Hi all! Preview:

I just got into kite-flying. I've been stalking this forum for a few months now and finally decided to join.

My love for kites started with a Prism Nexus... it was a beautiful day with 15 mph winds and the second I had the kite in the air, I knew I wanted to start power-kiting. The feeling was awesome.

I started researching; videos like this caught my eye. But upon more research, I decided to take y'alls advice and buy a 3.1 FB for my first kite. The first day I launched it like a fool in 30 mph winds before a massive storm. I got yanked like 100 feet and had my first Code Brown. Okay... I'm hooked. (definitely learned A LOT that day)

So that's my story, currently I just static-fly my Prism Tensor 3.1. I want to start ATB this year, and then on to kite-surfing within a few years. But here is my glorious plan to achieve my goals :smug:

Step 1 Buy a used ATB (and any corresponding gear?) for my Prism Tensor. Get some riding under my belt.

Step 2 Purchase a used 12M Peter Lynn Arc. I have heard that these are great de-powers for beginners, as they are cheap, have auto-apex, and apparently eat gusts for breakfast. I also like that they are self-inflating and that maybe one day I could use it for learning to kite-surf :puzzled:. I am thinking 12m because winds here at Florida are pretty steadily 10-15 mph or less. However, as I started researching ARCS I heard that they have spars, and I'm not even sure what those are. I also foundthis article and nearly decided to quit kiting. :o So much info... is this really a good kite for beginners???

Step 3 Get a harness and helmet, start riding/static flying with the Arc. Learn to fly blind.

Step 4 start jumping and having a crap-ton of fun! :D:D:D

Step 5 enter the kite-surfing world which I am sure I will flesh out when get there.



So to those who have much more experience and/or wisdom than myself... what are your thoughts? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Personal info

Gender: Male
Weight: 175lbs
Location: Central Florida
Flying Spots: Mostly inland fields/and some beach
Budget: $1500 or less to get to Step 4


Also thanks to everyone's earlier contributions to the forum that got me where I am without getting hurt! You helped me without even knowing it.

Welcome Indestructible Young Man!
I am still a newb like you but not young and not indestructible.
My suggestion is to get a helmet first,
Consider starting with depower kites rather than FBs and relearning. (heresy to many here!)
Jump over water, or soft snow, not hard land.
Also try a buggy on a beach or playa with an AQR.

Just my 2 cents, YMMV.

Wind_dog

Very well thought out...Most of us just look to get our heads stoved in right away
That prisim will be fine to get moving on board if you learn to pilot it well so take care of that 1st

It's good to have a plan. First is the goal, then break down the steps, check!
Important is to always view the plan from wherever you are, not from wherever you started.
Flexibility is key to a good plan.
Advice. Don't lock yourself in by purchasing equipment to grow into. There might be a couple of kites between you and the 12m Arc.
The best kite is always the one you can use the most now.
That said, the Arcs are truly beautiful in the air, just not my air, yet.

Missing a step between step 3 and step 4....

Get lots of experience before step 4....It's a dangerous aspect of this sport.

Despite your name, you are not really indestructible.

Welcome to this great sport.

I think you may want to swap steps 2 and 3? Actually I would move the helmet to step 1. Keep learn to fly blind in step 2.

There is no reason not to get used to hooking in with your Prism. Your goal with that kite should be to learn to fly it blind. It won't translate 100% to depower but will be a valuable step. I taught myself by setting the kite to one side and relaxing / resting even sitting on a log. I would people watch or watch the boats to practice control while distracted.

A 12m arc isn't that big once in the air. In your 10 - 15mph winds it will just barely be enough.

Learning to ride ATB with just a 3.1m will be a struggle. You will need some pretty strong winds. Very strong if you don't have a fast surface. With a smalll kite the power is sort of on and off as it travels through the window. Not leaving you much to lean against when not in the power zone. A larger depower kite in lighter winds delivers smooth and cosistant power. You won't need to be near as aggresive with the kite to get usable power. The extra canopy will give you more of a skyhook feeling to lean against.

Step 4 Is what we all strive for. You will be tempted ( and likely ) to try jumping with your 3.1. It WILL lift you but isn't big enough to float you. A more advanced pilot than me can produce lift in the air by aggressive piloting to keep up the speed / lift needed. I personally rarely jump static and never with a small kite.

Wow appreciate all the tips. I am thinking a helmet is probably something I should look into right away...

I will try to learn to fly blind... I am just so afraid of crashing my kite and bursting a cell.

