After doing some research and reading through these forums in the newbie post and the various recommendations for newbie kites I have come to a few conclusions and would like some help if at all possible.

My goals include land use without a board. So I want to keep it in the scudding and later small jumping range. I am 6’4” and 190lbs. I understand the risk of purchasing a kite that is too large for me yet I would rather have one with 4 lines and something that I can train with in low winds and use later for some small jumping.

I was originally going to purchase a Prism Stylus P.3 from Amazon and realized that it would not be the best option for me. It seems as if it doesn’t have as much power and the idea of buying a 2 lined kite didn’t appeal to me after doing some more research.

Later I found a few kites on eBay that look like they might be a good deal for my goals. They are either the FLEXIFOIL 4.0M BLADE 3 or FLEXFOIL 5.5M BLADE 3.

Do you think that with the 4M considering my size and weight that I would be able to get any lift out of it? My major concern with shooting higher at the 5.5M is that it is my first kite and I didn’t want something too overpowering. Also, I didn’t want to buy something in the 2-3M range and get bored with it. I figured if I did purchase a kite I should go in the mid range with 4 lines so that I have some options later on and can start in some very low winds.

Considering I am very safety minded and a big guy would you guys recommend that I start in low winds with one of the medium sized kites (4-5.5M)? Do you think that the Blade 3’s will allow me enough lift after I have built some confidence to enjoy myself or will they not be strong enough to allow me glide back down to the ground without many problems?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

It's not recommended to start off with a lifty kite for the exact reasons that you stated above. Looks like you made a good choice too by holding off on the purchase of the P3. From what I've heard and read they don't have much pull nor would they be at all lifty.

If you get something like a HQ Beamer or Flexifoil Bullet (which do not have as much lift) you still have the potential of being lifted in higher winds ..but also dropped just as quickly. So there is some lift in those kites, it's not something that people try to seek so much with those styles though.


The lifty kites like the HQ Crossfires and Flexi Blades tend to be a little more floaty on the coming down and they give you a hint when they want to take off too. Downside of these kites is potential for more of a hurting, they're intermediate / advanced static kites (which means that they don't tend to be as forgiving in different wind conditions as well as possibly overflying or flying outside of the wind window..unlike the Beamers and Bullets which tend to be just the opposite and much easier for learning purposes).

Overall, there are a lot of pros and cons that you should weigh in about before making that purchase. If you haven't already noticed, quite a lot of these forums have for sale sections where you can pick up a used kite for a relatively decent price. It may hurt less to go the Beamer / Bullet route for your first kite since there is a lot of safety stuff that you should learn before jumping up in there air and such. Then either fork over for a Blade or Crossfire once you have a bit of experience under your belt. All of the kites I mentioned I've seen numerous times in the for sale section..so used shouldn't be out of the question.

Regardless of what you choose, try to stay in the 3m to 4m size range, I believe the P3 was actually moreso in the 2m range.. (possibly smaller of that range for either the Crossfire or Blade). Good size kites for your size and they'll give you a run for your money in the higher wind range once you get use to the lower wind range first.
Hope this helps a little...
Joe

If you want to get a lot of use out of the kite with a wide wind range, you could get away with a kite that's fairly predictable, but not super lifty in a 3-4m size. Once again, I spit out the tried and true response, Beamers, Busters, and Radsails. They've got more than enough potential to get you going, no shortage of power, priced reasonably enough lift to do some "Smaller" jumps when powered right up. But mellow enough and easy enough to fly to learn on a slightly bigger kite.

If you try and learn on a lifty kite, it may go well and you get away with it, but you could also earn yourself a trip to the emergency. People aren't bulletproof. We've got one local, been flying for a couple months, he thinks learning to jump involves his blade IV 8.5m kite and 15-20mph winds, he's about 175lbs. No idea what real control is and he won't listen to reason, We've started a pool as to how long till he's hospitalized. You don't want to be that guy.

