Does anybody know if I can purchase pigtails commercially that I can use for Z-bridling my Born-Kite NASA Star-3s? I want to mimick what John Holgate did here:





His pigtails were about 6-8 inches long with the extra brake pigtail about 1/2 inch longer than the two power pigtails. I know there are likely people reading this just saying "tie them yourself dummy" but if I can buy them done I'd really prefer that. Not saying I'm not open to DIY, so if somebody has a simple design that even I could do I'd appreciate a diagram, photo, etc to walk me through.

Thanks in advance!

Steffen sells them Steve. Or he used to..
I want to say Sean got a set from him??
Can't remember.

I'm sure Big E or Randy can hook you up with some info/tips.

Thanks Jason! I was thinking Steffen was a good place to look too. His Long Stars are Z-Ed. He would know too if I need different size pigtails for different size NS3s.

Thanks!

I mocked up a super crude Z-bridle and rigged it on my 3.2m NS3 just to test flying characteristics of the NS3s in this bridling configuration. I had to land it a couple of times to get the right amount of tension in the brake lines. Once dialed in I have to say it flew very well indeed.

I want to experiment with how may of the bridles I put in the brake grouping. Today I took the bottom two sets of bridle lines as brake lines. It flew well like this but I want to try only the bottom set of bridle lines as brake lines and compare flying characteristics.

I reached out to Steffen to see what he has in terms of pigtails. Fun little project.

Steffan grabs the four bottom lines on the NS2. He has some pics on his website. I'm sure you've seen them. Click on the z bridle in the accessories column.

Now I'm thinking about doing this myself.... thanks for expressing an interest in this Steve!

Hey Steve, I've got Steffen's z bridle. I'll take some pics and measurements for you. I haven't been following closely lately. I've had a case of the flu that made death seem like an acceptable option but I'm feeling better now.

This is Steffen's Z bridle. It comes with a pair of blue, red, and yellow pigtails. Contrary to my picture, you would have 2 blue and 1 yellow on the right side and 2 red and 1 yellow on the left side. (I have the other red and blue pigtails installed on my 2.5 for normal use so I do not have to change the third line attachment point when using my 3 line bar between the sizes since these pigtails are longer).

The red and blue pigtails measure 15" and the yellow pigtail measures 18". The loops are not spliced. He just used an extra long piece of dyneema (i think that's what it is. same material he uses on his normal short pigtails) and makes a large continuous loop with and overhand knot then zig zag stitches all the way up to form a small loop on the ends.

on the ns2 it's the bottom 4 bridles that connect into 2 separate bridle ends that attach to the brake (the red and yellow loop ends in my picture with a loop to loop connection). The Blue pigtail in my picture attach to the remaining "power" bridles.

You then larkshead the power line from your handle around both red and blue knots (in my picture) and larkshead the brake line from the handle to the yellow pigtail knot.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

This is Steffen's Z bridle. It comes with a pair of blue, red, and yellow pigtails. Contrary to my picture, you would have 2 blue and 1 yellow on the right side and 2 red and 1 yellow on the left side. (I have the other red and blue pigtails installed on my 2.5 for normal use so I do not have to change the third line attachment point when using my 3 line bar between the sizes since these pigtails are longer). The red and blue pigtails measure 15" and the yellow pigtail measures 18". The loops are not spliced. He just used an extra long piece of dyneema (i think that's what it is. same material he uses on his normal short pigtails) and makes a large continuous loop with and overhand knot then zig zag stitches all the way up to form a small loop on the ends. on the ns2 it's the bottom 4 bridles that connect into 2 separate bridle ends that attach to the brake (the red and yellow loop ends in my picture with a loop to loop connection). The Blue pigtail in my picture attach to the remaining "power" bridles. You then larkshead the power line from your handle around both red and blue knots (in my picture) and larkshead the brake line from the handle to the yellow pigtail knot.

Sorry you've been sick Sean. Sounds like you felt like 10 lbs of dung in a 5 lb bag. Glad you are on the mend.

Greatly appreciate the picture. These are so simple I'm just going to make them myself. 30" and 36" doubled over and knotted. The stitching is nice but hardly necessary I bet. Home Depo here I come!

Thanks Sean for the pics. Hell I might as well whip up a set too... Was just getting ready to say I haven't seen you in here for a while. Glad your feeling better.

