I want to modify my PL XR+ to provide some more back support. If money was not a factor, outside of buying a new bug of course, would you guys recommend something like the VTT XR+ rail kit, or a backrest?

I know an advantage of the rail kit is that it gives you a deeper seat, but does it provide enough back support? I usually ride for at least two hours at a time, usually four hours or more when I go out. When I come back in from the beach I am wiped out and can hardly move because of all the soreness from holding the "Peter Lynn Pose" the whole time.

If I go the backrest route, would that just make me wish I had a deeper seat? I am leaning towards the rail kit over backrest.

What do you guys think?

If you can afford it, go the VTT route. If money is a little tight, Kent at A wind Of Change makes a nice back support for the XR+. You wont have to grab the rails as much with the VTT option.

Kent's mod

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=24261

If I were you, I would save your money on the rail kit and just by a cricket or widow and sell your bug. If you buy the cricket and sell your bug you would roughly spend close to the same money and have a much sturdier buggy all around. Especially your rough beach. It's bound to take it's toll on the xr and you don't want it breaking on a high speed run which I think would only be a matter of time before it happens with how much you ride. Also, I'm not a fan of the backrest. I'm not sure you would want something in the middle of your back that's unforgiving in case something goes wrong.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

If I were you, I would save your money on the rail kit and just by a cricket or widow and sell your bug. If you buy the cricket and sell your bug you would roughly spend close to the same money and have a much sturdier buggy all around. Especially your rough beach. It's bound to take it's toll on the xr and you don't want it breaking on a high speed run which I think would only be a matter of time before it happens with how much you ride.

I agree 100% here.

I looked at the rail kit and while I think it's probably well made and would make a world of difference I think it's like putting a V8 in a chevette. With that said the rail kit is an easy option and it does eliminate the most common area of failure which are the welds between the rail tubes and bracket that bolts to the downtube. (it's still welded there but it would be vtt steel and welded not pl steel and welded)

VTT rail kit all the way... It makes your XR into essentially an all new bug. Not only is the seat deeper with more back support, but it's longer and WAY comfortable. The rails sit up higher on your thighs allowing you to hold yourself down into your buggy with your legs.

My first buggy was the Big Mikes Kites Frankenbuggy which was the XR front end (fork and downtube) the VTT rail kit and seat, and the extra wide PL Bigfoot back axle. I opted for it all on barrows... If you go to Big Mike's site, the Frankenbuggy pictured (with the Baby sitting in it) is mine... And my baby too (Vivian).

http://www.bigmikeskites.com/WebPages/KiteBuggy.html

It was an awesome buggy to start in and now I trust it with my kids as I use it as my tandem.

If I had the cash, I'd pick up Chads VTT buggy; it comes complete with a rail kit.
But I don't.
I do, however, have one of Kents backrests and I love it. It's a quick and easy bolt-on. I have my seat about as low as it'll go and since I don't run overpowered I don't usually have to worry about being launched sideways.
It might be worth a drive to Wildwood next week to check them out (Chads buggy will be there :wee: ).

Damn you Sean! You make such good sense... I wouldn't mind a whole new bug honestly because I ride very hard on my beach. Some of you will see this at jibe But I think your math might be off a little in that a $400 buggy plus a $300 rail kite doesn't quite equal a vtt black widow! It is worth sleeping on though because I'm getting more than I thought for my tax return...

Do it!! Do a VTT buggy. Let your VTT flow :evil:

You will get a fine hand crafted buggy tailor built for you. Van is one of the coolest cats around

On the other hand if weight and ease of transport is a big issue, the rail kit would probably not change the weight and size by much?

Well, I have a lot of things to consider now. The weight and size thing never really occurred to me until I realized I probably won't be able to fit a much bigger bug in my current storage and transport method.

Quote: Originally posted by Demoknight

I want to modify my PL XR+ to provide some more back support. If money was not a factor, outside of buying a new bug of course, would you guys recommend something like the VTT XR+ rail kit, or a backrest? I know an advantage of the rail kit is that it gives you a deeper seat, but does it provide enough back support? I usually ride for at least two hours at a time, usually four hours or more when I go out. When I come back in from the beach I am wiped out and can hardly move because of all the soreness from holding the "Peter Lynn Pose" the whole time. If I go the backrest route, would that just make me wish I had a deeper seat? I am leaning towards the rail kit over backrest. What do you guys think?

Just buy Dino's Apexx. Done

or

Siderails from Van...

