I am cross posting this from another forum. Sorry for the double post but I don't know which forums are active and I am really stoked to get an answer to my questions. Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

I live in central Montana and while I have been a long time windsport person I have only tried Kitesailing a few times. I was with my brother in Florida. He is an advanced intermediate kiter and when he came up here last year on vacation we tried some snow kiting in ID. We didn't have much luck on account of the weather but I definately developed some interest on account of the weather here and the opportunities. So....

1. What is the difference between kiting a foil kite and an inflatable? We used my brothers inflatables last year and they seemed to work fine but I am guessing the bladders are not going to take too many slams on a hard packed surface without bursting especially when it is cold out.

2. If you are going to ride a snow board do you go with an all mountain board that is a little more powder oriented or more of a park board? Do you ride your good board or do you buy a piece of crap that you can beat to death? How tough is snow kiting on your board?

3. Can you crossover your snow kiting equipment to kiteboarding? I still windsurf quite a bit but I have to drive long distances to get good conditions. I doubt I will stop windsurfing but I would like to be able to kite when the wind is less than 25kts. Plus it seems a lot more fuel efficient for me to load up the car with 2 or 3 kites, a bar or two and two kite boards than having to load up my trailer with all my windsurfing stuff. Right now each windsurfing trip costs me on the average of about $100.00 in gas on account of the trailer. Kiting would be a hell of a gas savings. Probably $25.00 a trip.

4. If I want crossover equipment what is my best bet on kite type? C kite, bow kite, ram air foil? etc....

5. I am going to be down in Puerto Rico working the end of September for a few weeks. I expect to be able to fit in some real lessons instead of the half assed stuff I have done in the past. So I am hoping to get back to Montana with some kite skills and safety knowledge. Does kitesurfing knowledge transfer pretty well to snowkiting or am I going to need some dedicated snow kiting lessons?

6. How much does altitude effect the kite size charts the manufacturers post? I know from windsurfing here in Montana that I easily sail a 6.2 metre sail when I would be sailing a 5.7 at sea level. I was curious if you up size your kite depending on the altitude you are flying at? I guess the higher you go it is likely the wind just gets stronger anyway so it is probably a mute point. I am guessing that for winds less than 20 kts or so you are looking at a 13.0 or a 11.0 kite? Does this sound correct based on a 200 lbs person?

Thanks
Tom

1) An inflatable is what you flew, and can be used on water, a foil kite is like a parachute, these can not be used on water.

2) I started on a board, and then tried skis out of curiosity, and i'll never touch my board again, but if you have your heart set on a board, you can use whatever you have, it's really not that hard on it.

3) If you use inflatable kites, yes you can crossover with them. And you go kiteboarding once, you're gonna be selling that trailer and gear for kite money :D

4) For crossover you will want a bow kite, they are the most popular kites for beginners, C-kites work too, but dont perform as well. If you are going to be using it on snow, MAKE SURE whatever you get has 5 lines. It's almost impossible to relaunch a 4 line kite, leading edge down, on snow.

5) If you are going down anywhere that teaches lessons, take advantage of them for sure. I would kill to kiteboard in Puerto Rico!!!

6) I fly in Colorado, at about 10,000' and yes, altitude plays with the kite size you will fly. I need to fly a kite 1-2m bigger at altitude than sea level. On snow you usually fly a smaller kite, less resistance.
10mph wind=15m
15mph wind=10m
20mph wind=8m
I don't really like to fly in anything over 20mph wind, it becomes too gusty, and the kite you are flying is too small to jump on. Those figures are for snow not water, water takes alot more power to get going.

Good luck, and happy flying,
NPW
i
c
k

Welcome to the forum Tom.

1) An open cell foil kite can be used on water (speleopower is the master) but it can become a sea anchor if you dump it into the drink. There are closed cell foils that float better. I have found the the most important factor is how easy/safe it is to land the kite on your own in any conditions. Closed cell fixed bridle foils are the hardest.

2) Board choice is the same for downhill and kiting - based on the snow cover and conditions you expect. If you expect rocks, use an old board.

3) You can crossover but generally need smaller kites for the same wind. Trouble is, once you have one kite you always think you need another so ......

5) Take the lessons for sure - you get much more info from a qualified instructor - safety, gear, kiting skills - and it applies anywhere.

