I fully believe there should be a commercial posting area on this forum...call it "industry soapbox" if you will....

Its not a bad idea either. most forums have a commercial zone! and the shop owners and emplyees have day to day interactions with a ton of the forum members regardless of a commercial zone.

I HAVE PAID MY DUES, shops cost, time on the forum HELPING VIA THE GOOD GRACES OF ALL OUR HEARTS cost, and some of us are super passionate and that leads to a stronger kite community...

egos aside, I don't care if everyone post commercial posts. I understand there is a rule, but I don't know that the benefits of such a rule weigh more than allowing commercial postings...I'm not worried about the competition, I would hope having a commercial zone would benefit the guys that are in the start up mode!

I would discourage flaming posts and set a limit per day that a shop could post so that the quality of the post Exfluncticates quantity...and it'd help the posters trying to sell used gear against new gear..IE...sold a PL XR+ for $600 used only because new ones go for $889.00 this year...so customer made $50 over what he paid because his buyer was aware a shop offered them at $889.00

with that in mind, I don't know how to build a "POLL" so members could chime in...CAN SOMEONE DO THAT.... or is it neccissary...

This topic has me scratching my head a bit. I feel that a commercial area would be a good thing but also know that it would probably be used and abused well beyond that which it was designed for. As far as commercial postings right now....It is all very confusiong. I read through many of the posts, well, all that I can and I try to help out as much as possible, holding off trying to pimp my own commercial interest on the forum and only give advice where I feel it is needed and wanted. It's funny because I see on one thread where a post of mine was deleted because it was a commercial type post...but on the other hand it was a commercial post that was directly on topic to the starter and main inquiry of the thread.....but.... then you see another post which is a blatant commercial post that has nothing to do with the helping and promotion of the forum, where someone is retailing out their entire business stock of race kites and that post remains fully functional and runs over 3 pages.

I would have thought that my post which was giving the topic starter an option to purchase something he was asking about would be more tolerated than the blatant dumping of commercial product and using the members here to help move it out.

Anyways.....not my forum so I really don't have any say in the way it is moderated and will continue to try and abide by the rules. I feel this forum is a very valuable asset to the kiting community and would hate for it to turn into nothing more than a tool that shops use to dump their product onto.

So...the arguments are Would a commercial area of the forum be a benefit to the forum community. :
PRO:
I would say yes because it would give people a chance to see what is currently available and also give the forum members access to some of the great discounted deals that some shops may have at the time. I think it would also help minimize the bias input some shops put on other posts where they try and pimp one brand over the other just because they happen to sell that particular brand.

CON:
The area may turn into a battlefield between shop owners or may even change the face of this forum from a forum that has incredible amounts of knowledge for people without bias commercial input, into an forum that is basically a kite-oriented craigs list where the main importance of the forum is just to see what shop is dumping what product each week.

Would a commercial area mean that the mods would have to put in double duty to try and regulate what is put in there? I don't think the mods get any type of income at all from this forum so any time they put in would be donated, perhaps this would become to demanding on their time...not sure about that.

In either case, Eli should figure out that POLL thingie, its quite an embarrassment to have a fellow kiter as good as he is, knowing that he can't figure out how to create a poll......

I agree with AWOC that the current enforcement of commercial related posts seems inconsistent. I have no problem with commercial posts as long as they don't overwhelm the forum and as long as they aren't just pimping or spam. This forum seems to do a great job with self policing so I don't think that would be a problem. It doesn't seem fair to allow entire threads of closeouts or to allow some shop owners to continuously post "demo" products up for sale and then to delete a post that offered a great deal on MBS boards. Maybe the post was deleted because it wasn't started as a separate thread??? That's the only reason I can think of.

There are also lots of commercial posts by people on others behalf. Post after post praising certain forum members for being so great. Nothing wrong with answering a question like "is this a good seller?", but it seems like there are endless posts of people piling praise on their shop owning buddies.

To me an example of a good commercial post would be:

Topic: Where can I find some bearings for my xyz mountain board?

Commercial answer: You need xyz type of bearings. We've got those in stock if you need them.

A bad example would be:

Topic: Is a Flexifoil Rage a good starter kite?

Commercial answer: Flexi is way overpriced. The best deal you can get is my offer of an XYZ kite (link).

I don't think that we have a problem with any bad examples like this on the forum right now.

CHECK THIS, IT ISN'T SEEN UNLESS YOU CLICK THE TOOL BAR FOR THE INDUSTRY POSTS

it is a private site. that's the end of the story.

what entitlement is perceived, on this private site, that you can demand a commercial specific portal. or demand anything.

be grateful it is here. why contaminate it?

you could build your own forum site with all the flash you want.

the commercial connections are here already. i have made them with the available set up. anything more would throw this site into mediocrity. and i wouldn't return.

gratitude to the owners who give my voice a space and is not choked out by commerce machine's grind.

SHould I change my user name to KiteBuggySpeedShop instead of jellis.
or should I put a link to KiteBuggySpeedShop.com in my signature area?
When you have your pixals set to 1920 X 1200 it is only a half page. :wee:

this isn't a private site, and it should have a commercial ZONE

OH, THANKS FOR THE POSITIVE PHEEBACK PHREERIDER...

Hey I can be POSITIVE ...............:P

love you jon...hugs and kisses bro


I'd like bobs take on this,,,,I can see both sides...but what is his motivation behind prohibiting the commercial area?

Why not have a commercial forum? The short answer... we simply do not have the resources to manage it.

The expanded version... The PKF was created as a non-affiliated, noncommercial community site for kiters and newbies to share information. It was never meant to be a market place. Having witnessed the demise of groups like rec.kites, it was decided at the start that establishing PKF as a noncommercial resource was paramount for its success and survival. I believe the positive atmosphere that people appreciate here is a result of founding values like this.

Unfortunately, as awindofchange and kiteNH pointed out, keeping a lid on commercialism is difficult and the results are spotty. Why? Resources! It's just not always possible to pour over each and every thread every single day looking for infractions. Administration of this forum is something we do in our free time as volunteers after a long day at work. Sometimes we miss things.

Besides, PKF is not a police state. We developed a clear set of rules not to push people around but rather as a guide so that members could moderate themselves. This works in most cases, but sadly there will always be those who bend the rules to suit their needs. Though only a small minority, there are those who use the PKF as an extension of their store profiting while we foot the bill (PKF is privately owned and funded). This forum is not run for profit (though it costs a chunk of change) and no store owners contribute to its upkeep.

However, store owners have a tremendous amount of experience and their presence is of great value to our membership. PKF welcomes them with open arms - especially those who manage to post while respecting the forum rules. Kudos to those who help others purely out of love for the sport rather than profit or ego. These are the folks who lose out when others commercialize.

That in mind, I apologize to anyone who feels their posts where removed unjustly. It may have been the wording or something better suited for U2U. I apologize to those who follow the rules while others break them. In cases where commercial posts are not removed, it is not deliberate - we're just unaware of them.

So here's the bottom line on commercial posts:
PKF is completely non-affiliated, unsponsored and does not support commercial advertisements - never has and never will.
Store owners may sell items in the For Sale section, however, this forum is not intended to be a free extension of their store. They should list items just like any other individual - as a private party sale listing items with prices. Limited, tasteful product announcements are allowed in the Kite Reviews forum whenever a shop owner cares to write us a product review. They also may submit their link to us for consideration on our links page.

Thanks to all for the support and positive feedback!