I just got my 3.5 and 9.5m LS2s in the mail yesterday. They look OUTSTANDING. Beautiful colors and great workmanship. The new bar looks to be top
quality, really first rate. I can't wait to fly these next week at IBX!!!
Wow - you do ook like Mad Max covered with all that body armour. Then again, Max is a survivor.
I know, right? :D
As my good friend John Alden (cerebite) coined, I was donned in "plastic courage" from head to toe. :karate: Great credit actually goes to him. The
upper body plastic courage is the exact same brand and style as he uses complete with the use of a fly fishing vest. The vest is a great final touch.
It adds no heat and is loaded with pockets large and small. Perfect for stowing gear for the great vast expanse.
The helmet feels very sturdy and would likely be useful in a crash, but the part that juts out over my chin made it hard to see my AQR setup. It took
me a while to get comfortable with a kite up in the air sitting in the buggy fiddling with a carabiner trying to get it to clip into the metal ring of
the system. I got the hang of it eventually but a helmet with a slightly less jutting chin piece would have made it easier.
Awesome photos, Steve! Love the top one with the solar tower.
Thanks John! Pretty special place to ride, that's for sure. That photo is deceiving as the tower is really far away. The panels below the tower
(those thousands and thousands of little bright dots are each giant panels being aimed by a computer to converge the light on the tower. Though I'm
sure far more complicated than this, the tower is essentially a large barrel of water that gets boiled by the converging light driving turbines to
generate the power. Not-so-small problem with that design is that it is like a giant Kentucky Fried Chicken near its base. Any bird, large or small,
that flies too close to the tower gets literally fried. The base of the tower is supposedly absolutely covered with the charred remains of countless
poor avian souls.
I've received some questions about the 3.5 LS2 as a high wind kite on the playa. I have to say that I am extremely impressed and give it a 9 out of
10. Two issues kept it from receiving highest marks. First, the kite is very small so it only becomes practical as a high wind kite. For good pulling
in a buggy with heavy rider (that would be me) the winds should be in the 30+ mph range. That much wind causes hell on the bridles before getting it
up in the air. Twice I had some decent tangles in the bridling between laying it out without tangles on a pole and getting back to the bar to hook in.
One half point off for the messy bridles since this is really a SS thing and the price one pays for having a kite that is light weight, highly
packable, and able to get smashed into the ground without blowing any cells.
The second issue was that once you choke the kite down with the clam cleat adjustment and let the bar out (a wonderful way to scrub just about all the
power out of the kite) it gets sort of loose and can go through some disconcerting collapse/re-inflate cycles. Not a big deal in a buggy, but should
somebody be on Coyotes, for example these power surges could be a tad problematic. I'm sure a lot of this was pilot error and swirling winds. One half
point off again.
Now the good stuff: very smooth power buildup and dumping with bar movement. Very firm in the sky with virtually no flapping. This is in contrast to
the 4m P2 that had a very steep power curve and flapped like crazy with the bar out. I was very confident flying this kite in winds that gusted over
40 mph. I didn't take the chance to try it in 50+ gusts. I suspect the kite would have been fine, but on the Ivanpah playa such winds cause a full
Brown Out from both a visual and sartorial perspective.
Bottom line this is a GREAT high wind kite. Very stable, very predictable, very fun. Highly recommended. Don't plan on me selling this kite anytime
soon!
I just edited the review of 3.5m LS2 bumping up my score to a 9 out of 10. I really, really like this kite. I would judge this review as having a SS
specific rating. Single skins have some distinct attributes that in my mind are packability, lightness, ability to launch and stay in the air in very
light winds, ability to withstand multiple pile drives into the ground without bursting cells (there aren't any to burst), and just flat out the
coolest kites on the playa. :evil:
The price one pays for these aforementioned attributes is a ton of bridling and some stability issues when the kite is slack. The latter may well be
related to piloting errors on my part.
Bottom line, if single skins are your thing the LS2s are mighty fine kites.
Awesome photos, Steve! Love the top one with the solar tower.
Though I'm sure far more complicated than this, the tower is essentially a large barrel of water that gets boiled by the converging light driving
turbines to generate the power.
It is more complicated, the barrel is filled with salt that gets so hot it turns liquid.
Just reading your write up on the 3.5m, how does it compare to your previous 4m P2?... you said above that the 3.5m only does the deed over 30mph...
how does that compare to the P2?
