Looking for this high wind session saver

- must have n+1 kites -

The 4m is one I owned but never actually rode under. I had the 6m and for UT snow I didn't end up finding conditions where that was too much kite for skiing. I think the 4m would take you up to and including brown-out conditions. Whupp!

Brown out. Been there, seen that.
On the playa I would want to be in a landsailer but on
a steady wind on the beach, I need something smaller
than my 6m in my quiver.
As Eric puts it, I recently slashed my inventory . . . .

Alternatively, the Peak4 even comes as small as 3m with a 5th line schruncher.
Anybody ever try one?

Quote: Originally posted by Wind_dog

Brown out. Been there, seen that. On the playa I would want to be in a landsailer but on a steady wind on the beach, I need something smaller than my 6m in my quiver. As Eric puts it, I recently slashed my inventory . . . . Alternatively, the Peak4 even comes as small as 3m with a 5th line schruncher. Anybody ever try one?

Wow! I did not know until your post that the P4 now comes in a convenient gale-force 3m size. Just read their marketing copy on their website and was interested to see how much, err, crossover the P4 has with your beloved Shaman's with their passive wingtip Inflated baffling. I assume that takes the dreaded "Peak Flap" out of play. The 5th line option is sweet too, following the re-ride tradition. All my RaceStars have a similar (optional) system installed. And I like it as a way for landing the kite.

I loved how they noted that due to it being SS it was virtually indestructible. I think both of us have experience knowing that's not always true. They clearly have never touched a wing tip down on the playa going over 40 mph. That's like touching your kite down on a belt sander and watching a pretty puff of dust poof up behind your kite sort of the same color as your kite.

A 3m SS with a 4:1 AR; that's a nice combo. My 3m RS+ has a 6:1 AR. You need to get a 3m P4 and the two of us should be so fortunate as to go head to head on the beach or playa. "Two men enter; one man leaves!"

From what I understand, the 3m P4 was born from requests from foilers that wanted a high wind kite. Lots of requests for an even smaller one, but probably won't happen. I think the tolerances are so tight on smaller kites that it isn't worth it to them to make a 2m.

Quote: Originally posted by jeffnyc

From what I understand, the 3m P4 was born from requests from foilers that wanted a high wind kite. Lots of requests for an even smaller one, but probably won't happen. I think the tolerances are so tight on smaller kites that it isn't worth it to them to make a 2m.

On of the things I've noticed with small DP SS kites (4m P2, 3.5m LS2, and 3m RS+) is that you need to be careful not to take the kite through too much range of motion with the bar. A full throw of the bar really changes the AOA a lot and they can be difficult to control as a result.

What I've found to work well with these three kites is to launch the kite and before moving find the right length for the clam cleat line so that you almost (but not quite) stall the kite when you pull the bar all the way in, and then you slide the stopper balls down the sheet line until you find how much bar throw you can give without completely collapsing the kite. This will not be the full throw, but rather about 3/4 of it. That then is the range I'll fly the kite in. If I need to really depower the kite completely I just push the bar out hard against the stopper balls and force them to slide up the sheet line.

I don't like to roll fast with the stopper balls all the way up the sheet line in high winds with these tiny DPs. I've had them collapse in the air that way and then punch out again. This can be pretty nerve racking when you're going 40+ mph. Been there and it wasn't fun for me.

I can get you a 5m, if ok? Complete with bar and lines.
$800 AUD plus postage from Australia

Windstruck - good description of flying the small DP SS kites.
Without cells, I feel they deflate/inflate quicker than something like an Access.
The hybrid designs like Shaman and Peak4 are more forgiving,
but a 4m Access seems favored for forgiveness.
I've also heard that a small LEI works well for strong gusty winds, but I'm not ready to go there.

NKA - No thanks, I'm specifically looking for 4m or less.

Quote: Originally posted by Wind_dog

Windstruck - good description of flying the small DP SS kites. Without cells, I feel they deflate/inflate quicker than something like an Access. The hybrid designs like Shaman and Peak4 are more forgiving, but a 4m Access seems favored for forgiveness. I've also heard that a small LEI works well for strong gusty winds, but I'm not ready to go there. NKA - No thanks, I'm specifically looking for 4m or less.

I have found that the RS+ compared to the RS tends to be better behaved in the deflate/inflate department. The Primary (only?) difference between these kite lines is that the RS+ has semi flexible vertical spars spaced all along the lower 2/5 or so of the kite going down nearly to the trailing edge. Born also makes a 3.0m RS+ but the smallest RS is a 5.0m. You can get a 3.5m LS3 in roughly the same AR as the P4 (about 4:1). I've not flown the 3rd gen LongStars.

When I owned and flew the 6.0m Access I was always amazed by just how darn stable it was in the sky. All hell could be breaking loose wind wise and that inflatable queen sized camper mattress would just sit there in the sky and tug on the power lines. I remain a BIG fan of small Access kites!

simply curious - why hasn't the ozone pure kite been mentioned here? what is wrong with it in comparison to the access? there is a 4m for this model.
https://ozonekites.com/products/land-snow-kites/pure-v1/

Tom
Unlike the Access, there is no no re-ride on the Pure,
I don't have any trusted reviews of it's high wind behavior,
Less chance of finding a more affordable used kite that needs re-homing.

I have an ozone pure. it is a 3 line fb 4m kite. not depower. it has a megatron chicken loop. the kite looks nice in the sky but compared to my slingshot b4, also fb 3line 4m it does not generate even close to the same amount of power and does not go upwind as well in my buggy. the pure overlaps with my rage 2.5.

jason

sorry - checked link above and the pure I described above is not that one. it was sold as a beginner snow kite package including a flimsy harness.

jason

The NEW Pure is strictly an entry-level, learning kite and in the smaller size the factory wind range is NOT above 20kts. Which disqualifies it as a high wind option at least in comparison to the Access. The Access was intended to be a low lift backcountry kite in the beginning (thus the name) as well as an excellent entry-level kite. The 4m Access is almost impossible to beat in high winds IMO. As mentioned above, the only thing that comes close is smaller sized LEIs.

There's also Ozone's singleskin, Explore, comes in 4m. Tops out at ~30knots.

And Flysurfer Viron comes in 4m, said to be very user-friendly. Maybe too dozy/simple?

But if you can find any of these on sale or used, they should be considered.

Khaakon-

If I go SS again, it would be Shaman. Love em.

But my first choice for this quiver space is an Access 4m with re-ride based on reputation as a gust muncher.

The Viron2 4m is a contender, perhaps tamest, maybe too tame for most,
but maybe appropriate for my skill level and intended conditions.
Maybe better for Alvord desert than trying to beat upwind on the beach in sideshore wind with the tide in. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Will I ever get there?

Heck, maybe I'll get one of each just to compare. N+3

LONG LIVE N+3!!!!

I would go with Feyd & Windstrucks advice and kudos to N+3.

Sorry for beeing OT, but I just have to add for you, that my first 2 kites were P1 6m, and later P2 9m. Totally loved both kites, taught me all I know almost.