Get out and enjoy the snow (the Rockies east of the Divide got their first coat last week )
Bill

Be sure to check www.montanakitesports.com, there is a forum on that site also which would give you some good local information. You should contact Joel at montana kite sports, his email address is on that home page. I'm sure you could get a lot of questions answered and maybe demo some gear.

Thank you for the responses, I have an email into montanakitesports.com. I imagine since it just started snowing this week they will probably get back to me soon.

I have been leaning toward the Best Waroo's. Simply on account that is what I have used before and I can get some quality info from my brother who flies them on water. Plus you just can't beat the price point and the 5 lines.

I appreciate the advice and I hope to be able to have more questions and contributions on this forum in the future. Thanks

It is my understanding that the Bullaroo is a better kite than the Waroo, what about the Yarga? They are having a SWEET deal right now.

I just don't know enough yet. I have heard that the C kites like the Yarga are not as good for beginners? I know my brother began kitesurfing on c kites and likes his bow kites better. Feels they are safer. But he is also more of a surfer/cruiser and I guess the C kites are oriented toward free style. The long and short is that I don't know enough to even not know what I don't know. My mind is open for the time being. I'll see what happens when I take lessons and hopefully get a chance to demo some kites this winter here in MT.

I have had the chance to go to the Montana Snowkite Rodeo a couple of times and suggest you mark it on your holiday calender now ! Goergetown and most all of Montana is DEPOWER COUNTRY !!!!! I fixed bridle will only win you speed races. I was very disapointed and alone flying fixed bridles in Montana ! You need that range and safety there !

I would suggest that the most used kites there were.
Ozone's with Lots of folks using the Instincts as well as open cell. Waroo / Bularoo's and P.L. arcs. Lei kites are more than 50% of the kites out there on the snow but not many C kites any more. That was just my observation. The people at Montana snowkite will be far more helpful in choosing. I'm pretty sure they give lessons ? Keith Kalio (R.I.P. :saint: ) did ! If so, that will be money well spent !

Blade:

Good call I am planning on the rodeo this year. If at all possible.

Tony from Montana snowkite got back to me the other day. Very much encouraged me to get in touch with them when the snow flies to meet and great. Maybe fly a demo kite. I still have almost zero kite experience so I will see how it goes after lessons and the trainer that my brother is sending me. I definately will buy local if they have some good crossover equipment or can get it. I prefer to support my habits locally when it is possible! I think everyone should. I used to work in a windsurfing shop doing sales and lessons for a few years so I know how tough it can be when your customers work you for info and then buy online.:moon:

Like all things in life it does appear that while the kites can crossover water/land it is a compromise one way or the other. I definately want to do both in 2009 so I am going to have to see how the learning goes and what kind of info I develop.
:puzzled:
Thanks
Tom

I have a sneaking suspicion you'll get on fabulously this winter! As long as you're comfortable on the skis/board you'll be rippin' in no time! I'd dare say that the crossover from board to kiteboard might be easier when you make the move to water. If I hadn't hit the wakeboards this summer I don't think I would have had half the success (which was limited) that I did when I hit the water this weekend.

I went the LEI route - almost got a good quiver and then sold them off in favor of the Peter Lynns and though I'd still like to try flying an LEI, will likely stick with the foils. That's for sure for now anyway. Just seems all around easier IMO.

As an aside, my brother in law had NEVER been on skis and had hardly flown much but when we got him out to the lake, pulled him behind the quad for about 15 minutes the next thing you know he was off kite skiing! And no, he's not an inherently sporty dude either! I'm not saying it's easy (is is and it isn't), just that it's doable. We're not freestylin' mind you......yet

Sounds like you are right on track

Get that trainer up and flying ! Check out www.kitesurfingschool.org and www.kitefilm.com ( downloads - trick of the week ) to get prepared.
Don't be afraid to ask questions on here !

Montana is a well established location. You are a lucky man ! I'm a Lucky man for having gone there and meeting Keith Kalio ! You can thank him for a lot of what has been done in your area :saint:

Just get working on that trainer and have some basic knowledge of how to be safe and figure out where to show up. If you have the desire, a kite in your hands ( + your ride near buy ) and the guts to go up and say hello almost any kiter will try and help you out, if they can ! I actually got my 1st real snowkite runs in at Georgetown using my 3m trainer. In 26mph winds !!!

Look at the New HQ Neo, Flysurfers and Peter Lynn arcs all as excellent crossovers. These are some very great kites. Just try and buy 06 or newer. That sort of applies to Lei's as well ?