Nice how you point out how one would feel on Coyotes. + that you aren't going to sell the 3.5 anytime soon. 2 things inquiring minds wanted to know!
You may call it a small kite but when you were out there and everybody else was franticly buzzing about on 1.5 - 2m kites that star looked like and
acted like a real grown up kite! MY style of kite!!
I am so kicking my :moon: for not getting a spin on it. I suspect that a lightweight in a light buggy or blades or ATB on a fast surface would be able
to spank a pretty decent bottom end out of that star? We almost never get 30mph winds here and if we do they are usually real messy. My trusty Profoil
works well in " survival " conditions but is ready to self destruct. I am not rushing but suspect the next kite I buy will be this one.
Just reading your write up on the 3.5m, how does it compare to your previous 4m P2?... you said above that the 3.5m only does the deed over 30mph...
how does that compare to the P2?
Spencer - I think you can have a blast on this kite in winds under 30 mph. I'd think you could get up and going in any winds in the mid 20s and up.
Anything under 20 and it would be grossly under powered. These numbers seem so arbitrary since so much depends on rolling resistance, air density,
temperature, etc. Particularly rolling resistance of course.
I like this kite a whole lot better than the 4.0m P2. I did read that Flysurfer did the most revision to the line in the 4.0m in the P3 release so
maybe anything I say about the P2 is now superfluous for the P3.
Compared to the 4.0m P2, the 3.5m LS2 seems to have comparable pull (though I flew these two kites one year apart!). Both can be nicely toned down by
pulling in the clam cleat line and letting out the bar. Two big differences, both in favor of the LS2 vs P2: Far more stable and solid looking and
feeling in the air, particularly when letting out the bar. The P2 flaps like a furious bird when flown that way while the LS2 still stays pretty
solid with only a bit of wiggle in the lower corners. Both kites are solid in the air when the bar is pulled in. Second, the power curve feels right
on the LS2 but wrong on the P2. The P2 rapidly drops and gains power with bar movement (a really steep curve) while the LS2 has a smooth nicely
dialed in curve.
I haven't seen the 4.0m P3 but the 3.5m LS2 has more and longer bridles than the 6.0m P2. All this bridling is both a blessing and a curse as Steffen
put it and I agree with him. More bridling keeps the single skin really solid and beautifully filled in the air, but you will curse when you tangle
the bridles. In the 3.5m size you will be using this kite in high winds, and I had some tangles develop that needed to be worked out by hand that
formed in the time between when the kite was laid out on a pole and when I had walked back to the bar to hook in. This was a non-issue with the 9.5m
since I was using it in lighter winds. I suspect that this bridle tangling issue gets worse the smaller the kite gets since you use it in stronger
and stronger wind.
Speaking just between the 3.5m LS2 and the 4.0m P2 I have a clear preference for the LS2. While I'm sure the 12.5m LS2 is a fine kite in its own
right my heart is already spoken for with the 12m P3 aka Session Saver!
Nice how you point out how one would feel on Coyotes. + that you aren't going to sell the 3.5 anytime soon. 2 things inquiring minds wanted to know!
You may call it a small kite but when you were out there and everybody else was franticly buzzing about on 1.5 - 2m kites that star looked like and
acted like a real grown up kite! MY style of kite!!
I am so kicking my :moon: for not getting a spin on it. I suspect that a lightweight in a light buggy or blades or ATB on a fast surface would be able
to spank a pretty decent bottom end out of that star? We almost never get 30mph winds here and if we do they are usually real messy. My trusty Profoil
works well in " survival " conditions but is ready to self destruct. I am not rushing but suspect the next kite I buy will be this one.
Ken(2): You are no doubt correct. I am, err, gravitationally challenged and represent a whole lot larger load to accelerate than you would on your
coyotes. I suspect you'd be getting comparable performance in 10mph lighter winds on your Coyotes than I would in my buggy.
Anything under 20 and it would be grossly under powered.
