May we ask if the members of the PKF have any say in the rules of the PKF?

I am a member, recreational flyer, and I took a look at the rules. I certainly understand the no spamming, and not wanting to be swamped with excessive self promotion that PKF recently posted about. However, I am always on the lookout for a good kite at a good price. I also think that the kite dealers on the site have contributed a lot to the sport, and the site. I know that I have benefited greatly from the posting of a number of our members that are in the sport professionally.

What I am trying to say is... I have seen only a couple of things that I have found offensive, and those posts have not one time been from anyone that I know to be in the business of selling kites. Individual members postings I have occasionally found rude or distasteful (maybe three times since I joined), but I can deal with that. I think we have a great forum here... by far the best that I have come across. I am sure that some of this is due in large part to the moderators... but equally among our membership. I have seen in numerous threads a friendly disagreement (I have probably participated in one of those), but that will always happen in any group of people, anywhere, doing anything. We have all been civilized in my opinion, and hope that we all continue to act that way.

Maybe a sub-forum for the professionals? Maybe another solution (if PKF insists that we find one)? But to start limiting the postings of some of the sports die-hard supporters and forum contributors would, in my opinion, take away from the community that I know and love as "The Power Kite Forum".

Thanks.

I read the rules again, and am a little embarrassed about bumping my own for sale thread. I wish someone had reminded me of my infraction if they remembered it was a rule.

I didn't know about the bumping your own threads thing either. It doesn't seem like that big a deal as long as it isn't done excessively. Good to have the rule though.

I'm glad that the PKF is active in keeping the forum free of commercial posts. If they don't then the "pros" in the kite business who contribute regularly without self promoting are essentially penalized by their own good manners. The problem is that its tough to have and enforce these rules consistently without weeding out some "good apples" as well. Jellis's closeout sale post from a month or two ago is a good example. I appreciated that post and wouldn't have known about the great deals he had going without it. But if they allow that then they have to let everyone promote store sales and it could be easily abused by people looking to use forums as free advertising space. Its a narrow line to walk.

I appreciate all of the efforts on the part of the PKF admin to keep this site going! I don't know how you afford to keep this site up without advertisements but its fantastic and you do a great job.

(Speaking of which anyone with any complaints about this site should head over to racekites and browse for a second. They have added advertisements WITHIN the threads so that as you scroll down it goes "reply, reply, advertisement, reply, ad, reply, reply, ad". Its incredibly annoying. )

bumping your own individual kites should not be a problem, IMHO...

the dealers selling individual kites here, like powerzone and dakitez, I have no problem with at all, and I think that ongoing trade is good!

adding a professional / business for sale and promotion forum in the classifieds area would be a good way to go, and allow folks a place to flog their ripstop on PKF without running a foul of the rules.

It takes time to know who is who on this forum and in the kiting community, and I've barely got one rung on the bottom of a long long ladder as far as that goes. If I have doubts about somebody, I know who to PM/U2U.

And I'd like to second those who have said this is one of the most civilized forums on the net. Anybody who has participated in the whole WWW online community should find this place exceptional!

furbs

You folks(members) are my PKF! Power Kiting Family! And I would hate to change the way we do things here.But I also don't want it Commercialized either. JMHO

I completely understand, that this forum has rules that we all agree to when we sign up. Understood.

I also understand about the desire not to commercialise the forum.

However I must admit I was surprised recently to have a post removed for linking to another kiting forum ... (offering the chance to win kites).

What do other forum members think about this sort of kiting linking???

I also was unaware or forgot about rule 1.4 and rule 2.1 but will know better in the future.
7.1 and 7.2 answered my post above about members having any say in the rules.

***Personal Opinion Alert***

I think we need to remember that we are all guests here and that the owners of this forum are not really making any profit from all the endless work that is put into operating, moderating and also limiting/deleting spammers (like the hot girls, telephone deals, shoes, ringtones, etc...) and controlling the postings of some of its members (moving topics to correct areas, deleting duplicate posts, approving new members, sending e-mails, etc...)

I really think it is unfair to the owners of this forum who put out the money to keep this server on line, allocate disk space, donate their personal time, install updates, fix security threads, archive older posts and moderate a bunch of us high-strung no wind kite posters ---- all for FREE--- so business owners can leach off of their efforts and make money pushing their products, cluttering up posts, hijacking threads and getting free advertising for their businesses. I shamefully say that I am probably not immune to this myself.

As I understand it, the PKF was invented as a place for people to come together and discuss kiting or gain knowledge on how to kite. I think that is a wonderful thing that the PKF staff has done for our community. I have posted some sale items myself and I too am guilty of breaking some rules, but in my own feeble attempt at redemption I have posted deals that we were offering so that the PKF members could take advantage of them first before they were gone. I have always tried to refrain from pushing (pimping) our shop and products on this forum and have tried to focus more on just offering advice and help where needed. I do have a link to our shop in my signature for two reasons, one so that people can identify our shop and where I am from and the other to let people know that I am indeed with a shop and to take that into account when I do give advice. I have also let people know that we have certain items that they are specifically asking for.

