Hi,

I am sort of a noob. I am trying to find a kite for me. I currently have several 2008 slingshots but havent used them much because NM sucks for water kiting. I also have a peak2 and i have been using it a lot on land, since thats all we really get. I want to get into water more than land or snow but i want the ability for both. so far everything i read suggests flysurfer speed is my best option for that. any thoughts? does anyone have one i can try? i got some miles on my card and unburned vacation time i can use to get out somewhere. would hate to buy a 1500$ and find out i dont like it.

The speeds are very good kites. I upgraded my qiver to mostly them for the same reason as i can do land and if i choose in the future i can do water also. Go with the lotus speeds 4 if u do decide to buy . They are very expensive but worth the money. The only issue i see is the fabric is very thin . So im not sure how many
Years of use u will get out of them. Another alternative is the hq matrix. I trust hq kites i have never had any problems with them either. You can get a good deal on the speeds just look around on ebay or the used section of kite forums. Bye the way wht state are u in. Im in nyc. One other piece Of adviae is to choose your Size wisely . The SPeeds are about 1 size dwn compared to a similar foil. And compared to a modern day sle water kite only 1 or 2 sizes up max. So go with a bigger size if in doubt.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=31446

There is a link to a guy renting one. John with powerzone is great to work with.

Thanks for replies I'm going to see if i can get that speed to try out.

I'm in New Mexico. Yeah, sizing on speed and hq matrixx confuses me but i guess i'll see how that 8m compares to my 11 LEI and and 6m peak2.

I havent been able to find any good deals on speeds, or any other flysurfers for that matter one night after a few drinks i started looking for used peak 9m and even with a buzz i couldnt bring myself to put that money into a kite i'll only use hand full of times in a year

ok cool, yeah speeds are very expensive, its more of a kite for a experienced kiter who has been kiting a while and may be just want something top of the line.

Pansh has just come out with a new depower kite.

The A15 is getting some decent reviews. As always with Pansh you may need to do some fine tuning.
I think Hardwaterkiter said " an option for those who want to buy new at about the cost of a second hand Flysurfer" .
This kite is on sale for an intro price right now.
One draw back of going Pansh is when you want to resell. It won't likely hold it's value but you sort of get your discount going in?

Speed deluxe 2 and 3's are dropping in price if you can find them. Comparable to the A15.

As you know you will need more than 1 kite. What size is your Peak? You should compliment that .

My peak is 6. I was thinking to get a 9m as well but i'd rather get something that works on land and water at the same time.
i never heard of Pansh, i'll check it out. Since i am faily new to this i know i will destroy the kite much quicker than exp kiter soi'd rather go cheaper and semi replaceable. thats why i've been looking for used stuff.
thanks.

WHat size pansh be equivalent to a 11 or 12m LEI? Or flysurfer speed?

Pansh Depower kites are junk be carefull with recommendations others give most times they have never even flown the kite they comment about or don't give a true picture of the kite. last pansh kite I bought didn't even power up when I pulled in the bar and that was a few months ago. I never got an answer when I tried to return it. I had to go through a whole process of more than 2 months to get back my money through my cc company as they would not even respond. Pansh fixed bridle kites are ok but stay away from their depower kites no matter how shiny they look or prices seem good or u will regret it. They don't have real kiters or good quality control behind their design team just copycats . I don't mind a good copy of something but pansh copys are a waste of your money. I have been flying power kites for more than 12 years and have flown almost every make and brand so take that for what its worth.

Since it doesn't sound like you're looking for something top of the line, produced in a factory yesterday, I'd recommend whatever second hand flysurfer closed-cell foil you can get your hands on. HQ is another option as some have said, but I don't personally have experience with their water foils. LEI kites work on snow and land just fine though, and are very cost effective compared to foils. The only problem is the whole inflation thing. small punctures are easy depending on where you kite with them. I do like foils for that reason, but also LEI's are slightly better suited for water in general.

powerzone is a good spot to check with to start - and may even have access to some used foils that you could purchase. I feel like there may have been a few posts in the for sale section in this forum over the last couple months that were for some decent condition depower foils?

Quote: Originally posted by windrider1

Pansh Depower kites are junk be carefull with recommendations others give most times they have never even flown the kite they comment about or don't give a true picture of the kite. last pansh kite I bought didn't even power up when I pulled in the bar and that was a few months ago. I never got an answer when I tried to return it. I had to go through a whole process of more than 2 months to get back my money through my cc company as they would not even respond. Pansh fixed bridle kites are ok but stay away from their depower kites no matter how shiny they look or prices seem good or u will regret it. They don't have real kiters or good quality control behind their design team just copycats . I don't mind a good copy of something but pansh copys are a waste of your money. I have been flying power kites for more than 12 years and have flown almost every make and brand so take that for what its worth.

I didn't know the AR15 had been out that long. Or are YOU commenting on a kite that YOU know nothing about here? Aren't you sort of doing the negative version of the same thing? Commenting on a kite you have never tried. Reviews I read from pilots I respect suggest this model is a true step up.

What you say about Pansh is valid. I had similar bad experiences with Pansh after sale. After wasting a few good sessions trying to tune an Aurora I decided my lost fly time was not worth the effort just to save money. Somebody with less money and more time may choose this route?

You get what you pay for in this sport!

