Can get either V1 13 kite only for 275 or a compltete Phantom 15 for 400..thoughts? I weigh 200lbs..just asking about the performance and windrange..thanks

if you intend to take the kite on the water id say go for the venom but if you are land based it has to be the phanny.

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Originally posted by carltb if you intend to take the kite on the water id say go for the venom but if you are land based it has to be the phanny.

hey I just bought a 12m phantom that I was intending to use for water use. can you elaborate a bit on why it is not recommended for water use?

I heard rumor that the aspect ratio is high on them and the relaunch a bit trickier - can't say for sure....I've only had the Guerilla on the water and relaunch was easy (if you're patient - grab a line, hold it and wait for the wind to push the kite). Someone might want to verify that though. I did hear the same thing once and think that was the story.

you're right macboy. the phanny is high ar and the venom is medium ar. which means the phanny is a long and thin kite and the v a shorter fatter kite. when used on the water the v will lie flat and not get twisted whereas the phanny will get in an aweful mess!!
after saying all that, arcs are really hard to crash in the first place, but if you do manage to drop them, you will be alot safer with the v.
hope this helps
carl

oh yeah. the phantom and the scorpion where designed with land use in mind

hmm well I never go out further then I'm willing to swim anyway so it looks like I'll just have to really apply that rule when using the phantom.

thanks!

I've actually experienced something similar with the silverarrow in extreme light wind. when it is too light to reverse launch I have tried launching like a PL ARC and it has worked a couple times but usually ends in a tangled mess and a long swim. of course the silver arrow has a ton of bridle and more intakes which can make a bigger mess in a hurry. the guy I got the phantom from used it on the water and he said it is harder to water relaunch but it is possible with some patients.

v13 best of the deal great performing water kite , use it on land as well
out performed a bunch of bow kites on light 15mph up wind as they where failing to stay up wind and i just plowed right through the group. and quick for it power range.
easily 15-30mph maybe a little more on the top end for the water. and i am about 200 lbs.

The Phantom is going to have a higher wind range than the Venom because of the higher aspect ratio. It really performs when in stronger winds but will lack a bit in the super light stuff. Don't be afraid to take it out in the stronger winds (if your skills are up to it). It will perform like a dream!

The Venom will have better light wind performance and be smoother in the power delivery (Comes on very easy and predictable) where the Phantom will be a lot more direct in power delivery (Boost you major the instant you power up). The same goes for the landing, the Venom will glide better once in the air and have better hangtime. You will have to whip the Phantom around a lot more and redirects will need to be more accurate to get the same float. The Phantom will put you down a bit quicker until you learn to fly it more.

You will need to get a lot more aggressive in your flying/sheeting combo to get the performance out of the Phantom but it will reward you more once you figure out how to fly it. I tell most people to fly it like you're angry at it and it will come alive and be your best friend. The Venom is more of a park & ride type of kite with huge boosts and awesome hangtime. You don't have to work the Venom nearly as much but it too will reward you with the proper flying technique.

Both kites rock and once you learn how to get the most out of them you will probably never fly anything else. Give yourself a good couple weeks to learn the kites and you'll find power and performance that you never new was there.

Hope that helps.

YES
YES TO ALL

ONE OF THE THINGS I LOVE ABOUT THE PL's (V I)

IT BLOWING... SAND BLASTER BLOW...FILL THE 16 AND WHEN THE TIP STARTS REALLY POPPIN AND WHIPPIN' ON THE GROUND IT HAS BEEN THE SIGN TO FILL THE 13 AND FLY IT INSTEAD. WHEN THE 13 IS FILLED AND IT STARTS POPPIN' AND WHIPPIN' WHILE FILLED LAYING ON THE GROUND I NEARLY CHOKE ON THE HURRICANE OF BUTTER FLIES IN MY STOMACH. AND CAN'T GET IT IN AIR FAST ENOUGH. .....THEN WHAT SEEMED LIKE A 20 MIN. SESSION WAS REALLY 4HOURS.

WHAT BEAUTIFUL SWEET POWER THESE THING MAKE WITH THE WIND..THE HOLY GRAIL OF FREEDOM

You can relaunch the Phantoms or Scorps on the water. Not as easy... but it can be done. Then again, they are really hard to crash... If you know your going to wipe out, just turn the kite skyward and let go (it will be waiting up above for you when you come out of the water)

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Originally posted by Taper123 You can relaunch the Phantoms or Scorps on the water. Not as easy... but it can be done. Then again, they are really hard to crash... If you know your going to wipe out, just turn the kite skyward and let go (it will be waiting up above for you when you come out of the water)

I'm very excited to try this out for the first time!

my bar needs to hurry up and get here!

Again, give yourself plenty of time to really get use to the kite. When you first fly it you may have some difficulty getting the performance that the kite is capable of delivering just because of your previous flying styles. Once you start to dial in the kite to your liking and start figuring out how to work it, the power will start to come on and you will get much more out of the kite.

It usually takes about 5-6 really good sessions on the PL's to figure them out. Once you do you will become a much better pilot (skill wise) and you will be able to do more on all your kites as well....but you will probably just stick with the PL cuz they are so awesome.

(for water) Board selection is also a big thing with these kites. You need a good fast board. If your board is slow you will choke the kites capable power.

the phantoms need a little back line pressure to keep from inverting. if you need to relaunch, just pull in one of the front lines until hte kite flags on the water. this will usually clear out the bow tie. and...FLY IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!

got the kite and bar all rigged up last sunday and took it for a test flight. had some trouble figuring out the launch but after about 30mins I had the kite up in the air.

I was very impressed with the kites turning and the smoothness of the power. it also felt like it had very good depower and the auto-zenith feature was noticeable as well.

I'm going to have powerzone make me some new pig-tails for the phantom out of am-steel this weekend. it looks like one of them is a bit on the short side and it doesn't really look like spectre so I'm just going to have them both changed out.

on another note I notice that since the naish bar I bought is for an SLE kite it has a huge Depower throw on it. there is a stopper that I can use to shrink down this throw as much as I want but I just thought I'd ask since kitesurfer brought up the point that the phantoms like a little back line tension. do I need to worry about the kite inverting when I depower/crash and let go of the bar? currently if I let go of the bar the back lines go totally slack since there is so much room for bar travel. I installed the stopper after riding because I think its almost necessary for one handed riding but I wasn't sure how big of a deal it is for the steering lines to go slack on these.

also I should mention I ordered 4 one piece carbon stanchions from max gain systems, inc. and I am very impressed with there affordable price and fast shipping.

I DON'T THINK THEY ARE CARBON ? ITS LINEAR FIBER GLASS, THEY HAVE WOVEN TOO.

CARBON IS ELECTRO CONDUCTIVE! IT IS A CONSIDERATION

GOOD PRODUCT FOR THE $

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Originally posted by PHREERIDER I DON'T THINK THEY ARE CARBON ? ITS LINEAR FIBER GLASS, THEY HAVE WOVEN TOO. CARBON IS ELECTRO CONDUCTIVE! IT IS A CONSIDERATION GOOD PRODUCT FOR THE $

well I thought they were carbon. they are black but you're probably right it doesn't actually reference them anywhere on there site as carbon.

thanks for the heads up.

non the less I think they should hold up much better then the 3 piece ones