Can't agree more with bladerunner. Buggy opens up so many more locations and videos don't do it justice. Way more fun than what you may think if you've never tried it.

Quote: Originally posted by DialedN_07

What say ye? Soliver, not one of the kites you mentioned above...?

Oh Cripes!... yes HQ makes great stuff as well!!! That's usually one of the names on the list that I neglected. For starter FB kites, you just about can't beat a good ole HQ Beamer!!!

In the world of Depow there are a few more players. HQ Apex (any generation) is supposed to be a great starter and one of the most affordable depower foils.

I would also recommend looking into a 6m Flysurfer Peak. The 6m Peak 1 is a great depower kite that is typically VERY affordable used and has a much wider wind range than your typical depower foil (because it's a single skin). I just recently was given one by a very generous benefactor and LOVE the thing... I've been flying FB kites for 5 years and now am super excited about all of the possibilities for me with my new to me 6m P1. P2's are supposed to be awesome too!

And one more thing about "going fast"... here's the great thing about buggying and going fast... you don't have to be doing that much speed to hit that "going fast" nerve. Moving at 25 mph may seem like nothing in your car, but when your butt is only 4 inches off the ground it feels like warp 10!... my current top speed is 28 mph and it felt like my pants were almost on fire.

You guys and your buggies!
I get the idea and love the concept.....BUT....buying a friggin buggy is just about if not more expensive than buying a decent kite :o

I'm obviously ignorant on the subject, but can someone tell me why (WHAT SEEMS TO BE) a metal frame welded to two tires and a caster wheel in front costs so much cash?
I mean I can't find buggies for less than $700-$875 online.

NO WAY the wife will let that fly (<<<see what I did there???)

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

you will put up the 3m when you wont fly the 4...i know it seams stupid, but nobody need a 4...you only want them you need a 3

I realize that I fly a bit differently than many of you but the 3m I have flies far less often than any other kite in my bag. I tend to fly the 2 the 4 and the 8.

riff...you are strange...thats ok

Just being honest. My avatar right now is my 4.5

gotta admit, 4m is the sweet size for my normal windy days and was my most used size when I had it. That's why I was quick to get a 4m now going back to fixed bridle.

Quote: Originally posted by DialedN_07

You guys and your buggies! I get the idea and love the concept.....BUT....buying a friggin buggy is just about if not more expensive than buying a decent kite :o I'm obviously ignorant on the subject, but can someone tell me why (WHAT SEEMS TO BE) a metal frame welded to two tires and a caster wheel in front costs so much cash? I mean I can't find buggies for less than $700-$875 online. NO WAY the wife will let that fly (<<<see what I did there???)

Do you golf? A single club isn't a big deal, but you can't run a course (well) with it. A single kite is fine, unless the wind changes...

Even at the low-end of the scale, you're paying for a vehicle that'll provide years of use/fun. You're welcome to try to build one for less, but 'd suggest taking a look at the threads that discuss why this (maybe) isn't any cheaper...

(Then again, my wife didn't know anything about my buggy until she saw me assembling it in our garage )

Bring your wife to WBB (I do) and she'll figure out the sense in loosening the purse strings.

Quote: Originally posted by DialedN_07

You guys and your buggies! I get the idea and love the concept.....BUT....buying a friggin buggy is just about if not more expensive than buying a decent kite :o I'm obviously ignorant on the subject, but can someone tell me why (WHAT SEEMS TO BE) a metal frame welded to two tires and a caster wheel in front costs so much cash? I mean I can't find buggies for less than $700-$875 online. NO WAY the wife will let that fly (<<<see what I did there???)

Keep an eye on the For Sale section, you can find used buggies as low as $350 to $400

I love the golf club analogy! Haven't heard it put that way beFOUR !

I am not pushing you to buggy. I love all rides. They all have their pro's and con's. I'll stick to the 2 choices you are working on.

ATB Pro's : Easy to throw in the car, carry to the field and jump on. Reasonable cost / reasonable shipping. JUMPING !!! :bouncing::bouncy::bouncing:
Con's: You need the right terrain. Only hard pack beaches, dry lakes and somewhat groomed fields. The worse the terrain the slower you have to go.

Buggy Pro's : You can ride them on much rougher terrain. Above high tide. You can go fast, REAL fast! Even on less than terrific terrain. You can jump but that is very advanced stuff. The cost of a buggy compared to a comparable mountain bike is a reasonable deal. ( actual quality buggies have more engineering in them than jumps out at you )You can buy a basic buggy and modify it with after market parts to suit your style.

