After taking a decade long break from power kiting I am back at it. :thumb:
I got a big buzz for my 2 kids and a 2.4m sting for myself.

I'm now looking for 2 new kites to add to the quiver.

First one should be a 4 line foil between 3 and 4m and wilder than the sting I have.
Ideally it will allow me to make small jumps on land with a softish landing if possible.
I used to have a blade iii 3.3 but as far as I can remember that was a beast even when I was younger and fitter.
Looking at the rage and blade iv.

The second kite should be something that will be good for body surfing with a harness and water relaunchable.
The pl hydra perhaps?

I don't mind getting older sh models on fleabay.

Any advice is very welcome. Cheers !

Welcome! I would be inclined to get something in the 5-8 meter size and jumping in lighter wind than what it would take to use a smaller foil if jumping is the goal.

When you talk about using this kite for body dragging will you be in deep water or shallows? If it is deep water an open cell foil is out.

How much will you use it on land?

It's hard to get a kite that is good for both.

I think that a depower kite would best suit your combined wishes? You will fly a larger sail in the same wind with depower. This will make static jumping slightly easier ( not that I suggest static jumping is EVER safe! ) . Body dragging with depower on a bar is definitely better.

You kind of rule out open cell foils going on water. Unless you plan to pack up a sea anchor and walk to shore each time you crash. Closed cell options are available. Flysurfer , HQ, Ozone, Pansh and some others make closed cell foils. Peter Lynn Arcs are also an option. Newer arcs will re-launch off water better than old ones. Their auto zenith quality reduces crashes. Another option is LEI kites but inflatables don't stand up to crashing on land well.

I would suggest you look at Flysurfer Pulse, Psycho III or newer. HQ Neo or Matrix ( no personal experience ) Peter Lynn Synergy or newer.

Different things for different people...no one is 100% correct
We all reflect on our experiences and give our opinions
But you do need larger than a 3/4 for safe jumping unless your under 100#
I like the hydra lots...flysurfer viron too...either makes sence for part of what your looking for
Welcome to kite town...always ask questions

I can't really speak about your water kite interest - as I have no experience with kite use on water - but I can comment on your land kite interest. I have the Sting 3.3 kite and the Rage kites in sizes 1.8, 2.5, 3.5, & 4.7.

The Rage kites are a bit higher aspect ratio (narrower) compared to the Sting, and they generate a noticeably more amount of pull in equal winds. I hardly ever use my Sting, and when it does come out, it's to introduce somebody else to Power Kiting on a day when the winds would be too much for a first timer for even the smallest Rage.

As far as jumping goes, I'm not sure a fixed bridle kite is the best for this. Although they pull like the dickens in moderate to high winds, as soon as you relieve the line resistance (jump), they lose their shape and then all or most of their pulling power. That means they drop you all of a sudden, and being somewhat 'caught up' in the moment, most folks are not ready for this. and they end up getting hurt.

This is not to say that some folks have not mastered 'jumping' with a fixed bridle kite - and many have - but what I see as a common theme for those who have - on Youtube mostly - is keeping the lines taut at all times - maintaining resistance against the kite right at that magic moment. Mostly, this means lifting yourself upward slightly against the handles as the kite zips upward through the power zone and allowing yourself to be 'slinged' sideways in a lateral arc. Rather than jumping really, you are being slung... Another successful "jumper' that I saw was a guy with the Rage 3.5 floating off of maybe 10-15 foot beach dunes, but again, by doing so, he never caused the line resistance to cease, and the kite maintained its shape and lift.

Thanks for all the advice folks
I will look into all the models mentioned...

The kite used for body dragging will prob only be used in the sea.
I will most likely use it deep water over 100 yards away from beach.
I have a 15 year old lei 6m Takoon sat in the garage that I only flew a 1/2 dozen times. Never got to kitesurf due to work ;(
Perhaps it would be suitable unless it's decomposed by now?
I can fly my sting 2.4 in high winds forever without dropping it and used to be able to do the same with my blade iii 3.3.
I've flown kites for many years and have the control aspect down pretty well but from what I remember the blade could surprise me with sudden power much easier than the smaller sting.
I also remember meeting a bloke in Littlehampton who kitesurfed with a large blade, but he was the exception.


As far as the bigger kite for jumping goes, what would be the max wind speed that I could fly in safely with a 5 to 6m size?
I weigh 190lbs.
Do I look for a high aspect ratio kite? I see there's some old blade IV's on sale in 4.9m size.
Have a weak spot for flexifoil as I've had so many of their kites.

BTW my mates wants to buy my sting 2.4 so I thing I'll replace it with a rage 2.5 for a more exciting time on windy days.

If you have experience with these kites, and at your stated weight, I'd go with the Rage 3.5. I'm just a bit heavier than you, and it's my most used kite. It will gladly sling you. Anything over 20 mph and it's borderline dangerous for static flying though. Regardless, even if getting back into it, be very careful. These Power Kites can have a rather pric.kly disposition.

for fixed bridle foils and jumping, I would think blades still reign supreme. Twisters are good as well. I've owned blade III 6.6 and 8.5 (that one briefly) I'm not much of a jumper but at your weight, I would guess you could start jumping in 10 knots+ with the 6.6 and probably 8+ knots with the 8.5. Again, this is where you can start to jump, your ability would judge the upper range. 4.9 blade I'm sure would be a blast and have a larger all around wind range to be able to fly more frequently. Especially if your only other kite is a 2.5, I'd go with the 4.9 as the next kite.

What's the deal with blades, are they still being manufactured?
They're not on Flexifoils site. I don't know if the rage line replaced the blades...

Quote: Originally posted by vjanda

What's the deal with blades, are they still being manufactured? They're not on Flexifoils site. I don't know if the rage line replaced the blades...