I know with some common sense you can learn on a 4m Buster II, Radsail Pro, or the Beamer II, just start in low winds, get one of those kites and never look back. They're cheap enough to keep for a while, get some larger kites as you learn and then in time replace them with lifty kites whey you can handle them.

Something else to consider..while you may think that buying a kite like the Beamer II, Busters, Radsails and Bullets may be a waste of money since you're just purchasing it to learn on...take a look at the majority of people on this forum and other forums at their quivers ( a lot of which have their quivers listed in their signature).

Most everyone buys with the same intent as yourself..purchase a starter kite to learn, sell it later on for something bigger and "better". Most everyone on here and other forums end up keeping their first kites or buying a similar starter (maybe smaller or larger pending) to use for higher wind conditions. So more then likely you'll end up in the same boat..you'll love the ease of use and forgivingness, amongst other characteristics of the beginner kites and they can definitely provide their moneys worth of fun in the right wind conditions.

A friend of mine bought a HQ beamer TSR 3.6 that lifted him a good 4' ..he's use to flying mostly inflatables in water conditions, so he was a bit surprised when such a small kite packed that much punch. In the right conditions anything is pretty possible with these kites (including getting sent to the hospital).

100% agree with Pablo..don't be that guy that people are placing bets on when they'll get hurt or fly away.
You'll save yourself medical expenses and a lot of frustration purchasing something that you can actually learn with.

Hey, for the high sketchy winds, the entry level kites are awesome, I still fly the busters in smaller sizes, my buddy still drags out his old radsail for the same purposes. When the wind's crazy enough to need the small kites, the last thing you want is something that'll bite, usually by that point it's come down to survival mode.

I won't repeat the good advice here, but I will add that there are still some of Ted Dougherty's Pro-Foils around at about half price.

A 3.5 m would do you well, giving you good predictable power that won't get you in trouble (in moderate winds) and it won't frustrate a novice.

Add $50 to $75 for lines and maybe $18 for kite killers and you still have a bargain for a kite that you will never outgrow

Thank you all so much for your advice. I took it all into consideration and was about to purchase a Flexi Blade before coming across code’s post about them being quite lifty.

I was doing some searches on eBay and came across some Bullets that were going for a little less than half price (retail) and brand new. Now I realize that most beginners make the mistake of going too large at first and I am really afraid I might have made the same error but also I believe that after going through your posts and reading more and discussing a bit with a friend of mine who has been power kiting for years I ended up on this guy:

FLEXIFOIL 2005 BULLET 5.5 RED/BLACK/WHITE POWER KITE

I really hope that I didn’t make the wrong decision with a 5.5M kite as my first but as I said before I am extremely safety conscious and will be wearing appropriate padding and a helmet as well as keeping it to very minimal winds in the beginning. Considering that these kites have significantly less lift as well I think that in low wind conditions I shouldn’t be too bad off.

If I have made a serious lapse in judgment please feel free to correct me. I would rather have professional input before going out and killing myself. The price between the 5.5M and similar 2M were comparable and I felt like I was going to be getting a much better deal by purchasing the larger one, being more cautious and then having something later that I can enjoy and not have to sell back. Also it seems from reviews that it is a fairly predictable kite and some reviews even recommend it as a beginner level design.

Also it seems as if this kite has a safety system that look to be kite killers. Is this the case? Is there anything else that I should review or purchase before getting out in a very low wind to try it out for the first time?

Thank you again for all of your assistance and recommendations.

What part about this don't you get?

You will be getting more fabric for the money but less kite, in terms of usable wind range. If you are safety consious as you say (and I laud you for that), then you will be waiting for a window of about 3 mph for your first flight and how long will that take?

I have a 5.5 m foil and I love it but it rarely comes out of the bag.
I was wanting to show a freind about traction kites one day at the beach and when He showed up, I had the 5.5 m out of the bag in 5mph winds. When it got to 6 mph I could barely finesse it into the air. It did not pull to hard for a novice but he did not know how to fly it (and keep it moving properly). He had to leave soon after. 20 min later I had solid 7-8 mph and it flew great and would have been OK for him. 10 min after that I had steady 9 mph and it would have been too much for a first timer.