Bladerunner you guessed correctly about the jumping... I found that 30mph storm winds will definitely get you in the air, but not necessarily set you down with ease. (perhaps it was just my skill level)

I wonder would a 15m ARC be a terrible decision for a second kite? I want to be careful not to "lock myself in" as is probably common with new-comers, but I definitely would like something that has lift in the 10-15 mph wind range. I think someone used the word "skyhook" ... which sounds like an unbelievably awesome feeling.

My first kite 3 years ago was a PL escape Lei used. I'm at altitude in CO so my goal first was to conquer the snow. 3 years later I now own 6. My advice find somebody local to learn with. My first ride could have been even more disastrous then it was, but nearby friends probably saved me from a fate worse than bumps and bruises. Every great advancement I have had was when I kite with new friends. You're plan seems sound get as much flying time in as you can. 3 years and I still have not figured water mostly due to CO sucks for unfrozen water. I'm wandering have fun, enjoy

A 12 m arc is not going to be very powerful in 10-12 mph winds. You would need a 15-18m to have lift and good power in those winds. The 15 would be more what you need as a first arc. A 15m Phantom was my third kite and my first depower. I sold it and then got the chance to buy it back 4 years later.

My first arc was a....well I actually bought two of them as a pair. But they were a 10m and a 16m Venom. After flying them both static a number of times in low wind. My nutz dropped and my brain function shut down. I decided to go bugging in a nasty storm. My wind meter showed 31-35mph wind so I decided to put up the 10m Venom. I had one of the most amazing buggy runs of my life. I had a blast. But I was still a newbie. Hell im still a newbie and that kite took care of me like the stupid little kid I was. Just to reaffirm my statement. On the same outing I decided to try my new 3m HQ Toxic FB and I got the crap kicked out of me. I just wasn't skilled enough. It wasn't the kites fault it was my own. At first I blamed it on the kite. But soon learned it was me. Now I have a 15m Phantom II and I am in love. I'm still a stupid little kid when I get in the buggy. But these kites are like gentle giants. You will never regret buying one. Don't look at it as locking yourself in as apposed to gaining a new found friend. Although I really don't like people very much so. I might be a little biased on that one haha.

If you practice flying blind the way I describe it will be hard to pile drive the kite.

Generally you want to CONTROL the kite rather than fly it! Beginners get confused with that concept. Setting it off to one side is the way to go. You want to get in the habit of resting up with the kite to one side to avoid lofting. With clean wind you should be able to keep the kite sitting steady anyplace along the edge of the window. From zenith right down to touching a tip on the ground. If you haven't worked on that you should.

If the wind is messy your kite won't sit at the edge. It will surge forward with gusts and drop back with lull's. A right PITA but learning to react to those surges and lulls is very valuable.

I am with the others who suggest a 15m arc if you only have 1 and your typical wind is 10 - 15mph.

I absolutely agree that we all progress faster when we are riding with others. Even if you have to drive for hours to hook up with somebody it will pay off in spades! If there is ANY WAY you can make it to the JIBE event in May the experience will be priceless!!!!

Glad to hear the following that ARC's seem to have. I was mainly attracted to them because of their price :D Seem to be going around $300 or $400.

I thought 15M was going to be way to big but I guess I wasn't thinking about "projected area." It makes sense that they are not to much to handle in the air because of their curvature.

Next session I will try flying blind... the Prism Tensor loves to back-stall though, even in the nicest of winds. I have it trimmed to full power with slack on the brakes, but still stalls at the sides and the zenith. Maybe too much power?? Idk.

I would love to find somebody nearby in Florida. I already sent a shout-out in the Locations section.

If you are able to change the angle of attack on your prism, you might have it set too grunty. This means the tail is too close to the handles and the nose too far away. Tiny adjustments have big results so take it slow and check the outcome.

IYM - best move for you if possible might be to go to JIBE this May. You will get to see a lot of kites/boards/buggies in action.

Quote: Originally posted by IndestructibleYoungMan

Glad to hear the following that ARC's seem to have. I was mainly attracted to them because of their price :D Seem to be going around $300 or $400. I thought 15M was going to be way to big but I guess I wasn't thinking about "projected area." It makes sense that they are not to much to handle in the air because of their curvature. Next session I will try flying blind... the Prism Tensor loves to back-stall though, even in the nicest of winds. I have it trimmed to full power with slack on the brakes, but still stalls at the sides and the zenith. Maybe too much power?? Idk. I would love to find somebody nearby in Florida. I already sent a shout-out in the Locations section.

