Maybe this has been covered before, but I was just curious as to the differences between all of the different arcs new and old. For example, the differences between venom, guerilla, synergy, charger, phantom. Why is the Charger considered to be better on the water? Without first hand experience with these they all look the same when your thinking about purchasing one new or used. Are there any to avoid? Which ones hold resale the best?

I got my 1st arc in about 2006 . A 1200 Farc. I was still pretty green and it handed it to me a couple of times. Too fast !

A few years later I got a great deal on Guerilla 13 and 18m. I liked them and loved the auto zenith but filling them was a pita. In the end , too slow !

I sort of moved to Flysurfers and they pleased everything but my accountant.

A few years ago I got to try the Proto Charger at NABX . ( boy I miss PL support at Ivanpah ) It seems I was missing out on how much arcs improved . While waiting for Chargers to come out I got to use the 15m Synergy Demo kite from Ripsession. I liked it so much I bought it. The VPC made ALL the difference ! JUST RIGHT !!!!!

When the Charger I came out I got the 10 and 19. Wasn't thrilled with the 19 ( I am small ) and got to trade for a 15. The Charger is a far more aggressive kite. Not too bad in the 15 size but I didn't like the 10m twitchy ways. A great kite for young wiper loopers but am more fond of the forgiving nature of the Syn'. I traded my 10m Charger for one with a guy from Hawaii. Where the kite belonged.

So .... I skipped over the infamous Venom series so am missing that piece of the progression puzzle. One thing I think changed between VI and II is the fill zipper was moved to the wingtip ? I lost my hands on experience when Ripsession went down so can't speak to the arcs newer than Charger I. I sort of feel that I won't want what I don't know and am super happy with the way the Synergy serves it up. Holding on to a kite I am intimate with will get me the most out of those too few days that I get out ?

I get behind Venom due to it's rep' but am 100% happy with my Synergy !

If you want LEI speed and performance the Charger 1 is the ticket. "Better" is relative to what you like. If you want park and ride the Charger will put you off. I think most of the Arc riders prior to the Charger 1 fall into that category and as a result the Charger 1 was a disappointment to a lot of people. This was compounded by production flaws in a few batches of that series. All Chargers are fairly aggressive kites performance wise. They like to be flown aggressively and they will allow you to do things no other Arc can match. Smaller sizes are very fast and a hell of a lot of fun if your reflexes are up to it. My personal fav in 40kts + is the 8m Charge 1.

Venom 2 and Synergy were the sweet spot IMO in regards to a universal acceptance by a wide variety of riders. The Phantom 2 is my personal favorite followed closely by both the Charger 1 and F-arc.

The Phantom 2 was a response to a call from Peter Lynn riders for an arc that wasn't as aggressive as the Charger one and a suitable replacement for the Phantom 1 which was a castrated version of the F-Arc. My impression from feedback and opinions that I've seen in this and other forums is that most people were disappointed with the performance of the Phantom 2 as it didn't fly like the Phantom 1. Personally, I was not a fan of the Phantom 1 especially after flying the F-arcs and I feel the Phantom 2 is in most ways a superior kite to the first. But again, if you like the original the added performance of the Ph2 probably doesn't blow your skirt up.

The Charger 2 should have been called the Synergy 2. It has a very similar feel and is much tamer than the Charger 1. Both great kites, depends on your tastes and performance demands.

Thanks Feyd and BR. Great information. I've seen bits and pieces here and there about the different arcs, but it's great to get someone's perspective that has flown most or all of them. Unfortunately our winds are in the 20's and very gusty this weekend which is out of my comfort zone given my lack of experience, so I probably won't get the chance to test the venom in the buggy until next weekend hopefully.