Wow, the air must be pretty thin - comparatively - at Ivanpah. I haven't had the 3.5m in the buggy yet, but I did have an enjoyable static session in
8 - 12 knots on the beach a couple days ago. Even in that wind, 10ft scuds were compulsory when I kept the bar pulled in - buggying would have been
absolutely no problem. With the bar fully out (I've got a 'home put-together' job with a longish throw atm) there was a small amount of 'rustling'
and little pull from the kite. It was very well behaved and I was able to touch down at the edge, let the bar out and drop the chicken loop over a
stake and go and grab the kite which just bobbed up and down at the edge. 20 knots (22mph?) is going to be well and truly lit up down here. 14 -15
knots should be really nicely powered. Hope to get the little green one and the big yellow one in the buggy soon.
Anything under 20 and it would be grossly under powered.
Wow, the air must be pretty thin - comparatively - at Ivanpah. I haven't had the 3.5m in the buggy yet, but I did have an enjoyable static session in
8 - 12 knots on the beach a couple days ago. Even in that wind, 10ft scuds were compulsory when I kept the bar pulled in - buggying would have been
absolutely no problem. With the bar fully out (I've got a 'home put-together' job with a longish throw atm) there was a small amount of 'rustling'
and little pull from the kite. It was very well behaved and I was able to touch down at the edge, let the bar out and drop the chicken loop over a
stake and go and grab the kite which just bobbed up and down at the edge. 20 knots (22mph?) is going to be well and truly lit up down here. 14 -15
knots should be really nicely powered. Hope to get the little green one and the big yellow one in the buggy soon.
Wind speeds are so hard to judge. It's not as if I'm getting out my wind meter each time. I would say that the air at Ivanpah is pretty much bone dry
and at some altitude (not mountain high but sure as heck not sea level). OK, just looked it up: 2,600 ft. I'm also a whee tad, shall we say,
gravitationally challenged, coming in over 100 kg by a fair margin.
Awesome how you can land it on its side like that! That's some beautiful smooth onshore winds talking I suspect. Maybe not, but at IBX when the winds
were high enough to necessitate the 3.5m LS2 they were also pretty punchy and squirrelly at times and a move like that would have been hard to pull
off. I was able to get her nice and stable at the edge of the wind window but I don't think I would have dared to hook the chicken loop as you
described.
Yeah, most likely the 'bone dry' thing, whereas the onshore breeze coming over the southern ocean has probably got a fair bit of moisture in it thus
being a lot more dense. The 3.5m is certainly WAY less 'flappier' than the 4m P2. I will rig up the FAS system on both kites shortly and see how
that goes also.
The FAS system got lost in the mail somewhere. But I did manage to finally get the 9.5m out of it's bag and attach the lines. What an awesome beast
she is too. 6 - 8 knots she was pulling like a truck. At one point I launched it in what could have only been 2 - 3 knots and honestly did not
expect it to fly let alone pull the buggy, but it launched with ease and with some fig 8-ing, moved me down the beach to where the wind picked up
another couple of knots allowing me to park n ride back to base. We had tried to get Rob's 12m LEI back into the air in the same wind speed.....not a
chance. Quite responsive and easy to turn for a big-ish kite especially when you see how much depower I had pulled. Really put a smile on my dial
after not buggying for 7 months.
The FAS system got lost in the mail somewhere. But I did manage to finally get the 9.5m out of it's bag and attach the lines. What an awesome beast
she is too. 6 - 8 knots she was pulling like a truck. At one point I launched it in what could have only been 2 - 3 knots and honestly did not
expect it to fly let alone pull the buggy, but it launched with ease and with some fig 8-ing, moved me down the beach to where the wind picked up
another couple of knots allowing me to park n ride back to base. We had tried to get Rob's 12m LEI back into the air in the same wind speed.....not a
chance. Quite responsive and easy to turn for a big-ish kite especially when you see how much depower I had pulled. Really put a smile on my dial
after not buggying for 7 months.
Great to see you posting Mr. Holgate. She is a honey! It's been months since I've buggied as well. You've likely seen the "video" Steffen put
together of the still photographs of me with the 9.5 on Ivanpah. It was as rock steady there as on your beautiful beach. Vastly refined from the
1.0! Beautiful sunset towards the end my friend.
A number of months back I bought the powder blue Big Momma, the 12.5m. It sits patiently in my garage awaiting its maiden flight as well. I hope to
use it on Ivanpah this November when a few of us are putting a trip together around US Thanksgiving. I've had success in the past on Ivanpah using
the 12m P2 and P3 in the mid to late morning when the playa often transitions over an hour or so from being essentially wind still to barely
breathing. I suspect the 12.5m LS2 will shine once I can feel a breeze on my face.