Cons: You need to break them down to transport in your car or make a rack ( for large race buggies ) . You need to put them back together to get going. Storage. Sometimes shipping costs can kills a great deal.

IF Your location is a suitable one for ATB then stick with your plan. I am mostly warning you about how limited those locations can turn out to be.

I haven't read every post here, but I read most of yours. It seems you might be in a similar boat that I once was. I have flown stunt kites since I was about seven years old, and I am 30 now. I have been flying power kites for six or seven years now, and buggying for a little over three years. Kites always came naturally to me, as long as I can remember.

Flying a power kite IS NOT flying a stunt kite. Adding motion to the equation, on the water, or on the land, adds a whole other dimension again. My first power kite was a 5m Tensor, so I can directly relate my experience to you. Hang on to your 3.1. Maybe pass on the 4.2. Don't think of large or small kites in terms of skill levels. You have to remember that the kite size determines the wind you fly it in. I have many kites now, from a 5m all the way up to a 19m. I have to say that my 19m is far easier to fly than my 12m. I wouldn't get rid of any kite you own until you have one high wind, one low wind, and one daily driver. It is far easier to sell and trade kites when you have a full quiver, because then you are just making an adjustment, and not trading away your only kite.

I will second the idea that getting a depower is what you should do if you plan to ATB. Depowers make standing kite stuff so much easier to do because they help you balance while standing, and they typically have more grunt and pull than a fixed bridle will on handles. If you go for a depower foil, the setup and wrap up is exactly the same as a fixed bridle foil, sometimes quicker because of how much easier and faster it is to wrap lines on a bar.

Another good thing about depower kites is that you actually can stretch a full quiver out of maybe two good depowers and fly in almost every wind condition. They can adjust on the fly without taking them down to move knots. You just move your trim strap at the bar and the kite flies differently for the wind you are in. Depower kites are expensive. Most new depower kites are over $1000, and plenty are over $2000. The benefit to them is that you would need two or three fixed bridle kites to handle the same wind range as a single depower. I have two main depowers that I fly way more than my fixed bridles. I have a 12m Peter Lynn Charger II, which flies from about 10 mph until around 30 mph, and I have the 19m Speed 3 Deluxe, which flies from the time you feel wind on your skin until about 20 mph. I would have to own 5-6 fixed bridle kites to cover that same range, and they would probably equal or be higher than the same price. I do own several fixed bridles as well, as they are fun for the buggy also, but I really only use them on beaches with smooth winds. The depowers I can fly basically wherever the wind blows.

Do yourself a favor. Hang on to what you have now, and start saving for a kite fund. Look into getting something like a Ozone Access or Frenzy in the 8-12m range. If you buy used, which will be a lot cheaper, I recommend sticking to 2015 and newer because they have a new safety system that is amazing. Find a harness that fits well and keep asking lots of questions. We know our sh*t.

Oh and as for the expensive buggy thing; yeah you can pay as much as you want for a buggy, but if you have friends like us and know where to look, you can get insane deals on buggies. I have a fully custom buggy that Van made for me that is a lot cheaper than you would imagine.

Let me know if you want to go flying sometime at the monument. I am always looking for flying partners. I have a great place to fly near me as well if you are in Alexandria/Springfield/lorton area that you can buggy in. And I have an extra buggy if you want to try it.

You guys are awesome. Thanks for keeping this dialogue open. I really appreciate all the feedback and support.

I've received multiple offers to drive a bit and try out some kites. Looks like I'll be heading to VA Beach and back to DC sometime in the near future!

ShortlineFlyer. I'll definately do that. I'm up in DC/MD/VA for work about once a month and I'll try to make arrangements on my next trip.

Demoknight. Very cool, and awesome info! Thanks.

Went to the beach this weekend. Gained a ton of experience on the handles, and just for fun, switched to the bar. Got about 5 hours of flight time in (wife wasn't thrilled).
Getting "DialedN" with this Tensor 3.1. She pulls like a truck but has a tendency to tip tuck, and the wind window isn't as big as I was expecting. However, my arms and back were put to the test looping, swooping through the power zone and just generally having a great time.
I'm going to bring my kayak out tomorrow and see if I can get some pull in the shallows flying the kite over the sand. Probably look like a dufus, but figured I might as well give it a shot. I know this 3.1 can't touch the water without being a sea anchor, but let's give it a try anyway!

So much good news!

When you get a chance to meet up with some locals it sounds like you will be that much more ready to try some different kites and even try to ride.