Actually arcs are losing their following. This is why they are becoming cheaper. Newer foils, single skins and LEI have improved their gust munching in recent years. Arcs still scare me when I am launching in it's upper range. They look SO huge on the ground. Typically after I man up and launch I wonder why I was so worried. Arcs thrive on wind and work best in there upper end.

It sounds to me like your winds are the problem as much and more than the setting on your kite? Are you talking inland winds or the beach? I suspect you will have much better success on the beach. With unsteady winds the kite will surge or drop back. Still adjusting your AOA may help? It is pretty hard to " fly blind " in Janky winds. You want to hold it off to the side and see how long you can go before FEELING the kite surge or stall. Then you may need to look at it as you make corrections. As I mentioned you want to work on keeping the kite calm and in CONTROL. Flying blind should maybe be referred to as controlling blind. Once you are in motion the 2 combine.

Keep looking for people to fly with. There are a few pilots in Florida? I can't stress enough how valuable a visit to JIBE will be. Even if you have to go in debt to pay for it over time you will save in the long run. You will learn more than you can imagine + see all sorts of gear. Likely giving you a better idea of what you really want. Odds are huge somebody there will have 12 and 15m arcs in the air and most folks will take the time to introduce you to flying theirs, if you ask.

What the others say is true. My first trip to SOBB I only had two kites and no buggy. But having the opportunity to talk with people and see the different kites and gear was huge. I had seen all these things on the internet. But you don't fully know or even understand until you see them in person. Going to SOBB also allowed me to make some new friends. Which in turn led me to my first buggy a few months later. A year later I returned to SOBB with a buggy and a hand full of kites. I had been learning to buggy for about 6 months by this time. I learned more in 6 hour then I had learned in 6 months on my own. I had so many people giving me help, tips,pointers, people letting me try there kites. I learned so so much in such a short time and gained some good friends in the process. If you can in any way find the ability to make it to a gathering you will never regret it.

Man, you guys are really making me think about going to JIBE. I am not by any means an "event person." The shy 12 year old in me comes out. Not to mention, all that money could be buying me an ARC

That being said, I am considering this. I hate learning curves, and would rather just jump into something with all the gear and figure out the rest. I realize that is (probably) not actually the best way to do things.

The Prism's AOA is adjustable; it has an extended bridle with various knots on both the brake and leading edge lines. I'll make some adjustments and try flyin... errr controlling it by feeling not sight. :D

My winds are pretty "Janky." I do most of my flying inland in a small field near my job. Just easier than driving 45 minutes. Also, the last time I went to the beach the wind was on the water and janky as heck... I'll try again at some point though.

Oh, and I did finally go and by a helmet

If you come to JIBE, you will cram a year of home kiting experience into a few days. That is the nicest place I have ever flown. Miles of empty hard pack sand and lots of guys of various kiting experience levels. You will get to try kites and buggies, and get pointers on what kind of wind to look for. When I first started in power kiting, I used to have a different outlook on the wind that I would ride, but now I know what to look for in the weather and geography so I can save myself headaches of untangling lines and packing up kites in a wad made because the wind is too janky or nonexistent.

Don't beat yourself up if you struggle flying blind in your local winds. It's not easy. Sometimes pretty much impossible but good to try.

If you get to the beach and some nice clean winds you will never look at your local spot the same again!

Getting to JIBE before shelling out money on gear will pay off in the long haul. You won't have to imagine how very different kites and rides you can't even imagine fly and ride. Folks are all so nice and respectful that these gatherings that it will be the perfect place to break that shy kid thing. By the nature of our sport we are all 12 years old at heart. We have just learned how to " play well with others " 30, 40, 50 years later!

Yes! Please come to JIBE and kite with us!!!
We have some Florida guys and gals that come every year. Maybe you can buddy up in a caravan or catch a ride up.
You won't regret it. Can pitch a tent at the camp ground, or stay at the $$$$ Westin resort, or anything in-between.
Plenty of friendly people with all sorts of boards and buggies. Every type of kite you can think of is in the air. Single skins, foils, arcs, etc.

Well guys you convinced me... I requested time off from work to go to JIBE for at least one day on the 8th!!! Hopefully I will get to try some big kites while I am there.


I've been flying a lot this week. Today we had 20 mph sustained winds at the beach! Bye-bye went my back-stalling issue... at least for the most part. I could park on the star-board side of the window without any issues. No matter what I did on the port side it would eventually stall downward :puzzled:


I also tried flying blind for extended periods of time. It worked pretty well, but the Prism is not very "stable." It is twitchy as heck. I found that (when I wasn't looking) I needed to work it a bit just so I could feel the pressure and know where/what it was doing. The wind was so good that I did some high speed scudding and fun jumps. Scudding felt really intuitive and made me really want to get an ATB board soon.


