I'm familiar with bikes, cars, and motorcycles in terms of brand loyalty and mystique surrounding brand names.

I'm wondering how this shakes out with kites. Generalizations are okay here, I'd like to get some unbiased and maybe biased opinions.

My only experience with foil kites is the Prism brand, however as I'm browsing the forums here I don't see much talk about them, and some/most of that talk is negative.

Looking forward to your feedback.

Nothing wrong with prism foils but they aren't talked about much because they have limited choices in power kites. There are lots of great brands. What specifically are you looking for?

As far as Power Kites go, Ozone, HQ, Peter Lynn, PKD, Flexifoil, Zebra, Libre & Born Kite all seem to make top quality kites with very few complaints aimed at them. I think Sky Dog also gets a good rap, but I've never handled one. You can add F-one and Flysurfer into the top quality Depower kite list and there's probably quite a few I haven't thought of or never used. There's a few cheap chinese knock-offs that are very ordinary. Pansh's quality is getting better and better all the time but from what I hear, their customer service is almost non existent.

Konrad covered some of the more obscure kite manufacturers in the thread:

Kite companies that you may not know ......

However, some of them are hard to source in the US because there are no official distributors/dealers for them.

John has listed most of the kites that have a strong user base in the US (even though he is in Australia ).

ATB,
Sam

Haven't been loyal yet...tend to buy anything I don't already have

I'm personally far more loyal to people than I am to brands. In this case, Chris Krug from Hardwater has earned my business many times over. As for brands, I do like to stay within a brand and even more specifically a series so that I have consistency across kites for predictable and nicely thought out safety systems. Hands down my favorite safety system is Ozone's "re-ride" system found on their latest generation Access, Frenzy, and Summit kites. This system runs the 5th line INTO the kite and draws the kite up a bit like an accordion when deployed. Nice for relaunching after popping the safety and as a convenient means to land a kite solo and for making pack up a breeze.

Another advantage IMHO of a quiver (such as my quiver of Flysurfer Peak2s) is consistency of flying characteristics across a wide spectrum of wind conditions. I just seem to value that consistency above the novelty and fun one can get from sampling the menu more broadly.

Kites I still want to try:

Genetrix hydra 9m

urban kites

ikon micro

pkd buster pro

peak 2 4,12

pl reactor II

pl voltage

flexi bIII 2m (for longboard)

gomberg ghost

current favorite brands and kites I fly:

Flysurfer p1

born-kite ns2's

pl viper s

My personal all around favorite brand currently would be flysurfer for making everything from high end high performance race kites to the peak which makes dp kites affordable and accessible for a variety of conditions and flying styles.

Prism makes good kites but like somone said they have a very limited power kite range. I used to own a prism stunt kite and it was a great kite. The top brands for the serious kiter are Flysurfer, Ozone and Hq kites in my opinion. They specialize in depower kites for both land and water and as far as quality they all make top quality products. If you are looking for a fixed bridal kite then there are a lot more good brands to choose frm which i think were already listed above. Performance wise with depower kites Flysurfer is at the top of the list followed by Ozone and the HQ kites. SO it just depends on your riding style to choose a brand u will purchase. I wont recommend pansh to anyone , may be their fixed bridal kites are ok but there depower kites are junk. 1 out of 2 will not fly because of various manufacturer defects. One of my first kites was the HQ beamer series which is still around to this day.

Thanks for the feedback on the various brands.

I'm a huge value guy. Some call it cheap, but I compare capability and features to price tag and make many decisions and find trade offs based on that.

What would be considered value brands? What kites put premiums on their name?

I'm having problems finding this myself because you find so many kites in the same size range with differing prices, but when researching more I find that they are actually built for different purposes. I'm not shopping anything specific, but wanting to know where my sweets pot will be and where the value is in kiting.

thanks again.

HQ kites make very good kites for a decent price. Entry level kites would be the -Beamer , Rush and Hydra series . Depower would be the Apex series.

I agree with John H. He only hit on 1/4 the kites that are on the market and are good kites to fly. Here is the statement that will piss off those that are brand snobs, ALL KITES ARE BASICALLY THE SAME WITH THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THE PERSON FLYING THEM.
I have talked to the owners of a half dozen kite companies and they will all say theirs are the best. Now talk to the manufacturers of those kites and get the real answer.
Granted the fixed bridles, de-power, and NPW's are the real difference in design and performance. A good gauge in race kites is the full range of sizes for that particular quiver. The fewer sizes in that kite indicates the small window of use, mostly for the beginner.

