Listen guys please be careful when buying used stuff online. ill try to make my story short and too the point.

I was looking to buy a used high end Flysurfer kite and came across a good deal on ikitesuf .com. The kite was reasonable priced and I contacted the seller. I received a reply within 2 or three hours telling me that the kite was still available for sale and in excellent condition just send my name and adress so that they can ship out the kite via registered express mail guaranteed delivery. LOL well I buy a lot of things online and I know those words VERY well because I have heard them before. - I decided to just google if ikitesuft was a good place to buy used stuff and received some pointers that will I share -

1) Get a phone number and address to contact the person selling the kite
2) Never send money via western union or bank transfer. use paypal or an escrow service
3) Get the seller on the telephone and ask a detailed question that the only the owner of the kite would know for instance what is the color of the 5th line , etc

I agreed to the deal just out of curiosity and asked the guy to send pics of the kites and within another hour I received another email with some pics and telling me they accept money transfer or western union. that right there was the final clue. Also the kite was dirty and the bar had tape on parts of it hardly the excellent condition he stated eairlier. the thief didn't even take the time to steal good pics. LOL immediately asked for a telephone number and address so I can contact them and told them I only use paypal .
Long story short I never received a reply. This is becoming a huge problem and is apparently a well organised operation . They are doing this in all areas of --for sale classified ads, I have seen it in apartment listings ,kites listings, dating websites and basically any place where u can sell used stuff or service . I have even recently seen phony websites selling kite stuff. I guess they just steal your credit card info when u enter it.
The sellers usually have convincing phony storys , ex just bough a quiver of kites but don't need them anymore just broke foot , or I would love to speak on the phone but my granny died and I'm in kazakstan attending her funeral right now. etc Another method is they copy and steal legitimate photos and words from unsuspecting people and create their own fake lisitngs. These people are making a killing and law enforcement cant do much about it because they are located in foreign countries or just don't have the resources to go after these criminals. Just wanted to share my story and to say BUYER BEWARE.

Thanks.

Theives are everywhere. you were right ot use caution. its pretty scary in general.

There is definitely a lot of risk in buying online from a stranger. I have been immensely lucky in that all of my transactions online have been legit and really pleasant experiences. But yeah, definitely listen to that spidey sense if it tingles... especially from ikitesurf or craigslist -- not as much from nwkite or here, IMO. A quick phone call can go a long way to sussing out whether or not you're making a mistake.

I had the same thing happen to me on ikitesurf, only I was the seller. Put my kite up for sale on that site and immediately was propositioned with the same kind of deal. Smelled fishy right from the get go. I called them out on the deal right away and never got a response back. Fortunately I found someone on this forum willing to buy, so I didn't have to deal with scammers. It's an unfortunate reality that this happens. I think this is what makes this site very special to it's members. A Good trader list helps us all make good decisions.

Just a thought, but we seem to have a number of posts lately from people who have only 1 or a few posts and then want to buy or sell something. May well be just fine, but who knows? Should we consider a policy that you can only list a buy or sell if you have say X number of posts already. X=25? 50? 100? (Of course, we could all make that our own personal rule). Might be a little hard on sincere newcomers but better safe than sorry.

yes I have seen this 30 post rule on other forums. the key is to just follow the advice above and contact the seller and verify sellers knowledge of what they are selling and get up to date pictures and use a reputable payment method like paypal. and if anything dosent seem right then don't go through with the deal.

As long as you do a proper Buyer/seller checklist ...... from questions, pictures... to INSURED transaction(like PayPal).....it is okay to buy from a first time poster. No new rule needed.

Remember the 'one' where a military man (officer?) overseas claimed he didn't get his item from one of our sellers....made a nasty fuss, even threatened a slander suit ...and then another one of our sharp witted capable PKF members did detective like work to find this guy with the item in a picture posted on -I think it was- Facebook?



Nice to have folks looking out for each other.

I've sold a few kites lately and have offered some potential buyers a live video tour of my kite on FaceTime or Skype. Thus far only one buyer has taken me up on the offer, and I think we both had a decent experience.

Quote: Originally posted by Randy

Should we consider a policy that you can only list a buy or sell if you have say X number of posts already. X=25? 50? 100?

Running up post counts can be pretty easy to do and volume of posts does not necessarily translate to quality of the poster. I've seen some pretty dumb and annoying people on other forums with super high post counts who add little to no value to any discussion. I'd be just as weary of them as someone with only 1 post.

One very useful function I have seen on other forums is "reputation" where users can bump other users reputation based on the quality of their posts or the information they share. Not sure if this forum has that functionality but that is a great way to feel confident in a buyer if numerous others have regularly endorsed them. Sort of like the "best sellers" thread but its an actual number posted in your profile like your post count.

Conversely, you can also add negative reputation to those who post incorrect or misleading information or are just plain annoying.

Good point.

I was selling on here as a 1 post buyer. I think everyone i've dealt with has been reasonably satisfied. Quantity of posts does not a honest seller make.

Quote: Originally posted by MotoFoo86

I was selling on here as a 1 post buyer. I think everyone i've dealt with has been reasonably satisfied. Quantity of posts does not a honest seller make.

I've been on here a couple years now and you can usually tell if a deal is ligit even from a first time poster.

