Hello to the PKF
Long time reader first time poster
I looked for a long time for a good inflatable kite because after kitesurfing lessons i just couldn't help myself. So after a lengthy search i found a 14m Liquid Force Havoc Used less than 10 times for the right price. I found it on Kite Trader and had a good experiance in that i got exactly what was advertised:singing: i was stoked. I am not new to kitting so i immediatly noticed the kite was in exelent condition. there is not water near so i waited for light winds and went to fly my new addiction.:wee: every thing went well from set up to flight, but didn't last , the wind gave up:sniff: but i was excited a couple of days later i made a few more attempts in stronger winds but had trouble there was no manual with the kite. I experiance a kite that would not relaunch as designed nor would it stay at the edge of the wind window. upon finally getting it airborn it seemes to have no depower or steering . i know this is a long peice but plese bare with me. I rechecked the lines and sett up but could not find any thing wrong tried different notts and line combos felling i was in the wrong but it was set up right as far as i can tell it is an 2007 so i could not get a manual from liquid force. The center0 lines are attached to the front and the outside to the back, in flight the back lines are slack no mater how much i pull the bar in i have done every thing i can think of to lengthen the center lines but to no avail Please help

I'm definitely not one that is very knowledgable but I'm wondering did you try to shorten the brake lines? You sai dyou tried to lengthen the power lines but howabout shortening the brake lines?

:puzzled:it's an option but I assume I may be wrong but i think liquid force probably makes a product ready to fly and would like to think its me doing something wrong as oposed to an inferior product and i havent noticed any alterations to the settup wich leads me to belive it should work i am just to unfamilure with depower and bars to figure it out:puzzled:

I HAD AN LF 2007 ASSAULT II WHICH WAS THE FLATTER VERISON OF THE HAVCO HAD ABOUT 300HOURS ON IT.. TRULY PROBLEM FREE. SOME LINE BREAKS BUT NO KITE PROBLEM

BACK LINES ARE ALWAYS KINDA SLACK UP TIL ABOUT 25MPH.

KITE SHOULD FLY ON THE FRONT LINES. BACK LINES, FOR ME, WORK BEST SET CLOSEST TO THE KITE REDUCES THE SLACK SOMEWHAT.

KEEP THE BELOW BAR TRIM ALL THE WAY OUT THE BITTER END NOB FOR YOUR LEASH SHOULD SITTING ON TOP OF THE CHICKEN LOOP.

HAS TO BE HOOKED IN TO DEPOWER RIG

AND 12MPH MIN. LINE DRAG ADDS IN TO BACK LINE PRESSURE ...VISUAL SAG IS NORMAL

WITH YOUR HANDS GRAB EACH BACK LINE(PLEASE USE GLOVES) PULL IN TIL KITE BECOMES RESPONSIVE.

SHORTEN THE BACK RESPECTIVELY TO MATCH.





THESE ARE VERY POWERFUL KITES CAUTION IS ADVISED (SO THERE TOTALLY FUN)

:dunno: so let me clarify I was hooked in All three times and the below the bar trim was where you said it should be had plenty of wind 11 g2 17 and no controle unless i did as u said grabbing the lines to make the kite respond. so does this mean i need to shorten the back lines and or lengthen the front lines IE pig tails? i dont know if this info helps any but i couldn't relaunch or get the kite to stay at the edge of the wind window for self launching practice( wasn't allone had experianced helper) having thought about your response all day at work shortening the back would improve relaunch and stability Right?:dunno:

My thinking is shorten the back lines , also if possible ( required ) make the front lines just a bit longer as well ? You are looking for that sweet spot . Slack on the back with the bar out but response when pulled in.

Is the kite overflying the window? ( I expect ) Are you pulling the bar in gently as it hits the edge ? Does it have any effect?

Did you have the depower at strap 50 / 50, Powered or depowered ?

there may be pigtails missing on the front . i seem to remember ...all the way out on the trim, bar pulled in all the way, the back lines should be about 4-6inches longer pigtails equal on all .

but pulling in on the backlines , find the effective length change it then fine tune for good power and depower. all the way in on the bar properly powered up 15mph + should lift you up with ease.

very safe kite, lotta range, tremendous power, super easy to launch and land solo

Thankyou Bladerunner and Preerider I have spent hours at the local school grounds trying in and out with the trim strap but it only hints at working properly with it fully powered up I feel this is not proper that it should be more 50/50 and am not looking to tie knots just yet. only played with it at the edge of the window a little but from my kite surfing lessons when ever i crashed the kite (not my kite but same style) would stay put untill i pulled one of the back lines a little then would move to the edge of the window with only a little down input and then it would hang out untill i turned it up the window. so my first instinct is that something isn't write. I would say that the lines are backwards completly but they have opposit ends IE knot to loop But i will probably take another look

I don't know if I am ready to start changing line lenths

Maybe with some pigtails

where is the best place to get pig tails :ticking:

dacron cord , amsteel, boating/ sailing store

or hardware store look for paracord .

Yup, sounds like you want to make some extensions and try them on the front lines to me ?
Also sounds like you have it pretty together in your head. Go with the thinking you have ! It sounds logical all the way

If you have the strap totally open and the bar totaly in and still have mushy steering on the loose back lines they are too long for sure!

I wish it was this easy to trouble shoot my bridled foil's problems !!!

P.S. have you checked the actual line lengths relative to each other ? With the bar and powered ? Usually they should all be the same length ( but I'm not familiar with the Havoc ).

Thanks for all the help cold and raining hear but ancious to try improvement and make some measurments I need advice on tying pig tails i think they have to be exatly the same lenth does that matter

what are some good tips to end up with the same lengths:bigok:

Left and right lines should be the same length as each other.
If you don't have a kite stake you should get one ! A screwdriver is a handy second choice. Use it to peg the lines for measure. Use it to peg your safety in the future.

If there is a small difference in length you can make it up at the kites leader by tying a new knot a bit up on one side to match. Or if your bar has leaders coming off of it a better choice is to make up the difference at one of those knots.

If there is a big difference then you will need to cut and re-sleeve to match. If it's a new P.L. kite and the lines are that far off the dealer will no dout give you a new set.

As you saw even when being pretty safe you can get tossed aroundpretty easy. A helmet is a real important thing. I never fly without mine!

HAVE FUN !!!!

wouldn't be caught without my helmet i have allready seen its usfulness when kite skateboarding in the church parking lot w/ my little devil :wee:

Now that's good practice ! :wee:

Go the tutorial section at www.coastalwindsports.com for an example of the Larks head knot and a ton of other great info for getting started.

Quote:

Originally posted by Looking_Up wouldn't be caught without my helmet i have allready seen its usfulness when kite skateboarding in the church parking lot w/ my little devil :wee:

Just measured lines and they are all the same length and with the trim in different positions It all looks as if it is correct i think i will wait until i get to the lake to continue i don't wan't to chance tearing up my new toy before its true purpose is realized

so in conclusion on the water with at least 15mph winds ill give it another go:D

:bouncy: Thank you PHREERIDER I flew my kite once more yesterday with exelent results the winds were cooking (well for me) 17 g to 24 it was awsome the kite performed as it should have exept it over flew the window when i let all the way out so i had to keep it turning learned allot about this kite and got some good air ( i didn't fall on landing) I found that when the kite is low in the window and you want it to start climbing you have to let out on the bar not pull in after i thought about the way the sail catches the wind it made perfect sence but thanks to all for the advice i think that i will still add pigtails to the front lines to allow me to ride about half way in on the depower strap:wee::bigok: thanks again for all of the help this is a high performance kite and it just needed to be flown in its element