The Rage was sold at the same time as the Blade. They were siblings.... the Rage was never intended to replace the Blade. Two totally different performance profiles and goals.

In terms of performance, for Flexifoil fixed bridle foils it went

Buzz/Big Buzz
Sting/Control
Rage
Blade

Given how sparse both the water and land lineup is on the Flexifoil site is, you will probably see new models introduced in the next 6-?? months.

ATB,
Sam

The only person I know of who uses an open cell foil on water is an expert pilot. He takes along a special mesh bag to gather the kite ( read sea anchor ) and bring it in ON HIS BOARD. Crashing an open cell out on the sea combined with being hooked in to handles while learning or body surf is just wrong. If you want to body surf in the sea you want a sea worthy water re-launchable kite. An open cell kite only meets 1/2 your needs IMHO.

A closed cell 3 line FB trainer won't satisfy your desire to jump. It will only be good for down winders body dragging unless wind and your technique are strong.

Your old LEI won't be much good to you. LEI has developed leaps and bounds.

With your past experience I am sure you understand that no single kite will do it all.

Given your stated purpose, you might want to consider a Hydra or even a HQ Neo.. Put jumping out of your mind for the time being..
There's also a Matrixx II in the for sale section if you really want something that meets your intended purpose all around..

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

With your past experience I am sure you understand that no single kite will do it all.

Some of you guys might have missed it, but he said he was looking for 2 new kites. a 4 line foil for with some zing for jumping AND a water relaunchable kite.

I have several closed cell kites as well as SLE's the Neo is a solid work horse. But I would suggest getting the most up to date version. I believe the last version was 3. I have version 1 in an 8m water relaunch can be a pain. But I use it on land and have done some body dragging with it at the lake. I also have several PL Arc's. The older venoms...well let's just say. Don't get it wet. Haha. There old enough that they soak up the water. I tried waterproofing spray. Still...don't get it wet. Unless you find one that's still crispy. I wouldn't take these out on the water. I also have a 2014 PL Phantom. Now that thing. You could use it as a floating lounge chair all day long and it"ll still relaunch without trouble. I use it as a buggy engine mostly. But I was out camping at a lake and decided to get them all wet just to have fun and see if they perform as advertised. The SLE's work as intended. My favorite is the Best Bularoo. The Bularoo was marketed as a land and water kite. I still would not want to crash that thing into the ground to many times. The great thing about the SLE's in my opinion is that there cheap. You can get them almost anywhere for less then half the cost of a comparable foil. Thrash it, Bash it, tape it, patch it, and thrash it and bash it some more. When it gets to the point that you're just flying a giant ball of tape. Get another. Rinse and repeat! Some on here might cast me into the pit of death for such blasphemy. But...it's true. I picked up my 7m Bullaro. Virtually brand new for $50. I could buy 20 of these things for the price I paid for my Phantom. As for jumping. I know nothing. I'm 300 lbs. it's takes a lot of wind or a massive kite to get me off the ground haha. Just some food for thought.

Seeing as I am in the UK and Flexifoil kites in vgc show up quite often on ebay I've decided to get a Flexi for static flying and jumping.
Only question is do I get a Rage, Blade IV or V?
I am in no rush and can wait for the right one to show up.

bump

Quote: Originally posted by vjanda

bump

If your seeking an answer to your rage versus blade question, the rage has a 3.5 ar and the blade iv has a 5 ar

So if you want the maximum amount of pop, go with blade.

If you want a good mid ar that would be more forgiving, than go with rage.

I referenced a pkf member's site for the aspect ratio and general information:

http://www.coastalwindsports.com/ChoosingAKite.html

Can't speak for your water adventures, but either my 5m Beamer or 5.3 Viper wouldn't exactly suck to have in your quiver.


Great Shape, Great Pricing.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30708

Me and my mate now decided to have a go buggying or mountain boarding Which is easier to get into?

I thing we'll be getting a bladeV 4.9 or 6m for starters.
I read that the BV is not as vicious as previous versions and more lofty too.

What is the ideal line length for buggy/board use? I see lines are available in different lengths.

Thx!

You can ride a buggy on much rougher ground than a board so Buggy will allow you more locations.

Most buggies are adjustable in size.

Standard lines are 20 - 23 m . I good set up is 20m with 7m extensions for low wind. Longer lines give you a bigger wind window and will get you up to more wind. Both are good for low wind flying.

Shorter lines make your wind window smaller and so the kite gets to the edge of the power zone quicker. Good for higher winds.

imo...4.9 or 6 blade isnt really the kite to be learning to bug or board
much will depend on the surface and wind conditions...but both those will have pretty narrow comfort ranges to be getting started out
i have the 4.9 B3..bugged w/ it last night in 8-12 clean ocean onshore wind and have to fly the snot out of it upwind
i think better learning conditions are 15/20 with a 3m...i dont know what conditions you see most often but just putting it out there

I no longer live in the UK.
Average winds localy are from 10 to 20mph.
They tend to be gusty but I am looking for better locations.
I don't know if a rage would be a better kite than the new blade and if so in what size.
I figure I will get at least 3 sizes once I put the dosh together.
Thanks again:D

so far i havent really cared what brand or model kite im flying...as long as i have something that matches the wind speed im good to go
that said im a big fan of my 3.3 PKD, very broad range and tuff as nails

you need a 3, you want a 5 then go from there

4.9m Blade has the nick name " widow Maker " . WRONG kite for 15 - 20mph when you throw in gusty. Choose your kite style and size around the gusts NOT the average winds.

It will snatch you up quicker than you can blink with an unlucky gust. Then it will slam you into the ground on your way down. It's a high lift, advanced freestyle kite. When it goes wrong with that kite it can really go bad!