Your query is to vague and focused on the wrong topic of which brand. I would suggest figuring out what your goals are first. Fun static flying only? Land based traction buggy or board? Water? Where will you be flying inland or coastal.

After you have an idea of that, you can begin to narrow a style of kite and then finally shop brands that will accommodate.

Your actually not unique. I don't think anyone looks to spend anymore than they have to. Personally I buy used high quality versus new inexpensive. Pretty much my attitude on everything.

I was intentionally vague. I'm not looking to buy a kite. I'm perfectly happy with the ones I have now.

I was looking to Guage the publics conception of brand names and bias'.

I'm not trying to shop and make decisions at this point, would just like to become more educated so I can talk to other kiters better and understand where they are coming from.

The whole point of my topic IS to focus on brand.

That's fine and dandy but almost everyone's brand prejudice is based on what kite discipline and sometimes geographic region they are from.

For example, most kitesurfers probably haven't even heard of half the brands we have been talking about here and conversely we haven't even scratched the surface on brands they are very familiar with.

So discipline and style of riding within the discipline is by far the biggest influences on brand selection than the brand itself.

Are you only curious about brand preference to comparable kites to Prism? The Tensor is their only power kite I believe. If that's the case you would be able to narrow brand preference opinions to 4 line fixed bridle.

My only words of warning are to avoid Pansh kites until you completely understand how to tune a kite. I am a bit penny wise myself and have been sucked in to Pansh product repeatedly. Generally a used kite from a reputable owner will fly RTF ( ready to fly ) when a new Pansh will need tweeking. Re-sale of Pansh is difficult.

Without a doubt the best bang for buck is to buy a quality / popular used kite. Not too old but not too new. Then if and when you want to change things up resale will be easy and at a minimal loss. Accepting quality repairs that do not effect the flight characteristics of the kite can also save a buck. Kites are a LOT like cars that way. Within the top manufacturers you will get a quality product. Some like Red Chevy's . I like gray Chryslers ( why be normal ) . Some brands have luxury models ( Ozone Chrono, Flysurfer etc. ) but you don't want to learn on a used Ferrari !

Since ATB is your goal and you have some basics down you should really consider looking at depower kites. Most folks who ride stand up tend to end up with depower. The depower + taking the power through the harness to your core are a BIG advantage IMHO. Just my HO.

The WORST thing you can do is impulse buy. You are making a very good choice in running your choices through this forum. We may not all give you the same advice but we will all have your best interests in mind!

On the land boards, same things apply. Quality used is the way to go but check on shipping cost! Look for MBS, Trampa, Keho and a few other brands. Ground industries were good boards but spare parts are hard to find now they are out of business.

ssayre I get a little more of what you were saying now. More used to other sports where there are 3-5 frontrunners and others are considered knock offs
Bikes - Specialized, Trek, Fuji, Ghost, etc
Motorcycles - Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, Harley, Honda
Cars - Chevy, Ford, GMC, Etc.

Seems that kites have the same basics, but more categories, then you can narrow it down. Few brands for surfing, few brands for stunt, couple for boarding/buggy etc.

I'm learning that through this discussion, so glad I asked.


Bladerunner- Excellent info all around, appreciate your insight.

If you are concerned about value, you can't go wrong looking at the for sale section here. No matter what brand, you will be getting 1/3-1/2 off a good kite in good shape

Best value kites......hmmmm.... I think the Zebra Z1 is the best value foil I've seen. Flies great, bomb proof construction and in Australia, they were available for comparatively little $$. The Zebra buggy (offshoot of Libre I think??) is also the best bang for buck buggy imho too. Apart from that, I'd say HQ kites generally give you a lot of kite for the money. The Born-Kite Nasa Star 3 is also relatively inexpensive and makes a quality and versatile buggy engine. Pansh can be excellent value for money too - BUT, as has been stated above, quality control is not terribly consistent and you may get a kite that is not adjusted properly.

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

Here is the statement that will piss off those that are brand snobs, ALL KITES ARE BASICALLY THE SAME WITH THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THE PERSON FLYING THEM.