Should you be able to work it out, Steffen's leading edge safety system works as advertised, the penalty for use being the risk of lots of bridle work
after deployment. :o
I hope this is a resurfacing of sorts for you on PKF - you've been missed! :karate:
I'm considering filling the holes in my quiver with these, and possibly selling off the other kites to get the full set (eventually). The idea is
that my hubby and I will share them, with him using one size larger than me in the same wind. The only other kites I have as a reference are a 7.5m
Apex III and a 12.5m Montana III (I haven't flown the Montana, it's way too big!).
How are these Longstar 2's in comparison to a twin skin foil like the Apex/Montana? We snowkite on skis in the Sierra, so the winds are always gusty
and inconsistent. Lately we've had a hard time finding winds low enough to even get the kites up, resulting in many faceplants :o From reading about
the Longstars and also Peaks it seems like these kites would be good in our kind of winds. We're planning on getting either mountain boards or
buggies in the summer and we have a couple of dry lake beds nearby, so the kites would be used for that as well, but the winds will be similarly
inconsistent (either howling or dead). We don't plan on doing any (intentional) jumping... we're looking for well-mannered kites with plenty of
depower that won't kick our arses!
Also, a question about the bars available for these. The plan was to buy a bar each and attach whichever size kite we want to use. Are the Born
adjustable bars the best for this plan? Or is there a different bar that would work? How are they compared to other bars that we could get, both
price and functionality-wise?
Last question... for those who have ordered these from the US, how are the shipping charges, and do you get charged import duty? Also, do they
subtract the VAT for non-EU buyers?
Sorry for the mass of questions! Unfortunately we're unable to make it to IBX otherwise I'd be bugging you all for answers in person
Prism Snapshot 2.5
Prism Tensor 3.1
HQ Apex III 7.5
HQ Montana III 12.5
I'm considering filling the holes in my quiver with these, and possibly selling off the other kites to get the full set (eventually). The idea is
that my hubby and I will share them, with him using one size larger than me in the same wind. The only other kites I have as a reference are a 7.5m
Apex III and a 12.5m Montana III (I haven't flown the Montana, it's way too big!).
How are these Longstar 2's in comparison to a twin skin foil like the Apex/Montana? We snowkite on skis in the Sierra, so the winds are always gusty
and inconsistent. Lately we've had a hard time finding winds low enough to even get the kites up, resulting in many faceplants :o From reading about
the Longstars and also Peaks it seems like these kites would be good in our kind of winds. We're planning on getting either mountain boards or
buggies in the summer and we have a couple of dry lake beds nearby, so the kites would be used for that as well, but the winds will be similarly
inconsistent (either howling or dead). We don't plan on doing any (intentional) jumping... we're looking for well-mannered kites with plenty of
depower that won't kick our arses!
Also, a question about the bars available for these. The plan was to buy a bar each and attach whichever size kite we want to use. Are the Born
adjustable bars the best for this plan? Or is there a different bar that would work? How are they compared to other bars that we could get, both
price and functionality-wise?
Last question... for those who have ordered these from the US, how are the shipping charges, and do you get charged import duty? Also, do they
subtract the VAT for non-EU buyers?
Sorry for the mass of questions! Unfortunately we're unable to make it to IBX otherwise I'd be bugging you all for answers in person
I'm not sure how many people own LS2s in the US. I may be the only person on PKF with a complete quiver. I believe a few people have and are pleased
with a lone kite here and there, particularly the 3.5m. I am a big fan of Single Skins, liking them for their compact size, ability to launch in low
winds, and their big depower/gust handling capabilities. These qualities are found in many, many other kites as welll, but for me they come together
nicely in the LS2s. I owned a complete quiver of Peak 2s and swore by them, tried a couple of Peak 3s which didn't work for me (single pulley per
side DP resulting in too much bar pressure for my liking), and finally settled on the LS2s which I like a lot.
Assuming you and your hubby are sufficiently different in size (no, I'm not asking!) then your idea of the two of you being on two different sizes
should work out well. I've got to say, however, that when the wind is strong on Ivanpah I want the 3.5m in the air and I weigh North of 225 lbs.