I ordered three sets of these from Steffen today. They were 9.99 EU a set. Off of the website there was going to be a rather large shipping cost but I added a note to him about just sending them in an envelope. He's been good about that in the past and he will likely just adjust the total he sends me for the PayPal transaction.

I did go to Home Depot today but the only thing even close to what I'd want to use for pigtails was some quarter inch paracord. This is not what I want to use for my permanent set up. It is exactly what I used to mock up a bridle yesterday just to see if the general concept would work (which it did). Not the sort of stuff I want to use permanently. To thick, too weak, too heavy, and just all in all not the right stuff.

I can get thin dyneema line at a marine supply store, but it is a 45 minute drive each way totally out of my way. That's not going to happen. I'm in no particular rush to get this worked out anyway, so Steffen's slow boat express suits me fine this go around.

What folks will see is that I'm selling my larger NS3s. I am planning on keeping my 1.5, 2.5, and 3.2m NS3s and it is those that I will Z-Bridle. I'm sure not all the others will sell so I'll see what I do with the rest. As my various riding styles (buggy, skis, and skates) have evolved I've just come to like the security of DP more and more. For skiing my re-ride equipped Ozones are working really well. For three days last week on Lake Ivanpah I found myself most comfortable with my Peaks. I loved their ability to DP a lot and the little ball slid down let me have just about as care free rolling as with the Stars.

Ok, what did I miss Steve? I'm not following you. First you decided to wait 4 -6 weeks to save a 45 minute drive when you could have easily ordered from west marine and had the needed supplies in a couple days. :evil: Strictly giving you a hard time on that one because that's the same type of stuff I catch myself doing. :P

Second. What's the plan for the remaining stars? by the way, I like my 2.5 and 4m stars the best so I get it but my reasons are more for longboard. Also, where did the z bridle bug come from? Just curious and not knocking z bridle at all. I like all ways to fly them.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Ok, what did I miss Steve? I'm not following you. First you decided to wait 4 -6 weeks to save a 45 minute drive when you could have easily ordered from west marine and had the needed supplies in a couple days. :evil: Strictly giving you a hard time on that one because that's the same type of stuff I catch myself doing. :P Second. What's the plan for the remaining stars? by the way, I like my 2.5 and 4m stars the best so I get it but my reasons are more for longboard. Also, where did the z bridle bug come from? Just curious and not knocking z bridle at all. I like all ways to fly them.

You didn't miss anything. I never said it had a clear logic. We are in the "tween" season here (between Winter and Summer) and everything is soggy and drying out as the snow melts. So I don't see myself doing much flying in the near future. With no rush on it makes more sense to have OEM bridles from Steffen himself rather than the stuff I jury rig up.

Yes, recent thinking, evolved from my three days at IBX. This was the first time I had ever been around multiple (50+) riders and I gained a lot of perspective. Seeing everybody jamming with handles made me really miss this aspect of kite flying as my quiver had completely evolved into harness flying off of a bar. Z-bridling existing kites just seemed to make the most sense. This is coupled with my increased love of my Peak-2s for buggying and kite skating. For skating I absolutely need DP capabilities to keep under control, and for buggying sliding the little ball down to hold the bar in place makes a Peak-2 fly as rock steady and care free as a NS3 off the bar, but with the really nice ability to scrub power by sheeting out. On the playa of Ivanpah this made a big difference last week for peace of mind. I was able to put a comparatively big kite up for haul-arse power on the straight runs but easily scrub it for lazy slow turns as I came about. Really loved doing that!

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

Thanks Sean for the pics. Hell I might as well whip up a set too... Was just getting ready to say I haven't seen you in here for a while. Glad your feeling better.

