I'm looking for a training kite for my kids ages 12 and 14. They weigh about 120lbs or so each.

They have both been out with me but I'm scared to let them try my bigger/more high performance kites.

I'm looking at the HQ Hydra II because being able to use it in water would be great. But is this still going to be too much kite? Do I need to start with something less powerful than the Hydra?

What kite/size recommendations do you have?

How bout an Ozone Imp Quattro 1.5m? I've given that to some of my friends when the 2.5m is too much. Any low aspect similar sized kite (PKD Buster, HQ Beamer, Flexifoil Sting, PL Hornet 2m, Zebra Checka) would also do nicely. And when it's 25 knots, you can have some fun in the buggy with it :D Although none of them are water friendly, but I believe there may be some Leading Edge Inflatable trainer kites around 2.5m...Ozone Uno? not sure about price on those.

I think the Hydra II 300, (3M) would be fine for them to learn on, just be mindful of the wind they take it out in, keeping it in the 10-12mph range until they get a good understanding of the wind.

What kites do you fly now? I'm surprised you would need to ask if you've had experience with power kites. Not trying to be a butthead but that's the first thing that came to my mind.

Edit: Honestly not trying to be negative but I was more curious. Welcome to the forum.

Toxic and Ace are the kites I fly but I don't get much time in so I'm looking for recommendations from more experienced flyers.

welcome...im w/ bobalooie, its a good choice and its great to be able to play in the water...they will want to

Ah, I see. Yeah the ace would probably not be the best choice to learn on. At 12 and 14 your lucky if they are interested in flying. That's about the age mine became less interested. The hydra's would be nice if water relaunch is important or a standard 4 line kite like a pkd buster soulfly, hq beamer, PL hornet and the like. I would say 3 meter size if your average winds range from 10 - 15. If they are usually high teens then maybe a 2 meter.

Buster soulfly, great kite and looks awesome.
http://www.pkdkitesusa.com/products/Buster-Soulfly.html

What are your "high performance " kites ?

Honestly, both my boys were established fliers by that size/age. My rule became you can fly whatever you want as long as you can get back to where you launched. You fly the kite first to check it's ok for conditions and then certainly a properly sized Toxic should be fine. Some Aces were brutal kites to fly and I wouldn't recommend them for someone learning.

The 3m will be ok in lighter winds, and as they grow they can use it in stronger winds.

I have been teaching kitesurfing for 10 years/riding for 14 years. I have found that kites smaller than 3m do not have good all-around properties. The smaller kites fly OK but they are too fast for simulating the feel of a large kite. Also they just do not have the same feel of "power" that the 3m kite has.

Yes, it is important to supervise the use/understand the upper limits for any kite and whoever is piloting it. That's just part of the deal with kiting in general. But I honestly believe a 3m kite is the best all-purpose size.

Another way to modulate the power of virtually any kite - change line lengths. for example, If you want the 3m kite to have less power you could put some 15m lines on it.

I do this quite often with 5m, 8m, 11m, 15m inflatables - I switch between 2 bars - one with standard 24M line and the other with 3m extensions. The differences in performance are significant.

I have a 2.5m that I also use for light people when it's really windy, but ironically I like this smaller kite on long lines to slow the kite down a bit - although it does add some power. I think for most people the hard part about learning good kite control is if the kite is too "nervous" and reaction time of the beginner is not adequate to correct for mistakes. A slower, more stable kite allows people to minimize pilot error and correct mistakes before crashing or looping the kite out of control.


I've got a few beautiful HQ Rush Pro 3m trainers for sale
listed on Craigs List

http://muskegon.craigslist.org/spo/4721358799.html

(I also have a couple of used harnesses for sale, and some new Dakine Nitrous shorts)

ps...while I believe the 3m is a good size I ALWAYS tell people to be careful with it in strong winds as these small kites can generate a lot of power especially with an inadvertent power stroke...the best thing is to LET GO with both hands - which must be done very spontaneously...but always better to start out in light wind...7-10 kts would be ideal to start. If you have a harness with a handle on the back (like a kitesurfing harness typically has) it is sometimes good to have a heavier person holding you if you think it's enough to be lofted. Remember that most trainer kites do not have a "depower" feature so the power of the kite - too much or too little power- also depends on how well you fly it.

Also, do not confuse a "sheetable" foil with a 2-line foil that has what looks like a depower line running thru the bar. This is probably a safety/relaunch bridle and NOT a depower trim line, like you would see on the larger power kites. A sheetable foil is great but a decent one will probably be 2-3x the cost of a "trainer" kite. If you wanted to go that way I would highly recommend looking at the Flysurfer Peak2 4m or 6m. I would be happy to discuss the pros and cons of going in either direction.

The Hydra is 3 line on a bar. Not that, that is a bad way to go.

Since you seem to not mind Pansh the Adam may be something to look at? It is closed cell 4 line and the kids can fly on handles like you do. I thought they had a size smaller than 3.5? ( note, it comes kite only )

Kids learn real fast. They might get bored / turned off if you start out too small? I wouldn't think 3m is too big and Hydra is a good kite. 3.5???? Depends on your winds.

I used to fly my 3m trainer kite on the water in the shallows. If I crashed it I had to roll it up and start over on the beach. Great incentive not to crash!