There has been certain kites posted for sale lately that I didn't know what to think at first but now seems pretty clear that it is not legit. First time I've seen that since I've been a member.

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington

As long as you do a proper Buyer/seller checklist ...... from questions, pictures... to INSURED transaction(like PayPal).....it is okay to buy from a first time poster. No new rule needed. Remember the 'one' where a military man (officer?) overseas claimed he didn't get his item from one of our sellers....made a nasty fuss, even threatened a slander suit ...and then another one of our sharp witted capable PKF members did detective like work to find this guy with the item in a picture posted on -I think it was- Facebook? Nice to have folks looking out for each other.

i remember that ! sometime about "shipped to the commissary"
man that was crap load.

here's a different short story - a guy drives over last year to buy a kite+board+harness in person and harness ends don't come close because of a gun in his pants

Doh! Are you sure he wasn't just happy to see you? :evil:

Quote: Originally posted by grigorib

here's a different short story - a guy drives over last year to buy a kite+board+harness in person and harness ends don't come close because of a gun in his pants

what about the guy on ebay 15 and 18m phantom(or his sister was doing it for him??something like that )

i was into the 18m , won it , paid , deal goes bad ... cats in jail... no kite !..$ comesback!

who had the other?? macboy? like 7years ago! anyone know where i could buy a 11m chronos 2?

good one grigorib, our world lives in such fear our spiritual advancement will be forever crippled by it...who ever thought peace would be so brutal . we are 10x stronger than our fearful ego allows. hope you gave comfort, so as to allow proper fitment of harness. everyone carries their peaze differently, oneday we'll get it together

Most of guys kept their cash in the car when meeting in person and went back to get it once they decided to buy gear.

Another guy hands over an envelope of tens/fifths/twonies....Instant flashback to student years when every buck was so valuable, so not easy to make and save

I also believe in making sure you follow good buying and selling behavior. When I use PayPal I always put a very exacting description of what I am buying or selling so that if something does go bad I can point to exactly what I was describing. I have purchased many things from the internet and have never had a problem. You can also tell from how the person types an e-mail as well, at least usually If they use full sentences, talk about the product, etc. they are probably more on the up-and-up side of things.

Paypal can offer some buyer protection, but be aware of its limits. Use a credit card with paypal, so you can at least dispute the payment with your credit card company. I don't know the current limit to file a dispute with paypal, it may only be 45 days. With that being the case, avoid buying kites from overseas. I am in the U.S. and paid a buyer in the U.K. in 2007 and still haven't received the kite. The seller claimed to ship the kite by boat (not air) so told me to be patient. Sure enough the paypal buyer dispute 45 day limit passed and I never received the kite (and didn't use a credit card with paypal). I've bought lots of kites over the years and that was my only negative experience.
reference:
http://forum.kitecrowd.com/bar-zone/how-long-does-take-mail-...
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-claims-Arch...

Damn. Thanks for the heads up and collective wisdom on the hazards associated with on-line kite purchasing and selling. Who would've guessed? Sadly, not me.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Frank

Quote: Originally posted by B-Roc

Quote: Originally posted by Randy   Should we consider a policy that you can only list a buy or sell if you have say X number of posts already. X=25? 50? 100? Running up post counts can be pretty easy to do and volume of posts does not necessarily translate to quality of the poster. I've seen some pretty dumb and annoying people on other forums with super high post counts who add little to no value to any discussion. I'd be just as weary of them as someone with only 1 post. One very useful function I have seen on other forums is "reputation" where users can bump other users reputation based on the quality of their posts or the information they share. Not sure if this forum has that functionality but that is a great way to feel confident in a buyer if numerous others have regularly endorsed them. Sort of like the "best sellers" thread but its an actual number posted in your profile like your post count. Conversely, you can also add negative reputation to those who post incorrect or misleading information or are just plain annoying.

This is a very good approach. I don't know a lot about programing but suspect it can be done in this format?

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Quote: Originally posted by B-Roc   Quote: Originally posted by Randy   Should we consider a policy that you can only list a buy or sell if you have say X number of posts already. X=25? 50? 100? Running up post counts can be pretty easy to do and volume of posts does not necessarily translate to quality of the poster. I've seen some pretty dumb and annoying people on other forums with super high post counts who add little to no value to any discussion. I'd be just as weary of them as someone with only 1 post. One very useful function I have seen on other forums is "reputation" where users can bump other users reputation based on the quality of their posts or the information they share. Not sure if this forum has that functionality but that is a great way to feel confident in a buyer if numerous others have regularly endorsed them. Sort of like the "best sellers" thread but its an actual number posted in your profile like your post count. Conversely, you can also add negative reputation to those who post incorrect or misleading information or are just plain annoying. This is a very good approach. I don't know a lot about programing but suspect it can be done in this format?

It would improve the manners of many and make some others as insignificant as they should be.

Good information, even if old, is worth remembering.
Almost everything I learned about on-line commerce, I learned in Brady Bunch episode #53.
I've had the good fortune of having dealings with many of our PKF family, and I've never had any problems. Any I wouldn't expect to. I trust those that are trusted by people I know, and I wouldn't consider otherwise.
(Sam, wanna provide the reference?)