A 3 or 4 meter kite will have a good novice range or sweet spot for learning of 8 -14 mph- Twice that of the 5.5. For me, that is more kite for less money.

Sorry for the terseness. Sounds like you will be careful and at least you have some experienced freinds to help, but it will just take longer- mostly waiting and being rightfully afraid of winds that others would jump into with a grin.

So you got a smoking deal on a mid sized kite, I'd be happy about that and consider it a good purchase. Most kiters end up with 2-3 kites that they use, low wind, med and high.

What you need to do now is track down a cheap high wind kite. I've seen 3m Buster I's going for $160-180us. There's lots of deals on other kites and used gear as well. If you get a 3m to put some real time on then you'll be able to step up to the 5.5m no problem. You'll also end up with a huge wind range between the 2 kites once you're good at handling them.

Getting a cheap 3m will also save your nice 5.5m from some unneeded wear and tear.

A 5.5 bullet is a GREAT kite. It's NOT a trainer so be sure to treat it that way. I'm 145lbs and my 4.5 is my bread and butter. A local has the 5.5 and it's perfect for him at about 200.lbs He even jumps on his KGB style. He got it cheap because another local bought it as his 1st kite and got spanked so bad he turned away from the sport completely.
Try to get some time in on a 3m before you try this kite in anything like wind. If lessons are available I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you take one. It will speed things up a lot.You have a good kite but....
Be afraid, be VERY afraid, and I expect you'll get on fine. Don't hesitate to let go of the handles and have FUN !!!!!

acampbell, Pablo and snowbird, thank you all for your input and reassurance. I was so scared that I had made a huge mistake and was going to be blown away in 5mph winds. I think it is a great idea and plan to enlist for lessons before taking the kite out for the first time. Hopefully someone here in San Diego will be willing to teach on a 3M. Do any of you know where I might be able to post or PM someone from San Diego that might be willing to take me out on their kite for a small rental/lesson fee?

Also, I have been thinking about places in San Diego to take the kite out to for training purposes. I think that any place people are present is going to be a bad idea so the beaches are most likely out until I have some semblance of control over the kite in low winds. Also from reading the reviews here most of the beaches in San Diego that allow power kites have directional winds that point towards the water, which would result in a cold and messy lesson this time of year.

Is there a place online where I can search for wide open areas in San Diego where power kiting would be acceptable (somewhere with steady winds, decent ground, no planes overhead and no people present)? My first reaction was regional parks but most of them are very desert like and have rocky/rough terrain.

Thanks again for all the support and help; I really can't wait to get more involved here and with the sport in general. I'm looking forward to the workout and fun that all of you have described in your previous posts.

Try www.kiteforum.com. It's got a huge membership. Typically the 1st lesson is around $100 . It will be THE BEST money you can possibly spend. + a great place to go for follow up info. Lessons are usually set up in 3 stages. The second 2 are more on how to get up + going on the water. In the 1st lesson they will probably take you to the point of your 1st " body drags " in the water. This will be good for you even if you want to be on land as you can figure out control while being dragged but be safer in water.
Have FUN !!!!

Super...there are actually quite a few locals to you that I'm sure wouldn't mind showing you some stuff. Also, there are a few schools where you can take classes..mind you, the ones that I found when I went out to visit my brother in Laguna Hills, they aren't that close. A few hours travel to a class definitely beats a few hours or so at the hospital though.

There's a kite shop in Dana Point area, just south of Laguna area that you may want to check out. I can't think of the name of hand. Also, Madkiting.com is located further north and they offer classes at several places...like huntington, etc. Seal Beach seems to be a hot spot for classes as well since it's a big kitesurfing spot. Leebrian ( another member on here from out near me) went to visit some friends out there not too long ago and said that El Mirage, Ivanpah Dry Lake and Pismo Beach seemed pretty good too.