Lots of good advice from 4w. I would take a look at the Rush Pro's he has up.

The Hydra is a great trainer kite. It's tough, predictable, slow and wide turning so not too zippy and in high winds it can be used to ride with. And water relaunchable is awesome.

But kite's in the 3m range like the Hydra or Rush, can generate a ton of power in the right gust or if put in the wrong spot in the window at the wrong time. Really it comes down to wind range you plan to fly in. Any kite will work in the right wind ranges. Kepp in mind posted wind ranges from the manufacture are very general, based on kiters in the 160-180lb range and somethimes based on water. So read the specs carefully.

As you stated "They have both been out with me but I'm scared to let them try my bigger/more high performance kites. " tells me you are looking for something that they can fly to build handling skills and muscle memory and pretty much take risk of being lofted or dragged out of the equation.

For me the kites that immediately come to mind in would be the HQ Symphony TR 2 line trainers. We use them in a program we put together for a local middle school and the results are amazing. One of the smallest kids in the program is 65lbs (65lbs of fury she say's) and she can manage the TR in winds gusting to 25kts no problem. The windier it is the faster they go but they're still manageable and they relaunch well for a two line kite. Super user friendly. Blade is right, kids learn crazy fast but I would bet that they would not get bored anytime soon on the TR any faster than any other purpose built trainer. They're a ton of fun to fly and the windier, (30kts is a hoot) the better.

For a four line option on handles the HQ Alpha comes in sizes as small as 1.5 like the TR. Also a ton of fun but with four lines and as I said on handles.

Another option would be the Peter Lynn Vibe. Very similar to the two options I've covered. Same kind of animal, same kind of price ranges, maybe a little more refined. The trick is to find a Peter Lynn dealer that carries them. We don't as we don't do many sales in trainer kites but I would bet Big Mike's Kites probably carries them.

Let 'em cut thier teeth on the fun factor based trainers and then get 'em on a Hydra. Build the muscle memory on something that won't break the kid (if you're really nervous about that) or the bank for that matter. :D

Yeah well...I definitely don't advocate being unsafe or going out in stronger winds than you and/or the kite can handle. Obviously that's going to be based on weight, wind velocity, pilot skills, etc.

But another reason for voting for a 3m is that the smaller kite will probably become very boring rather quickly (especially for kids) and will be less useful in average winds (I do not want to assume what your average winds are so that you must determine)

In my experience the feedback I get from students is that they enjoy the feeling of "power" in moderate winds more than they enjoy the feeling of a fast kite, ratehr powerless kite in strong winds. It's great to learn how to fly a kite skillfully in light wind and to learn have fun with it. A small kite can pull hard too if it's super windy out, but the kite will be really twitchy. And a smaller kite will only work nicely (be fun) in a narrower range of wind.

Usually during lessons my students initial thrill is learning how to get comfortable with the power of a 3m foil, then learning all the drills we do on land that require a nice smooth power delivery...which is hard to get with a smaller kite.

Once they have these basic skills on dry the next thrill for them is dragging in the water, or (in a snowkiting lesson) being pulled over the snow.

In the long run I think the 3m will be a much more useful tool and more fun for everyone.

timetokite, since you already know how to fly a kite, if you are willing to pay postage i will send you a 3m kite and if you want to fly it and decide you can buy it...if not you can send it back.

send me an email if interested and we can sort the details.

I'd suggest a 3M Beamer or maybe the 2.5M Buster Soulfly. I ended up getting two of the latter (it and one size down) to use for friends trying it out when my Beamer was too much, and they double as high wind kites for me.

Will put this out there just because it's still below most radar....

HQ Rush V Pro School
The Rush V Pro School is a simple, affordable and durable ram-air depower trainer. It is an ideal kiteboarding trainer for schools, operating and functioning the same as larger depower kites. The Rush School trainer is responsive, smooth and stable. The 3m size has just enough power to ensure beginners will be ready to progress to the next level.

The Rush School works with a sheetable bar system, allowing an easy progression onto a larger depower kite after learning the basics:

• complete package including de-power control bar and chicken loop
  
• flying lines already attached to the kite
  
• easy handling - uncomplicated flight characteristics
  
• wide useable wind range

Land use only.

For land and water, John still sells the modded (depower) Hydra in two sizes, that's still manageable by young 'uns.



ATB,
Sam

^^^so we are talking Powerzone here i assume?? great picture

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

^^^so we are talking Powerzone here i assume??

Yes... Powerzone Kites Sports. The hyperlink leads to the page with info on the modded Hydras.

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

great picture

Indeed, finely captures the all important use of the tongue to facilitate greater kite control.

ATB,
Sam

I always recommend a 2 or 3m kite to start. its hard to beat a 2m Hornet to learn 4 line skills. I've got some on special on this post
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=29574


video here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACy6As27Pow&list=UUGjDfg...

Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf

Will put this out there just because it's still below most radar.... HQ Rush V Pro School ATB, Sam

That modified Hydra looks interesting. I am wondering what the specs are on the bar/lines and QR, etc. Wonder why did HQ not offer this themselves...hmmm? I would love totry one. It would be interesting to hear some comparisons directly from an experienced kiter. At $455-$555 it's a bit more than a simple 3m trainer kite, but perhaps it is a good option.

a small NPW 5 like this one is very good for new kite people.