Thanks. I was only sick thrusday-saturday but been busy with work as well which is a good thing. Several minor skateboarding injuries have kept me from kiting lately too. The concrete is an unforgiving mistress.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre   Ok, what did I miss Steve? I'm not following you. First you decided to wait 4 -6 weeks to save a 45 minute drive when you could have easily ordered from west marine and had the needed supplies in a couple days. :evil: Strictly giving you a hard time on that one because that's the same type of stuff I catch myself doing. :P Second. What's the plan for the remaining stars? by the way, I like my 2.5 and 4m stars the best so I get it but my reasons are more for longboard. Also, where did the z bridle bug come from? Just curious and not knocking z bridle at all. I like all ways to fly them. You didn't miss anything. I never said it had a clear logic. We are in the "tween" season here (between Winter and Summer) and everything is soggy and drying out as the snow melts. So I don't see myself doing much flying in the near future. With no rush on it makes more sense to have OEM bridles from Steffen himself rather than the stuff I jury rig up. Yes, recent thinking, evolved from my three days at IBX. This was the first time I had ever been around multiple (50+) riders and I gained a lot of perspective. Seeing everybody jamming with handles made me really miss this aspect of kite flying as my quiver had completely evolved into harness flying off of a bar. Z-bridling existing kites just seemed to make the most sense. This is coupled with my increased love of my Peak-2s for buggying and kite skating. For skating I absolutely need DP capabilities to keep under control, and for buggying sliding the little ball down to hold the bar in place makes a Peak-2 fly as rock steady and care free as a NS3 off the bar, but with the really nice ability to scrub power by sheeting out. On the playa of Ivanpah this made a big difference last week for peace of mind. I was able to put a comparatively big kite up for haul-arse power on the straight runs but easily scrub it for lazy slow turns as I came about. Really loved doing that!

Keep in mind Steve, I ordered mine from Steffen too so it's the pot calling the kettle :P

I've used the ns2's with z and without z on 4 line. Both are fun and add variety to flying them.

Don't forget to try out the peaks on handles. those are fun too

another option for you Windstruck is the straight choke that I use. A 30 -40 cm line larks-headed to the power line and a "D" ring on the other end around the brake lines.

Quote: Originally posted by Cerebite

another option for you Windstruck is the straight choke that I use. A 30 -40 cm line larks-headed to the power line and a "D" ring on the other end around the brake lines.

This sounds interesting. I'm not smart enough to follow though. Do you have a picture?

Quote: Originally posted by Cerebite

another option for you Windstruck is the straight choke that I use. A 30 -40 cm line larks-headed to the power line and a "D" ring on the other end around the brake lines.

John - coming on strong again on PKF! You are a welcome return to the fold. It's like IBX recharged your PKF batteries.

I really liked this design when you showed it to me on the playa last week. I could well end up with my big NS3s if nobody buys them and I was thinking about trying this choke hold on them. I was planning to z-bridle my 1.5, 2.5, and 3.2m NS3s but could experiment both ways and see which I liked better or perhaps one is better for the small versus large kites or visa versa. Will be interesting to figure this out.

When you post your picture make sure you have your accending bridling knot chains in place. That will start a whole new round of questions. :karate:

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Originally posted by Cerebite   another option for you Windstruck is the straight choke that I use. A 30 -40 cm line larks-headed to the power line and a "D" ring on the other end around the brake lines. This sounds interesting. I'm not smart enough to follow though. Do you have a picture?

All of my equipment is in the garage dropping dust [just got back from IBX] but I will try for a better description.

This is not a load bearing line so there is no need to use any particular test strength or anything. I have made them from both small [2 -3 mm] "climbing" line and from paracord. With the paracord I took the interior out and just used the sleeve. [I know this is turning into a line making discussion but what the hey ] I like to allocate 20 cm to an eye and knot, 10 cm of that going into the eye itself which gives a good size for forming up larksheads and contributes about 5 cm [half of the length of the loop] to your length when in use.
So to make a 30 cm choke your raw line length would be as follows: 20cm +20cm +20cm =60cm
after knotting:
5cm +20cm +5cm = 30cm
For the sliding end of the choke I like to use 1" plastic "D" rings from your favorite camping supply/ surplus store.

"
When you post your picture make sure you have your accending bridling knot chains in place. That will start a whole new round of questions. :karate:"

that is just simple daisy chaining of the bridles to keep them from twisting and tangling. Gather the lines that you want to daisy chain; twist a loop into the lines with the free end [the stuff that you will be chaining up] on top; pull the free end down and up through the loop; repeat until you run out of free end/ reach your pigtail/ reach your line end loop; put the tail ends through your last loop to "hold" the knot and then larks head your tails to one of the bridal attachment points to keep them from tangling. [i know this post is C@#$^ without pictures, maybe later when I get to the garage].