The longer I'm in this sport the more I believe this statement. I've heard Chris Krug(Feyd) say this many times, "The kiter makes the kite, the kite doesn't make the kiter". As you can see from my Sig I'm not loyal to any one brand. After years of flying many makes and models, I've realized that there are very few "bad" brands out there. I don't have the skill level to appreciate a Flysurfer over a HQ Matrix. Price point alot of times comes down to differences in craftsmanship. They all do one thing for me, that is to move me from point A to point B with a large grin on my face:D

Quote: Originally posted by DialedN_07

I'm not shopping anything specific, but wanting to know where my sweets pot will be and where the value is in kiting.

Value in kiting? There isn't any unless you've got a kite in your hands and you're using it. Otherwise, all you have is a bunch of ripstop and string sitting in the garage. It's like value in golf clubs - just a bunch of expensive sticks unless you're on the course.

Other than the Prism, what kites do you have now? If you're looking for opinions to use as a basis for discussion, why not fly some of the other offerings that are out there? (I'm not suggesting that you should be investing a small fortune for the sake of conversation; I'm sure that many on this forum would be willing to hand you a kite or two to try.)

My opinion for me? Peter Lynn; For my typical conditions I like the quality/price point that their Core (now discontinued) and Lynx offer me, and I have a local distributor that I can rely on for help and advice. (Then, again, I've also bought kites from WA, CA, NV, TX, and MI) And, as others have mentioned, I appreciate the consistency of having a quiver with a good wind range. (Having said all that, my next purchase will probably be a Pansh.)

Fly often; fly safe.

I started with the standard dual line deltas (no idea what brand) that you can buy at Wings or any run of the mill beach shop. I have three of them because I would inevitably forget it when I went to the beach and they are $30-45 each.

I recently purchased the Prism Synapse 170 which is incredibly fun. The pull and speed of that thing hooked me immediately along with the wrist straps which I loved.

After the first day I was on the hunt for a kite that would produce enough pull to get me down the beach by dragging, boarding or whatever. Found a steal on the Prism Tensor 3.1.
Honestly I bought the Prism because I love the Synapse so much and I had not had this discussion yet. Admittedly I haven't flown the 3.1 yet, so I'll pass judgement when I do get a chance.

Like many have said there is not a large range with Prism, and once I decide what I like (speed of 170 or pull of 3.1) I'll decide where to go next. Ex. I fall in love with boarding but don't get enough grunt from the 3.1.

That's why I'm not shopping yet. I want to get MUCH more flight time with these two to decide if I'm a stunter, traction/boarder or what I enjoy most.

I just know I love harnessing the wind any way that I can!!

You are going to really enjoy the 3.1 Prism. It is designed to do almost everything you are after. Just the right size.

It will fly in very light winds once you learn to milk all the power you can out of it. When the winds pick up it will have all the power you are hoping for. Plenty of power to scud you down the beach in moderately strong winds. Small enough that once you are it's master it will serve as you high wind kite for riding. The perfect size for introducing the sport to others safely yet with a true power kite.

You definitely want to confirm that your beach is hard packed enough to ride with ATB. The sand has to be pretty hard and is typically only found when the tide is out. As mentioned, if a bike tire will sink in at all it's probably too soft. Kite buggies open up a lot more locations. They work well on those semi-hard beaches and in rough fields with grass too long for a board.

Here is a small catch that makes your well thought out plan a very good choice. Or at least something to consider. The most popular use for Fixed Bridle kites is for buggies. Depower is preferred by stand up riders. BOTH can be used for both but it's nice to build your quiver around your favorite ride. ( so I use depower in the buggy a lot ) .

Your stunt experience has taught you how to FLY a kite. What you want to do with the Prism is learn to CONTROL the kite! Concentrate on anticipating what to do next and getting the timing down. Work on being able to fly the kite " blind " / by feel. You want to be able to keep the kite off to the side and in control while you are looking at something else completely or talking with folks. When you can do that, concentrating on the board or buggy will be a whole lot easier.

I don't think all kites can be described as being the same. that is a highly inaccurate statement. while I agree that it depends on the kiter to bring out the best in a kite . some kites are highly technical machines compared to others. I think the only way to see this is when you are close to the top of the kites windrange and that's when u begin to see the kites true nature good or bad. Also if your chosen kite sport requires a lot of power to move and u are not afraid to ride hard that's when you really begin to appreciate a good kite.

