I have been enjoying this thread..... I am neither an engineer nor a metal worker/ machinist but i must say it sems that those with the book smarts are missing some of the street smarts that comes from the doing. Many moons ago when i working in a bicycle shop during college a group of engineering students came in to have me build wheels for their competition solar car. they promptly told me how they wanted the wheels built to maximize the strength to weight ratio- when i reviewed what they wanted- being a mere mechanic i explained that the wheels would not hold up at all if they wanted to turn or hit a bump in the road- they explained that their math was accurate and that i needed to build to their specs- guess what- they asked my opinion when i need to build them a second set...... life is so much different that whats on paper.... maybe experience is more valuable than smarts at times- although i think cooperation between the two yields the best results

so are we up for buggying this weekend or not?

Did someone mention non- ferrous buggy builds? I think my wood core aluminum tube bolt together used and severely abused and unbroken "Black and Yellow" qualifies. "Outside The Box" yeah I read that book! You guys are too much fun. Flyguy your story reminds me of a fellow I know who built a boat all based on him and his brothers calculations. When it went into the water it sat way deep at the tail , they thought that by adding weight to the front it would pivot level. As they added water to some storage tanks in the front I told a friend of mine (an areonautical engineer who was sure this would fix it) that it might level but not befor taking the whole boat way too deep in the water. When that did'nt work they pulled it out and began calculating "the fix" from the scale readings on the hoist. Being a firm believer in templates I suggested building simple(cheap) angle iron frames in a shape or design that suited them and fill them with blocks of styrofoam , add styrofoam untill it levels. They liked everything but the trial and error part. With calculations and drawings they build some nice heavy duty tanks , airtight welded to the hull , topped off with a rear teakwood deck then put the boat back in the water. The empty boat floated with the back end of the deck 2" under water. These are smart guys but the three of them could not grasp the "see if it works" "try it befor you buy it" concept. They were all fully confident that it would float a little high in the back , it was sad to see that thing sagging into the water.

Wonder if I could blow off my plans for this weekend and hit SS instead....sounds like a much better time.

WOW. You're either really hurt by all this or you're just a two faced mother effer. I have serious doubts you're feelings are really hurt. Insulting Americans in general just because a couple of us pissed you off?! WTF. I've invited you and your girlfriend into my home, I've tried to like you and give you respect, and this is what you do? Who are you?

What flyguy said above is exactly how I feel, especially the last sentence. I never said I wouldn't consult an engineer or a metallurgist if I ever build a buggy. You've taken this too far and my respect for you now matches the respect you have for me and my fellow Americans and that is none.