Your goal should be to be able to keep the kite off to one side and under control without having to look at it when you meet up. If you can do that then you can pay the attention needed to the board / buggy + person who is instructing you. I suggest you take a bit of time next time you are in good clean wind to work on that.

Instead of buying a kite right away you may want to consider getting a harness and start getting used to being hooked in. Being comfortable with taking power through your own harness will make folks feel better about letting you try their depower + speed up your learning curve that day greatly. Once you have hands on experience with some bigger kites and depower you will have a better idea of what is working for folks in your area and why.

While playing around with the kayak sounds fun I have to think you might benefit more from that precious time improving your kite skills for another day or 2? This game is 90% kite skills. Getting them down 1st makes trying all that other stuff WAaaaaayy less frustrating! Trust me on that one!!!! The kayak will just run down wind too fast for you to figure out how to keep wind in the kite. I have never tried a kayak but am SURE it would be a big learning curve even with some pilot skills.

What would you guess was the average wind speed at the beach? Was it clean wind? Was the beach hard packed enough to ride ATB???

I was flying at high tide, so no. but during low tide I'd be willing to bed I could ATB, but probably not with the 3.1.
Wind speed. I have no idea, but it was clean. No gusts really at all. flags were flying ALMOST straight out. 15-20mph?

So let me ask you this.....when practicing "kite skills" tell me what you would look to fine tune. I can fly the kite for days without looking at it. Side of wind window, at zenith, and even lazy swoops without looking at the kite.

I practiced landing and utilizing the brakes in the power zone, and successfully completed about 30 landings and takeoffs on the handles and the bar. Also did some reverse launches on both. Also turned the handles out similar to a depower bar and did some propeller turns. The Tensor doesn't react well to this position with the handles.

But would again like feedback on what someone should focus on when flying.

I feel like I could make my own harness. I have access to a rock climbing harness. Do you think something like that would work for first?

As far as the kayak is concerned, I really just want to see the wind window while moving. I've watched videos and see the position the kite stays in while buggying or boarding, and that's just not possible while static flying. I just want to do SOMETHING with the kite while moving.

Sounds like you are doing all the right things as far as practicing and have more practice than I expected.

Getting comfortable with a harness seems the next best step for now?

With a buggy and board we run parallel to the wind. Holding that line is how we can park the kite at the edge and hold power in it. The kayak won't allow you to run cross wind. You will run down wind toward the kite. Handling the kite in such an extreme down winder will be tricky at best! Please Prove me wrong but I think it will lead to way more frustration than fun? NPW and a Kayak are a functional combo for down winders.

Quote: Originally posted by DialedN_07

I was flying at high tide, so no. but during low tide I'd be willing to bed I could ATB, but probably not with the 3.1. Wind speed. I have no idea, but it was clean. No gusts really at all. flags were flying ALMOST straight out. 12-16mph? So let me ask you this.....when practicing "kite skills" tell me what you would look to fine tune. I can fly the kite for days without looking at it. Side of wind window, at zenith, and even lazy swoops without looking at the kite. I practiced landing and utilizing the brakes in the power zone, and successfully completed about 30 landings and takeoffs on the handles and the bar. Also did some reverse launches on both. Also turned the handles out similar to a depower bar and did some propeller turns. The Tensor doesn't react well to this position with the handles. But would again like feedback on what someone should focus on when flying. I feel like I could make my own harness. I have access to a rock climbing harness. Do you think something like that would work for first? As far as the kayak is concerned, I really just want to see the wind window while moving. I've watched videos and see the position the kite stays in while buggying or boarding, and that's just not possible while static flying. I just want to do SOMETHING with the kite while moving.

Another few weeks and we'll be allowed to buggy on the beach again at Va Beach.. Once the crowds clear of course..

Saw a flag blowing on my way home from work and pulled off the side of the road


PS. How do I embed a video from Vimeo?

Good flying on the video!

You can't embed from Vimeo unfortunately... Only YT on this site.

Best you can do is use an image as your link using a photo sharing site.

It will look like this in the bb code:

[url =put your Vimeo link here][img] put your photo's link here [/img][/url]

Great flying! You have that low wind stuff down for sure and I can see how you feel stuck.

That low of wind takes us back to your issues. I think that is enough wind to get you moving on tarmac with a long board or rollerblades and a well chosen NPW? Unfortunately without a real big space and a real big kite this seems your most fun local option? In that wind the 4.1 would only have done the same stuff slower. You may have been able to create a tiny bit more power but at the cost of fine control.