I'm not saying to go to these places and overwhelm the kiters with questions and such, but I think you'll learn quite a bit by watching them and find them to be more then willing to offer you suggestions, help, etc. The kiting community is a pretty close group as you can see from on here..so they tend to really watch over one another. They may also know of better spots to get lessons as well.

Most of the kiting instructors at the shops out there are typically PASA certified and they tend to cover "everything" moreso then some friends and people that you may meet on the beach. Take the lessons if at all able...they're definitely worth their weight in gold and go watch some people at the spots I posted, ask some questions, etc. You've got some sweet spots out there...Before you know it you'll be just as hooked as the rest of us. Congrats on the kite purchase too!
~Joe

How about the "Strand" (the strip of beach south of Coronado and the Navy Amphib base)? That area of the beach is usually empty this time of year (I lived in SD before picking up kiting).

I've been following this thread as I will be making the transition from kite surfing (using Peter Lynn Phantom 15 and Venom 19) to kite snowboarding / landboarding. I've been thinking about adding a smaller kite to my quiver but have almost zero non-depowering foil experience. I weigh 240 and am looking at the Pro-foils and other older generation kites because of the price. I won't be jumping, just cruising. Would a 3.5 or 4 be too small for me? Or should I just bite the bullet and stick with PL's?

superlativequip - I shot you a U2U.

Big....From what I've read quite a few people love the PL's for kiting on land as well and love'm. If you just want to cruise then maybe a Beamer, Bullet or Pro-foil (something a bit smaller with less lift) would be the way to go. Also, if you like depower...the HQ Apex is coming out this year which is depowerable and doesn't have much lift. The Ozone access is similar to that as well (depowerable)...reduced lift and more so a pulling kite. If you're looking for a little more freestyle type stuff then stick with what you've got...a decent all purpose kite.
~Joe

P.L. Arcs are a GREAT choice for land. They are a bit lifty for buggy riders but for all other aspects they are safe and effecient. Great snow kite with minor bow tie issues. Also some of the best second hand prices I see. As you probably know they have a definate bottom end so aren't the best low wind kite ( I think you get a lot of that in S.D. ) also you fly an arc different. So I see BIG advantages in sticking with what you know.
For low wind, It seems the 13m Century is becoming our 1st kite pulling by a good bit around here.

Thanks guys. Guess I'll stick with what I know and keep an eye out for a smaller arc.

Yeah, for bottom end I haven't found anything that even comes close to the 13m Century, well exept a certain 16m RM+

But for low wind you really need a kite specialized for it. I was out in a blistering 4mph today, getting some powerslides in with the 13m.

If you're looking for something to go under your 15m arc though, you should be able to find a smaller arc for a reasonable price, you're already familiar with how they fly and they love being powered up so it should be a brilliant kite.

The 13m Century must be a pretty awesome kite, I've heard a lot of good stuff about them. Anyone use Flysurfers? On the water with my Venom 19 I'm good down to 15mph, but if it dips below that I'm sunk. I'll probably add a bigger board for now, but have thought about a bigger foil for those days when the wind doesn't quite make it up to 15mph. I could go with a big inflato, but then I'd have to pump it up

I just purchased a 13m Flysurfer Pulse for land (buggy or board). I should have it next week.

I've heard great things about Flysurfers!

Our 1st man out on the water by A LOT uses a 21m Flysurfer Phsyco 2 . ( I heard he moved to bows ) NICE kite !!!!
I bought his 10 and it definately has a bottom end of about 7mph.. I'm 145lbs.

Snowbird - have you used the Psycho with your buggy much?

I like the 3m Sami for learning.. Great little kite that does have pull when its windy( Im 6'5 and around 235 and scuds me around easy ).. You wont out grow it,because its nice on High wind days.. I have the 4.9m BladeIV and I use it only on perfect wind days.. Nice to have,but the Sami is still used more because wind here is normally to fast for me and my blade

Good luck and tons of fun
Peace