I am getting into the sport of land kiting and am still trying to figure out my first kite and would like some tips on what would be better to get handles or a bar some pros and cons would be great if you have any, also could you use a harness with handles if so how.

handles -- better feel, finer quality of control, wider range of control (can have a big difference between position of one hand and the other) no possibility of one-hand flying. can't do depower with handles as well.

bar -- not so good feel (varies from kite to kite and specific rig) but can fly one handed and work a depower set-up. you are limited by the length of your bar as far as how much steering input you can use. I know very little about bar set-ups, been a static handle flyer so far (read: pretty new to the sport myself)

you can fly handles with a harness, many folks do, just attach a line (usually called a strop) from the back of one power leader to the other so the handles are connected, and slip that line into whatever you use for a harness. you can still tilt the handles for your brake action, but the powers pull on your harness, taking the pull off your arms. you slide the handles back and forth to steer the kite, but are limited by the length of your strop, which is limited by the length of your arms. also allows a little one-handed flying.

other PKF folk will come on with more knowledge than me, ask a few more questions and they will fill you in on the details...

That's all the stuff I would've said but I'm a big fan on handles. I like the intimate feel of control over the kite the handles offer me with almost infinite combinations of handle positions. Especially in tight quarters, the handles are almost necessary to be able to throw the kite around and put it where you need it quickly. Poor wind conditions would dictate handles as well. They give you more options to keep the lines tight during a luff. The bar lends itself to longer runs where you aren't flinging the kite to and fro almost constantly. The bar also gives you several levels of built-in safety that most people don't have when they use a strop, because they don't use a quick release. It is ultimately a personal decision but I think you can learn the ways of the kite better with the handles and then move to the bar later as your experience and conditions allow.

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Originally posted by furbowski handles -- better feel, finer quality of control, wider range of control (can have a big difference between position of one hand and the other) no possibility of one-hand flying. can't do depower with handles as well. .

Not so much, respectfully. One handed flyiing on handles with a strop and harness is possible and common up until the time you really need brake input fom the missing hand. I'll fly one handed and reach for a water botlle or beer...

Others have flown de-power on handles. It's just .... weird, arguably immoral.

Some fixed bridle kites really want the brake inputs you get with handles. The Peter Lynn Reactor and HQ Crossfire come to mind. You could fly them on a bar but they would have to be tuned oh-so-right for a given wind range. The Reactor actually perks up a bit when you tap the brakes and the Crossfire needs them to keep back from overlfying the window in ceratin conditions.

On a big kite in liight air it is can be difficult without handles to manage brake inputs for effective turns.

why cant you fly handles with depower...instead of having a bar you could us those flexifoil handles that wrap around your hand...it might feel a little weird but ive been considering trying to make this work...the two lines hook in to your harness and the other two go to your hands... you would get depower with the steering ability of handles/fixed bridle.

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Originally posted by piku303 why cant you fly handles with depower...instead of having a bar you could us those flexifoil handles that wrap around your hand...it might feel a little weird but ive been considering trying to make this work...the two lines hook in to your harness and the other two go to your hands... you would get depower with the steering ability of handles/fixed bridle.

Please don't try this. Depowers work on a bar, for a reason. If you were to have multiple strops hooked into a harness, you would not only make flying extremely difficult, but you would be putting yourself in quite a bit of danger. Imagine trying to get out of that situation overpowered. Its hard enough sometimes getting out of one strop.

Depowers work on a bar better because you can change the pitch with a simple slide of the control bar. With this you can (sort of) bring the kite back into the window if it starts getting too far out to the edge. You can also speed up or slow down the kite, and use a trip strap to get the kite a certain amount of "fixed power" while flying.Depower kites are bigger, and designed to handle gusts a lot more fluidly than a fixed bridle. They are also more dangerous for the beginner (IMO) than fixed bridle kites. I say this because the kites are bigger by necessity, and bigger can lead to more bodily damage.

Fixed bridles are great for catching wind, and (IMO) fly best on handles. Highly maneuverable, and just feels right to me (maybe because I learned on handles).

There are those that fly depower kites on handles, but if you do this, you lose the range of depower that you would have on a bar.

Everyone hads their own opinions on handles/ bar. I like handles.

Whatever you do, do it safely.

Well said Dylan. De-powers start at 5-7 m on the small end, so the forces on the handles and your wrists would be great. Also you would not have the range of mothion needed, I think.

Handles for most land kiting. I use handles in the surf as well. I'm not a 100% professional kiteboarder and can't do every single trick out there so handles work great for me and have done so for many years.

One handed flying with handles is super super easy. Most of the time you don't need subtle brake input anyway.

Scott

REALLY I didnt know you could use handles in the surf what kind of kite do you use? Do you use a depower?