Here is my experience with the various arcs. Listed in order of production

Sarc,farc,guerilla- have seen them never flown them

Phantom- super stable and long likes to ride on edge of window and originals only had one center zip Best known for the graphics and incredible upwind ability

Venom I - the kite that really revolutionized and made the twinskin known this kite had two inflate zips and the center strap adjustment the 13 was and still is considered the best all around arc for size and efficiency. (Last arc designed by Peter Lynn himself)

Venom II - in essence the venom I with a couple of mods that users of the vi were doing, 1. The addition of tip straps to increase grunt and steering speed also a mod called the TFT or trailing edge tuck where the trailing edge was shortened to increase speed further. I have never really felt that much difference between the 1&2 and built my arc quiver around the v2s. My goto kite was my 13 vii (until c2) in most mild winds 10-18 the kite was fast enough to generate power by flying it and looping it also had a reasonable amount of float for its size. A lot of folks liked the 16m over the 19m but the 19 still is my jump machine/parachute. Really I think the 19 is a fat mans 16, but is also the largest projected area of any of the arcs unless you like at the 22m+ wings. My favorite activity is the 19 in 20ish mph winds can jump huge and feel completely safe

Vortex- the stepchild kite was designed as a school kite and came out same yr as venom ii I really liked it and was the first arc I ever flew or jumped on, but never became to well known because it was a "beginner" kite and with kite surfer egos no one wanted to try it. It does sit a little deeper in the window so upwind is not as good unless really powered up and lift was minimized but just required a hard send to jump with. I really liked this kite and ended up finding a 10 m to teach my 12 yr old son to fly.

Scorpion- the highest ar of any of the arcs more like a ribbon and was first to have the vpc bridle, I think this kite is either liked or hated. Very lifty with less float and could be a real pain in the ass to launch if not fully inflated also was prone to bow ties, but turns quick and is very fast. Personally never liked it

Synergy- I have never flown one but am guessing that the scorpion had scared enough folks away from arcs and also leis we're becoming the norm for water that this kite never really got popular. From what I have read and heard from those in the know was a super sweet kite and as feyd said the charger 2 is most like the synergy

Charger 1- fast twitchy and super high performance with some isolated manufacturing issues that killed this kite

Phantom 2- another fast kite with amazing upwind, excellent kite for big open areas where it can generate aperrant wind does not have a lot of grunt until really moving. I think might be great in a buggy or on skis but I did not like it for small field land boarding

Charger 2 - stable but with fast flying characteristics lot of grunt and flies in lower winds then any of the other arcs in my experience. I have even had it unbowtie itself and never have had it invert. Was really my favorite til it dropped me but still look forward to climbing back on that horse and showing it who's boss.

There it is. I think that arcs are my favorite kites for vertical flying, and are a great choose as a beginner depower. They are only good in movement and with enough wind. I do have some experience on open cell depower (hq) and like them as well in clean winds and have used my apex 7.5 to buggy in a parking lot in maybe 5mph winds. I think most of the depowers today are decent kites but really believe that the venom was the first effective depower in the c kites and early inflatables
S

A note of correction. F-Arcs and Phantoms are higher AR than the Scorp. The 16m F-arc had an AR of 7. 12m was AR 6.5. The Phantom 1 was 6.5 AR in all sizes.

The seams weren't sealed on the Scorp which allowed a higher than average air seepage and lead to a high incident of bowties due to mix of it's relatively high AR and low internal pressure due to seepage. If you had good steady winds and constant air entering the kite it was an excellent kite to fly.

Vortexs are very nice. I agree, "beginner kite" gave it a bad rap. Vortexs are relatively rare on the used market, maybe more rare than some Phantom 1s.

All Arcs have their good and bad points. Just like any kite I suppose. But they are all fun to fly IMO and can all do just about anything you could ever ask when you know how to ask 'em. :D

Feyd
Thanks for the clarifications no expert but I really do love the ones I have flown

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

...The Phantom 2 was a response to a call from Peter Lynn riders for an arc that wasn't as aggressive as the Charger one and a suitable replacement for the Phantom 1 which was a castrated version of the F-Arc. ...

Indeed the F-Arc has not been castrated. I got my second session on an F-Arc 1200 last week on the dry lake. It was the wildest kiting session I have ever experienced. I have never gone sideways so fast.

As I couldn't bleed off speed effectively I got very good at high speed, large radius turns. Adversity is the mother of invention.

I did so much sliding trying to slow down I took the tires from bald to threads in maybe 20 minutes. My session ended with a POP!

If you are new to Arcs, do NOT buy an F-Arc. Get some experience first before take this for a ride. On the other hand if you like breaking horses, maybe this is the ride for you.

Philip

F-Arcs are amazing. :o Awesome story.