned there are good deals on used Arcs, but building is as much about pride of the build as it is the flying!

thanks all!

How times have changed since rec.kites. Not one reply to the poster about the ethics of knocking off a production kite (current or not).

Quote: Originally posted by geokite

How times have changed since rec.kites. Not one reply to the poster about the ethics of knocking off a production kite (current or not).

User stated they wanted to build themselves a kite. No objections there.

If anybody had stated they wanted to build *AND SELL* a kite...well, I think people would object to copying another design.

Yeah look at how jonesband got virtually pummeled here for passing off others designs as his own. Kieron Jansch is doing this same thing when he takes an ozone Frenzy apart and remakes one at the highest level. His work is celebrated. But he doesn't sell his kites.

I want to make a kite for me only, a sort of "customed ARC kite based on Venom´s design"............it goes without saying I do not want sell it!

You should try and contact Keiron. He might have the most experience in this kind of thing ?
What Keiron did was document his experience. I would hope you will consider doing the same. I think a lot of folks are interested in this kind of thing but are worried because so few have tried it.

Another good contact would be Ziggy. I think he is planning on building a Phanny and has vast experience with sewing kites. Ziggy isn't on here much but Markite may be able to hook you up with him ?

I am pretty sure Keiron got Ozones blessing BEFORE he copied their kite ! I'm sure Peter Lynn would be cool but it would be a good idea to get his blessing .

Yeah, I would think Peter Lynn would give the go ahead on your attempts. He responds pretty quickly to emails too. Peter@peterlynnkites.com

(Feeling a little preachy today - the artist side of me with little sleep spilling out, I gotta have a coffee and quite adding to this)

I'm not 100% sure but I thought the story for Kieron was he bought a new kite, then asked permission to make one, took apart the brand new kite and cut it up and built a new one from there. The key being permission and buying one to start with.
There has been a long time discussion and misunderstanding about copying for personal use - technically it still infringes copyright and the idea that "freely built for personal use" has been something that has been passed around and accepted without much understanding. Some companies let it go and some aggressively go after copiers - it often comes down to cost and simply not practical to chase everyone so it's a moral decision.

Think of it this way - what if Peter was your next door neighbor and designed a kite and was selling it at a little roadside stand out front of his house to make a living. Then you decide to you don't want to pay him but make one for personal use to go outside and fly kites with him. It wouldn't go over well. So building for personal use still raises questions.

Peter is very outspoken about copying and some of his kites. Some designs he will allow to build with a license fee and others are built with his blessing - either way i would ask.

If you follow arc users and read Tungstens recent post on saving the Charger 1 you see how critical a number of measurements, angles and sewing things are especially with the internal webbing etc. Ziggy has not made one but was thinking if it ever got to the point where his original 6m Phantom was too far gone he would look at making one from that - the problem on construction based on an old kite is the amount of stretch that old kite to try and base any pattern on it. I've done repairs on many and have fixed up Ziggys and I can tell you it'll be quite the task making one and definitely something to do for the joy/pain of constructing something yourself vs saving a lot of money

So with someone purchasing a kite, taking it a apart and making a new one with their own graphics he has ended up with one he paid for. And same with refurbishing an old kite that you paid for to the point you have a brand new one. But if you take that info from the kite you purchased and distribute the plans that is something very different. Perhaps basing it on an older model and doing some tinkering with your own ideas would be acceptable to Peter if you discuss it with him?

the problem is that I would like to fly a Venom 11m (based on Venom 13 shape) and size 11m does not exist, I would customize it with bridels and I would change something about the tips...in other words I do not want\need to copy a Venom 10 or 13 because it would it cheaper and easier to buy a second-hand one.
actually i don´t know if I am going to make it because of costs and time, moreover the result is pretty influenced by sewing skills and precision...in other word it´s wasy to say "I wanna make one" but it´s hard to make it for real.

While looking for kite bar ideas, I came across these guys and some kites they made. They aren't ARCs, they are LEIs, but you may be able to take something away from their plans.

http://www.instructables.com/group/zeroprestige/

These guys are more than a little goofy, but I might try something like their ice crab buggy ("proa").
I like the flexible carving edge concept.

Quote: Originally posted by rectifier

While looking for kite bar ideas, I came across these guys and some kites they made. They aren't ARCs, they are LEIs, but you may be able to take something away from their plans. http://www.instructables.com/group/zeroprestige/ These guys are more than a little goofy, but I might try something like their ice crab buggy ("proa"). I like the flexible carving edge concept.

That could be an excellent resource for someone looking to start. A kite buddy of mine used thoseguys way back to try his hand at kite building. He tried an 8.5 first. Then got right into it with the 12.5. Built a light table, got a commercial sewing machine, hot knife fabric cutter. He even built the bladders. He got into kite repair as well. The kites flew great for the time too.

The only 'ARC' plans I remember reading about was way back in the S-ARC days. Nothing more current.

Try Surfplan kite design software.
Hobby version is free of charge.
Zeroprestige is great !