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Originally posted by piku303 why cant you fly handles with depower...instead of having a bar you could us those flexifoil handles that wrap around your hand...it might feel a little weird but ive been considering trying to make this work...the two lines hook in to your harness and the other two go to your hands... you would get depower with the steering ability of handles/fixed bridle.

interesting-
my FS Pulse2 12m manual states that the kite can be flown with handles but the steering adjustment should be set to it's softest setting. i don't recall any info/diagrams on how the conversion, to handles, should be made though.
*I can't imagine ever wanting to put handles on the kite though.
my brother and i buggied mostly with fixed bridals on handles all summer. at the very end of the season (because we had some open field to cover) we tried buggying with a strop for the first time. we really, really liked it. i liked buggying stropped better than buggying with depower. the harness takes all load and i still have more control of kite than with depower.
once i get comfortable on skiis i will roll out to a fixed bridal w/strop for a good try.
Paul

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Originally posted by revpaul Quote: Originally posted by piku303 why cant you fly handles with depower...instead of having a bar you could us those flexifoil handles that wrap around your hand...it might feel a little weird but ive been considering trying to make this work...the two lines hook in to your harness and the other two go to your hands... you would get depower with the steering ability of handles/fixed bridle. interesting- my FS Pulse2 12m manual states that the kite can be flown with handles but the steering adjustment should be set to it's softest setting. i don't recall any info/diagrams on how the conversion, to handles, should be made though. *I can't imagine ever wanting to put handles on the kite though. my brother and i buggied mostly with fixed bridals on handles all summer. at the very end of the season (because we had some open field to cover) we tried buggying with a strop for the first time. we really, really liked it. i for sure, liked buggying stropped better than buggying with depower. the harness takes all load and i still have more control of kite than with depower. i'm sure, as long as i have room, i'll use strop set up a lot more this year with buggy. once i get comfortable on skiis i will roll out to a fixed bridal w/strop for a good try. Paul

I use the kites in my signature line. Mostly Flexifoil Blades and Quadrifoil Competition X kites.

What made you think you can't use handles while flying on the water. I'm always curious. My guess is the tube kite flyers say you can't.
Scott

Not at all I just thought that you needed depower kites for use on water, learn something new everyday.:wow:

I do both - play on the snow and in the water.

Although I'm sure it can be done, it just would seem *easier* to stuff your feet into the board straps when you can simply "park" your kite overhead and control it one-handed while the other hand holds the board....

Deb

In my avatar I'm flying a Quadrifoil Competition X kite with handles and doing a heel side nose rail grab.

Before there was such as a thing as depower there was kitesurfing :tumble: Depower is just a gimmick that makes kitesurfing easier for the masses. Plus it can be a little safer if you don't pick your wind conditions to kitesurf wisely.

Scott

Speleo, you da man! I love handles,I think they give more of a "feel" for what your kite is doin.So when you fly and not watch the kite,You can tell exactly what it is doin. But ,just like speleo siggy shows ,you gotta have a really stable flyer to take it out on the water.:wee:
I always thought your avatar was a dude kiteboadin w/ a bar. That is a bad a$$ pic dude , I just added it to my kite pics. Hope you don't mind, but it is impressive. At least to me it is.

Piku, please do not try that. If your hands are in those loops, with a kite that big. You would never be able to pop QR in an emergency. Personal injury almost guaranteed , eventually.

wrist straps around hands + gust to infinity = another reason to stop all those crazy kiters

kite responsibly folks, not everyone thinks what we do is cool. :moon:

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Originally posted by speleopower In my avatar I'm flying a Quadrifoil Competition X kite with handles and doing a heel side nose rail grab.

:o:o:o:o:wow:

It looks like you're riding strapless also. Please tell me you are not riding strapless. The amount of skill that it must take to ride strapless, with a fixed bridle kite on handles, jump, and GRAB. I am in awe.

Sorry gonna have to burst some bubbles. There is straps on my boards. I don't like strapless.

Just grab your favorite kite and get on the water. It won't hurt anything and I've found evaporation actually works to dry things off :P
Scott

yeah I'm going to be depending on that power of evaporation when I get back to the wonky kong and get on the water... :Ange09:

the learning curve is going to be steeeeeeep tho!:o

not if you arc it...................

I'd love to arc it, but money is tight... I'm still looking, but not a lot of arcs RTF for $300 out there! Also I have lots of low winds to deal with there, and the low end on arcs seems to stand out as their flaw, yes the synergies are better....

been looking at 18m phantoms, tho, there are two going cheap on the dark side in the UK, I've thought about figuring out a way to pre-inflate them and the wind range chart has them on a very low end...

hijacked, eh? :frog:

but whatever I do will be barely one step up from the zero prestige days, homebuilt woody and all...

edit: wow, just saw a venom II 19m on ebay, $308 with 2 days to go and lots of folks watching it....

hijacked for sure.

The Blade 6.5 will do you good on the water. It has a pretty low end if you don't mind going down wind.

Scott

sorry for the jack---yep handles to learn for sure......from there personnel preference. I wonder how many use handles vs bar (depowers excluded).........................ahhhhhhh a poll.......................