Rail kit all the way. I had the first one. I always felt the XR+ was less than confidence inspiring. And definitely uncomfortable. The rail kit changes it completely. It becomes a stable solid buggy that you sit in rather than sit on. Plus you keep the portability factor. Even better if you have the wide axle.

I've been waiting to see if Kent would chime in about his backrest kit. I've been wanting one for a while, but when he made his move, he wasn't producing them at the time. Any updates, Kent?

Quote: Originally posted by bobalooie57

I've been waiting to see if Kent would chime in about his backrest kit. I've been wanting one for a while, but when he made his move, he wasn't producing them at the time. Any updates, Kent?

Same here! I shot him an email about it, I'll let you guys know what he says if he responds to the email first.

Around here PL is famous for welds cracking on the head stock etc. ?

If you ride hard and have a little bit of cash I suggest you sell the PL and buy a buggy that will last . As you suggest you put $300 on a $400 dollar buggy. Now you have a $700 buggy and it is still weak in the front end ? Somehow I think you could spend that $700 on a buggy that will be a step up ?

I think I lost the last of my faith in PL buggies when I noticed Carltb rides for PL on a Flexi' Buggy !

PL are entry level buggies and you are far better to take a step up than to try and beef up a beginner IMHO !

I think I am going to end up hanging on to the PL buggy either way, just because my current living situation is a limiting factor. I live in an apartment in Chicago and do not have a car with me, nor garage to keep a bunch of stuff. I have a little 4'x7' closet that I keep three bikes, set of luggage, two large kite bags, ATB, and my buggy. If I get a larger, heavier buggy, it will have to be once I move back to Georgia. I am stuck here for two more years.

When I move back to Georgia, I am building my own buggy. I used to be a welder by profession, and still have access to industrial steels supplies in GA. But for now, I need my light weight Peter Lynn.

I have to walk a mile and a half each way to get to my local beach, or my friend picks me up and I throw the buggy on his bike rack on the back of his subaru. I would love a 150 lb giant bigfoot buggy. I just can't stow something that big in my current apartment.

Storage, transport, riding style, riding location are all factors. For example, If I had huge riding spots or miles of beach to ride, and a good place to store it when not in use, then a large, heavy buggy probably makes sense. For me, I like to throw the buggy in the back of the truck and just go out for a couple of hours when I have time. I like the fact that it is light and it's not a major pain in the arse to load and unload. So depending on individual circumstance would decide on rail kit or heavy buggy. I would like to know from others who have had welds fail, but I think the most common area of failure would be replaced with the rail kit anyway.

I started with a PL folder. It wasn't for me. Some like them I am a fattie and never felt comfortable. I over compensated and bought the monster buggy without giving any thought as to how big this thing was. Well it sat in my basement for several months before I could use it. Because i couldnt transport the thing. And then it cost me another $400 by the time I mounted a hitch to my car and had a rack made. Sooooo, while the big buggy are great, there are more things to consider.

Demo, if you check out this thread you will see side by side photos of the buggy with and without the rail kit. Aside from it feeling a lot more solid, you will see the difference in the seating position. You will love your buggy alot more. (Van I should get commission here)

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=19088#pid18...

RonH installed a backrest made of PVC pieces and foam. I don't think the parts cost much and it was effective ?

I hear you about living in an apartment and space being an issue. My tiny buggy gets used most while my Ivanpah sits in pieces in the storage shed. The little guy is just so easy to transport and set up.

Hey guys, sill alive! Our backrests are pretty awesome and we completely sold out of em....and since our move, setting up the shop and getting back into production has been much more difficult and has taken much longer than originally expected. We will be going back into production as soon as possible but for right now, we aren't able to produce any more backrests. I hope to have something going as soon as business and such slows down enough to breathe. Hopefully in another month we can get some produced and get them back out to everyone who has been waiting.

We'll have them back up on our website and make an announcement as soon as they are back available again.

i've got both. A VTT Black widow and a PL xr+ with the rail kit.

The xr+ i couldn't ride long distances in until i got the rail kit. I use this buggy to tandem and if i want to toss something in the truck quick as it is really light compared to the Black Widow.

The Black widow is a great cruiser, but since i got bigfoots on it, its not as much fun to transport and weighs alot. But for long runs, this is what you want.

Soccer fields, xr+ w rail kit
Beach , IBB, etc. VTT Black Widow or similar big buggy.