I admire what the moderators have to go through on a daily basis for us to have this awesome playground...but in the end it is THEIR playground so they make the rules.

I do think that a "commercial" section of the forum would be a good idea. It may help eliminate the clutter you see in the normal posts and keep those posts back on topic and more true for advice, but in reality the rules and sections of the forum are up to the moderators and not something that should be put up for "vote" by us, the members/guests. A customer can't go into Taco Bell and try to force them to sell hamburgers just cuz thats what you think they should sell. I don't feel we have a say in what the rules of their forum are. We can of course, give our "suggestions" to the owners and if they to agree, the suggestions might be adopted.

Just my two cents.

I want to say that I am in no way associated with the owners/moderators of this forum nor do I have any authorization to speak on their behalf. These are just my personal opinions.

1st I want to thank PKF for this forum. The reasons are well described above. I don't know how you can do it but my life is better because you do !

I also want to thank the people who have commercial interests and yet pass out valuable knowledge for Karma. Most of the real valuable information I have gotten has come from you !

It is hard sometimes to find that balance between seing what is commercial and what is not and folks can slip up. I know I have made that mistake in the effort to help someone with a question. I broke the no linking to adds like Ebay rule do to ignorance ( I had only ever skimmed over the rules ) . When PKF had to moderate I was only sorry I had caused him the trouble. As suggested, I'm a guest !

I think that one of PKF's many strong points is it's reputation for being a place to find good deals on quality gear. I hope that this discusion won't stop shops or anyone from posting used gear and more important .......... FREE STUFF !!! :P

I was wondering today what I would do if I clicked on my shortcut to PKF and it was gone one day. I'd feel like a part of me was gone. It really is one of the nicest places on the net. We (myself included) might get testy sometimes but I won't attack personally, and it's been months since someone else was being nasty to a member and he left quietly shortly after getting called out for it. Personal attacks are common elsewhere on the net.

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange "archive older posts and moderate a bunch of us high-strung no wind kite poster" I do apologize for my post a couple days ago about not having any wind. I hope i didn't offend anyone. but i must say in my defense i am not high strung LOL

LOL - I think we are all guilty of complaining of the "No wind" situations that come along in our sport. But that is what makes this place so wonderful, being able to vent at times and realize that we are not alone in our woes.

BB - I wonder too what would happen if PKF disappeared. I can honestly say I'm alive and uninjured thanks to the tips and advice I've either gotten or read from this forum. It's by far the most active, most even keel, most good-natured forum out there and I'm happy to have it available.

Jellis's question would have more appropriately been asked in the Members Feedback section, but I'm glad it has given folks a chance to share their opinions on this matter. I also appreciate all the kind comments.

There have been NO changes to the forum rules, just a simple reminder that PKF is completely non-affiliated, unsponsored and does not support commercial advertisements - never has and never will.

The PKF wholeheartedly welcomes shop owners to share their knowledge of kiting. There are many here that use this forum to help others new to the sport. Most do it for karma and I think these are the ones our membership most appreciates.

Store owners may sell items in the For Sale section, however, this forum is not intended to be a free extension of their store. They should list items just like any other individual. Additionally, tasteful product announcements are allowed in the Kite Reviews forum whenever a shop owner cares to write us a product review. They also may submit their link to us for consideration on our links page.

Regarding rules: Our rules have been designed to help our membership moderate themselves. We are not a police state and our mods don't want to spend their lives pouring over every post looking for problems. We too enjoy reading and participating in this forum and are grateful when members help keep things real.

Thanks once again to all those who who participate on this forum. PKF has become an informative, welcoming community and it's you guys that make it great!

If it was not for this forum I would have been in the hospital months ago from buying the wrong kite and doing things the wrong way. I would like to thank the PKF guys for letting us all hang out here. I would also like to thank everyone that posts here for sharing their knowledge with this noob.


Thank You All,

Shannon

I think I'm responsible for about 20 new rules, via my postings. But I think it's funny how butt hurt some people get.

I imagine the rules change becuase "some" complain or have personal vendettas

....so as some people wilt away from pre-mature ageing caused by the pursuit of their personal vendettas, I hit the sauna and eat some galumpki...peace of mind and good karma helps me sleep

mean while, I'll be available to help while pkf entertains these "GRIPES" when really the posting are entertaining!

BTW: where is my "ozone yakuza: Land on US soil"???? wonder who complained and if that led to the "no commercial postings"

maybe some people get tired of reading a kite shops employee opinion who always feels he is in the right :puzzled:
maybe thats why we have new rules and posts get deleted.

Quote:

BTW: where is my "ozone yakuza: Land on US soil"???? wonder who complained and if that led to the "no commercial postings"

i can say honestly it wasnt me. i being a U-Turn rider ... posted how wonderful the Yak was after flying Dirtslide's 6.0m over the weekend.

lets get back to talking about kites - the rules apply to everyone - cool.