Probably 15 LEI's were in the air today. I thought about talking to some of the guys, but I didn't really get a good vibe from them... maybe I was just envious


I know I am probably getting ahead of myself but besides this forum where is a good place to look at getting an ARC? I am thinking the Charger II 15m sounds like the best fit for me. I realize this isn't a charger but I want this kind of stability which I've heard ARCS have!

Don't worry; JIBE is more a gathering than an event. During the week, little events occur spontaneously. We look forward to welcoming you. Where in FLA are you? Big state.

YAY JIBE!!!! 6th year attending for me!!!

There will likely be a spare buggy or 2 for you to try so be prepared to want to go home and spend a lot of money :D

Thanks everybody again for all your advice, it really has paid off!

Since I first posted I have:

Bought some pads and a helmet
Taught myself to fly blind
Bought a used Trampa ATB :D:D:D
Learned to check conditions before flying (I use ikitesurf mostly)
Joined NAPKA
Bought a hotel reservation at Jekyll Island

Learning to fly without looking at the kite was probably the best advice I received (thanks Bladerunner, Beamerbob, Blitzhound and others). It really helped me when I took my Trampa to the Daytona for the first time two weeks ago. Conditions were 15mph wind mostly on-shore, clear skies, low-tide, just before sunset. (Thanks jimbocz and jimssi for the advice about conditions) I couldn't see the kite at all because of the sun, but I ended up being able to ride 2.5 miles because I had practiced. (I only looked at the kite the three times I fell off the board :o no serious injuries to speak of though, praise God) All of this was on a 3.1 m kite btw... the tensor hauls! I was rolling way faster than cyclists.

I had so much fun y'all! When I had finished riding my folks (who were actually visiting Daytona offered to give me a ride back... my first down-winder!

I really appreciate all the information and help that is available on this forum! I've gotta say just one thing though, whoever said you couldn't jump or ride with a 3.1... you definitely can! (at your own risk I suppose)

Thanks all, I am definitely open for more advice, especially when it comes to landboarding. I am currently having some trouble working my way back upwind... :puzzled:

Quote: Originally posted by IndestructibleYoungMan

Thanks everybody again for all your advice, it really has paid off! Since I first posted I have: Bought some pads and a helmet Taught myself to fly blind Bought a used Trampa ATB :D:D:D Learned to check conditions before flying (I use ikitesurf mostly) Joined NAPKA Bought a hotel reservation at Jekyll Island Learning to fly without looking at the kite was probably the best advice I received (thanks Bladerunner, Beamerbob, Blitzhound and others). It really helped me when I took my Trampa to the Daytona for the first time two weeks ago. Conditions were 15mph wind mostly on-shore, clear skies, low-tide, just before sunset. (Thanks jimbocz and jimssi for the advice about conditions) I couldn't see the kite at all because of the sun, but I ended up being able to ride 2.5 miles because I had practiced. (I only looked at the kite the three times I fell off the board :o no serious injuries to speak of though, praise God) All of this was on a 3.1 m kite btw... the tensor hauls! I was rolling way faster than cyclists. I had so much fun y'all! When I had finished riding my folks (who were actually visiting Daytona offered to give me a ride back... my first down-winder! I really appreciate all the information and help that is available on this forum! I've gotta say just one thing though, whoever said you couldn't jump or ride with a 3.1... you definitely can! (at your own risk I suppose) Thanks all, I am definitely open for more advice, especially when it comes to landboarding. I am currently having some trouble working my way back upwind... :puzzled:

It sounds as if you've gotten bitten by the kite bug something fierce. Welcome to the addiction.

I don't believe anybody ever really meant to say that you couldn't jump with a small kite like the 3.1 Tensor. Far from it. This issue isn't jumping.... it's landing. Regretfully, sooner than later your 3.1 jumps will likely end in a wreck-your-whole-day moment. What you are missing with such a small kite for jumping is the float and relatively slow movement of larger kites. At some point you'll be in the air under your Tensor, something tiny will happen and your kite will move out of its, err, "supportive" position and you'll drop like a stone.

What am I saying? Your very username tells me you have nothing too fear. :evil:

Just wait till you get to step on the beach with the rest of us on Jekyll. Your mind will be blown. My first time going to JIBE basically turned me from a novice into near expert level buggy rider in one short week. I can do pretty much any type of turn or ride in and around obstacles in any direction, no matter where the wind is coming from at this point. Such a great place to practice is so rewarding compared to most people's landlocked home efforts to get flight time in.