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

I agree with John H. He only hit on 1/4 the kites that are on the market and are good kites to fly. Here is the statement that will piss off those that are brand snobs, ALL KITES ARE BASICALLY THE SAME WITH THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THE PERSON FLYING THEM. I have talked to the owners of a half dozen kite companies and they will all say theirs are the best. Now talk to the manufacturers of those kites and get the real answer. Granted the fixed bridles, de-power, and NPW's are the real difference in design and performance. A good gauge in race kites is the full range of sizes for that particular quiver. The fewer sizes in that kite indicates the small window of use, mostly for the beginner.

Quote: Originally posted by windrider1

I don't think all kites can be described as being the same. that is a highly inaccurate statement. while I agree that it depends on the kiter to bring out the best in a kite . some kites are highly technical machines compared to others. I think the only way to see this is when you are close to the top of the kites windrange and that's when u begin to see the kites true nature good or bad. Also if your chosen kite sport requires a lot of power to move and u are not afraid to ride hard that's when you really begin to appreciate a good kite. Quote: Originally posted by bigkid   I agree with John H. He only hit on 1/4 the kites that are on the market and are good kites to fly. Here is the statement that will piss off those that are brand snobs, ALL KITES ARE BASICALLY THE SAME WITH THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THE PERSON FLYING THEM. I have talked to the owners of a half dozen kite companies and they will all say theirs are the best. Now talk to the manufacturers of those kites and get the real answer. Granted the fixed bridles, de-power, and NPW's are the real difference in design and performance. A good gauge in race kites is the full range of sizes for that particular quiver. The fewer sizes in that kite indicates the small window of use, mostly for the beginner.

Like I suggested, kites are a lot like cars.
I think what Jeff and John are saying is that similar models of kites from the major manufacturers will serve you similar qualities.
Major auto manufacturers have everything from intro models to highly technical beasts. Some specialize in the high end and you get to pay for it. They will gladly sell you one even if you are a new driver and have no place to legally take advantage of the power.

Like the Pilot makes the kite a driver can take a mini and do things that will blow your mind.

What I learned was that changing kites to improve my pilot skills wasn't near as effective as getting completely in tune with the kites I have in hand.

Quote: Originally posted by DialedN_07

I started with the standard dual line deltas (no idea what brand) that you can buy at Wings or any run of the mill beach shop. I have three of them because I would inevitably forget it when I went to the beach and they are $30-45 each. I recently purchased the Prism Synapse 170 which is incredibly fun. The pull and speed of that thing hooked me immediately along with the wrist straps which I loved. After the first day I was on the hunt for a kite that would produce enough pull to get me down the beach by dragging, boarding or whatever. Found a steal on the Prism Tensor 3.1. Honestly I bought the Prism because I love the Synapse so much and I had not had this discussion yet. Admittedly I haven't flown the 3.1 yet, so I'll pass judgement when I do get a chance. Like many have said there is not a large range with Prism, and once I decide what I like (speed of 170 or pull of 3.1) I'll decide where to go next. Ex. I fall in love with boarding but don't get enough grunt from the 3.1. That's why I'm not shopping yet. I want to get MUCH more flight time with these two to decide if I'm a stunter, traction/boarder or what I enjoy most. I just know I love harnessing the wind any way that I can!!

Get with me to fly sometime.. You can fly/try anything in my bag.. I tend to be HQ centric but I also have several other brands.. I am loyal though to quad handles over strapped in or depower. My choice..

riffclown- That sounds like it would be worth the trip. I can say I'm interested in taking you up on that!

Look forward to making that happen

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

ALL KITES ARE BASICALLY THE SAME WITH THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THE PERSON FLYING THEM

Hmmm... Not quite.

I'll agree that the PL Hornet, the HQ Beamer and any other similarly targeted kites are indeed 'basically the same' in terms of what they can do and the performance they offer.
And yes, some even come from the same factory and thus, are similarly built.

However!
The difference lies in the materials used; the fabric and bridle lines and the flying lines, and that's a difference not to be underestimated.
PL Hornet; 40D Mirai top and bottom skin, 70D internal ribs, pre-stretched Dyneema bridles.
Stated on the website.

HQ Beamer; umm, they do not state the materials used on their website...
Same goes for the other brands.

All this said, I do enjoy flying the Beamer over the Hornet as the Beamer offers a bit more challenge, but that's due to the shape/AR of the kite rather than the materials, Beamer does need more wind though, heavier fabric..

Don't take it from me though! Im Biased! (I kinda have to seeing my employment :o )
Compare materials for yourself if you have the chance, you might be surprised.

And yes, the flyer makes the kite for sure.

Enjoy what you fly, and fly safe!