Bars - the adjustable width bar Born offers is sweet. I actually turned Steffen on to the bar a few years ago so I may be a tad biased, but it is
nice to be able to tune up and tune down steering based on conditions. His kites just need all the lines to be the same length just like other DP
kites so any bar should work that does that. His bar is a good quality and wouldn't steer you wrong. It's expensive, but so are all good bars.
The LS2s are low aspect ratio kites that aren't what you'd call "lifty" and they are effective at letting off steam when the gusts come through. They
stay generally well behaved when you pull in the trim lines, and doing so allows you to massively depower them. I've been on Ivanpah with the winds
over 40 mph and had safe feeling fun with the 3.5m trimmed up.
A downside of the LS2s is that as SS they need a lot of bridles to maintain structure in the air. They have a lot of bridles and you will spend time
keeping the bridles not tangled. Price you pay for SS, no way around it. This can be a pain in the seat meat sometimes and something to consider.
As for snow kiting, the nicest high wind kite I ever skied under was the 6m Ozone Access with Re-Ride. That is in my mind the ultimate high wind snow
kite. I stopped snow kiting a few years ago at the request of my wife and only buggy now. If I were still snowkiting I may have kept a 6m Access in
my quiver for just "those" days. Never did snowkite with the LS2s but I suspect they would do nicely.
Thanks Windstruck, this is just the kind of info I was looking for. My hubby and I are sized differently enough that he should be on a kite one size
larger than me (used to be two sizes!), which is why I think the shared quiver will work. We're looking for the most economical way to to do this, so
sharing seems like a good idea!
While I'd love to have a full set of Ozone Access kites at my disposal they are really expensive. The thing that draws me toward single skins is that
they seem to be good value and they also pack up much smaller/lighter than the kites we have, while still giving you good performance (as long as
you're not jumping).
If you were going to look for a used bar to use with the Longstars, what would you choose?
Prism Snapshot 2.5
Prism Tensor 3.1
HQ Apex III 7.5
HQ Montana III 12.5
Thanks Windstruck, this is just the kind of info I was looking for. My hubby and I are sized differently enough that he should be on a kite one size
larger than me (used to be two sizes!), which is why I think the shared quiver will work. We're looking for the most economical way to to do this, so
sharing seems like a good idea!
While I'd love to have a full set of Ozone Access kites at my disposal they are really expensive. The thing that draws me toward single skins is that
they seem to be good value and they also pack up much smaller/lighter than the kites we have, while still giving you good performance (as long as
you're not jumping).
If you were going to look for a used bar to use with the Longstars, what would you choose?
I'm afraid I'm not much help in the "which bar should you buy department". If nobody else jumps in you might want to create a WANTED thread with your
question about a used bar and see if you get bites that way.
As for the Ozone Access V6 or V7 (the versions with Re-Ride), the only two sizes I would concern yourselves with are the 6m for you and the 8m for
your hubby (who I assume is now one size smaller than before, not the other possibility :P ). Larger Access kites are a big disappointment IMHO and
the 4m really will never get used. If it's blowing hard enough for the 4m Access to be the right call over the 6m then you have bigger things to be
thinking about like dodging flying debris. Maybe on a dry lake bed with low rolling resistance and winds well above 30 mph, but in snow a 4m Access
just won't see much use. I'm taking that from Tami (UtahTami) an accomplished snowkiter and buggy queen in her own right (female world speed record
holder in the buggy). She is mighty but on the, err, vertically challenged, side, coming in I'd suspect in the 5 foot 100 lb range or thereabouts
(each inch and ounce being full of steam, nerve, pep, and general moxie by the way :D ). She owned and didn't really end up using the 4m Access if I
recall correctly.
I agree that the SS are supreme in the pack-down-small category. Hard to beat half the skins and no baffling. Bridling just packs down tighter even
if it is a pain in the seat meat when it gets tangled which it will do more so than with comparable twin skinned kites.
The SS kites you are mentioning (Peaks and LS2s) are low aspect kites which is why they aren't ideal for jumping. The soon-to-be-released Born-Kite
RaceStars, for example, are high AR kites and would be more "lifty" than other SS kites. There isn't anything inherent in SS that make them worse for
jumping (or better for staying on the ground as intended if that is the way you are looking at it); rather, it is just that the main SS kites on the
commercial market (Peaks, LS2s, NS3s) are all low AR kites. Maybe there is some other subtle difference too but I bet that's mainly it.
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