P.S. My issues had more to do with tuning the bar to the kite than the kite itself. I did need to replace the cheap pulleys right away though. How are you sure it was the kite that was off and not your line lengths?
Exactly what kite is the AR15 a copy of ?????

I said I purchased a depower kite a few months ago but never said it was an AR15 . It was actually a pansh 12m genesis. I was attracted by by the really nice price and the promise of it being a clone of a flysurfer so I wanted to take chance on it. Long story short when u pulled in the bar the kite did not increase in power, it was so unusual I had a good laugh. This is my second pansh depower as I also owned a blaze many many many years ago and have owned a few fixed bridle ones also . The blaze would collapse when u tried to jump with it. I am not new to this game kid I fly kites for a living I fly every week 365 days a year. I think I know how to tune a kite and also know a good kite when I fly one.

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Quote: Originally posted by windrider1   Pansh Depower kites are junk be carefull with recommendations others give most times they have never even flown the kite they comment about or don't give a true picture of the kite. last pansh kite I bought didn't even power up when I pulled in the bar and that was a few months ago. I never got an answer when I tried to return it. I had to go through a whole process of more than 2 months to get back my money through my cc company as they would not even respond. Pansh fixed bridle kites are ok but stay away from their depower kites no matter how shiny they look or prices seem good or u will regret it. They don't have real kiters or good quality control behind their design team just copycats . I don't mind a good copy of something but pansh copys are a waste of your money. I have been flying power kites for more than 12 years and have flown almost every make and brand so take that for what its worth. I didn't know the AR15 had been out that long. Or are YOU commenting on a kite that YOU know nothing about here? Aren't you sort of doing the negative version of the same thing? Commenting on a kite you have never tried. Reviews I read from pilots I respect suggest this model is a true step up. What you say about Pansh is valid. I had similar bad experiences with Pansh after sale. After wasting a few good sessions trying to tune an Aurora I decided my lost fly time was not worth the effort just to save money. Somebody with less money and more time may choose this route? You get what you pay for in this sport! P.S. My issues had more to do with tuning the bar to the kite than the kite itself. I did need to replace the cheap pulleys right away though. How are you sure it was the kite that was off and not your line lengths? Exactly what kite is the AR15 a copy of ?????

Quote: Originally posted by malashev11

Hi, I am sort of a noob. I am trying to find a kite for me. I currently have several 2008 slingshots but havent used them much because NM sucks for water kiting. I also have a peak2 and i have been using it a lot on land, since thats all we really get. I want to get into water more than land or snow but i want the ability for both. so far everything i read suggests flysurfer speed is my best option for that. any thoughts? does anyone have one i can try? i got some miles on my card and unburned vacation time i can use to get out somewhere. would hate to buy a 1500$ and find out i dont like it.

If you've not yet tried kiteboarding then personally I'd hold off buying anything until you've had some lessons.

Good point RedSky,

I think I gave you more water credit than you may have?

Exactly what LEI's do you have and how much experience with them? What is it about them that you don't like? Learning on water while still crashing foils can be a real bother?

Maybe you should be using the money for a new kite on lessons for water?

I dont need lessons, i need practice. I can get upwind some and ride consistently but my main LEI kite took a beating in the learning process, mostly from land. I am looking to get one quiver for land and water that feels like an LEI and dont want to use LEI's because of maintenance and packing size...
after gettign peak i realized how much less work foils are for land but getting 2-3 kitesx2 for me and the wife is not going to happen.

Yes, this went a bit south. Sorry. I was confused about your experience.

Matrix and Hydra are 2 different animals. Hydra is a Fixed Bridle kite. No active depower. I would guess you tried a Matrix?

Don't rule out Psycho 3 and 4 when shopping. Sounds like you are looking for 12 - 15m ? Avoid anything earlier than Speed 1.5 and Psycho 3.

As far as Pansh and the AR 15 go. Pansh has a bad reputation for putting out kites that aren't RTF ( ready to fly ) . The AR15 is getting some good reviews but if you aren't comfortable tuning a kite and bar then going used Flysurfer at a similar price is the way I would go.

deff not comfortable tunning a kite myself. Yeah it was depower so it was matrixx. I didnt know about psycho either. THanks for pointer. THey all seem to have very similar shape so do they fly similarly? If i try one would i get a decent idea of the rest?

I havent taken the 17 out too mucha dn my 11m saw the most use. think i could go up to 12 or 14 on it tho.
I think i am at the point where i wont be trashing kites too much considering i havent really crashed a kite hard in a quite a few sessions so i'll be looking for something on a newer end to last me longer and i'll be able to get some nicer kites if i can do single quiver instead of doubling up on them for snow and water.

In the generation of Flysurfers you are looking at you will see Speeds 1 - 4 , Psycho 3 and 4, Pulse 1 and 2.

Speed is highest aspect ratio so flies faster / earlier and boosts well. Psycho is a little lower aspect with good float less bottom end. Pulse is low aspect and less lift / speed.

Speed is less forgiving with higher reward. Pulse is more forgiving but can be forced to perform.

here you go my man, decent size, great FS starter unit. if your below #170 it what your are asking for. i have mountain of time on Pulse 2 land and water and great transition into closed cell foil.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=31641

Thanks for the posts guys. It seems i am moving to San Antonio (I think) LEI's it is now, there is no snow anywhere near there