Ok, I've seen a glimpse of retail and used pricing of the Jojo RM+ in the larger sizes and I'm pretty wide eyed at how much they are. Can someone in the know help me grasp what you get for that kind of money? I don't mean this in a negative way. Maybe they are worth every penny, but I've never seen one much less flown one. Who would benefit from what these kites offer and how do they compare to kites that they would objectively be measured against? Are these race type kites? How do they like gusty and otherwise variable speed winds? Always trying to learn something.

I've got a Jojo RS 3.5.
Its an amazing beast. Has more power than my 5m Beamer in the same winds. However, in gusty wind, it can be quite the handful. It actually flipped my buggy and and dropped me on my head 15 feet from where my buggy was when a decent gust caught it. Scary kite.

I actually do not fly it much (havent flown it since the day it lofted me like that..) because of its power and the conditions I am normally flying in. I'm actually more comfortable flying my Outlaws.

Full on race kites. I have only appreciated the beauty of the large 14m and 16m beasts from the sidelines at sunset when Jim and Jon are cruising in their buggies in next to no wind.

Yes full on race kites. The difference in price is you usually get what you pay for, but not always. JoJo's are made by paraglider company not a kite only company meaning quality of craftsmanship is hands down. Like comparing a Bugatti Veyron with a chevy you can, but it's not the same. JoJo has the best quality out hands down IMHO. To compare cost look at the flysurfer I don't see too many people complaing about cost with those and they cost even more money than JoJo's and I would make a bet that a 14 or a 16 would show more buggy speed than a SA 19 in the same winds quite frankly it would walk away from it. As far as handle the gust I no of no other place in N.A. that has gusty conditions even remotely close to what we have in Oklahoma and I have been pushing the limits with JoJo's for years here with no problems. Now these are race kites and they are not for beginners or intermediate type flyers, but for the guys that truly no what they are doing with kites. Oh I almost forgot they will put that ear to ear grin on your face everytime from amazement at what they will do for you in next to no wind.
Hope this helps

Big John

Anyone could own one, you'd need to know when not to use it. If you end up with one, and you are in the NW I'd show you exactly how to use it.

Quote:

Originally posted by JoJo1 To compare cost look at the flysurfer I don't see too many people complaing about cost with those...... Big John

I posted the question because I don't quite appreciate the price point of the flysurfers at new retail either. Never flown one but, they would have to really be fantastic for me to justify 2+ times what other high quality kites cost. I'm still not saying the jojo or flysurfer isn't worth the money, its just that without trying one, I'm not convinced they would be worth it to me. I have an open mind about it though. Thanks for the insight.

JOJOs are very popular out here with the fixed bridle fliers. I have 4 but the ETs aren't really race kites. RM+ is great and while it can be flown in bumpy winds, I would not say that's an enjoyable experience. I have the ETs for my inland and gusty days and my higher A/R kites for when I'm at the beach.

The buggy guys are flying the RMs and going rather fast with them. I don't buggy but I've skied and boarded with the ETs and RM+. Personal best speed was 52 mph on skis with the 2.5 ET and that was done with a feeling of total control and smooth power delivery.

Money well spent for me but I got them second hand.

While I agree that both of these brands are leaders and worth the money I understand how you can wonder.

The Neo and Wave can sort of do what Flysurfers do at almost 1/2 the cost. Cooper and such can do the same with race kites.

I could argue that theses brands aren't a whole twice as good but sometimes it's not about the actual $$ .

Is a Bugati REALLY 10 times better than a chevy ??? It depends on how YOU feel about it ?

Once I get fully set up in my new Quiver of arcs, I should loan you my 7m Pulse ? Like you I couldn't bring myself to pay the " new " prices for Flysurfers. I still feel that a used ( 05 0r newer ) Flysurfer is WAY better than a new Neo or Wave so I bought used.

Price = R & D, Quality, Technology, Material, Manufacturing Factory, Advertising, Team Riders

you pay for what you get.

After a point, there is a kind of logarithmic logic to extra improvements in quality. You will pay an exponential amount more for those extra tiny attentions and over-engineered perfections (at least that's what hear from owners of Leicas, Glocks and Shimanos. :smug:.)

For me the JoJo RM+'s are worth the money. One of the biggest problems I have had with race kites is stability and as far as race kites are concerned, the RM+s have great stability and handling without giving up any speed.

They may not be the best kites for land boarding, but when sitting in the buggy, they are great. I do fly my ozones in gusty conditions or just for a change, but the JoJos are far more fun to fly. To compare my RM+'s with my Ozone Access kites, my 6M Access has just a little more power than my RM+3 and doesn't get me going much faster. My RM+4 is hands down faster than the 6M Access in any conditions.

BB interesting point, I think that that you get a better build quality to be sure and that will translate to a longer life. I bought quite a while ago a Beamer 3.5 I loved it, I then bought an ozone access and flew it all the time. I used both a lot. I still use the access quite a bit I have had to replace the speed system as I wore it out, otherwise the kite is in great shape, a pin hole or two but that is about it original lines are still good. The beamer is dead. The canopy is rotten basically, uv damage. I have broken 2 sets of lines snapped the leash and bar. I think the beamer is a great kite and a perfect start. I believe that the access is a better kite and has lasted longer and had much more use. I actually (being Scottish decent) track flight hours vs. cost. the beamer is stopped at 50 cents/hour or so. The Access is still trucking at the 20 cent mark. The Jojo falls into that category. It has a high purchase price but ends up being cheaper in the long run IF you need them.

I tend not to keep my kites very long since new models come out. My phantom probably will be an exception. Long life translates to retained value at trade in time for me so I still benefit from a well made kite not to mention the enhanced flight experience from using good stuff. I understand about the law of diminishing returns as well. That last 3% of performance probably doubles the price or more. (Think about computer processors) As the bleeding edge of technology pushes that upper limit skyward, there is both a minute increase in performance but also another increase in price. A year or two down the road some of that technology shows up for a third the price in other brands at lower price points.

I have a quest to understand as much about kites as I can. That's why I hang out here so much with you guys. I already have a line to try out a smaller jojo just to see what they are all about and to see if they are "too much car for me".

JoJo has not had to come out with new models at the rate that others have.
With other brands it seems you are having to trade often because a newer / better model is out.
Most people who buy JoJo's keep them. They don't have to chase the new improvement ?

Time for a Pass the JoJo ?

the prices are good, I just sent a group email to the possee I hope someone bites on the 14 and 12.

It's tough to find a kit like this with everything, pulley handles and lines with the kite for that price is a steal.

MONTY IF YOU ARE OUT THERE GET THE 12M AND WE'LL WORK ON THE SKILLS TO RIDE WITH IT AT THE BEACH LATER!

flysurfer or Pl kites have nothing on these JoJo's, if you compared the 14m JoJo to a comparable size of flysurfer or phanton you'd be looking at something in the 30m range to get the torque and speed of a JOJO foil, they are RM+s. I've had plenty of time on big kites, AND CAN'T WAIT FOR MY NEW 17M YAKUZA GT TO GET HERE!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by lad (at least that's what hear from owners of Leicas, Glocks and Shimanos. :smug:.)

Shimano, are you talking bike stuff? Don't you mean Campi?;<{)

Shimano, are you talking bike stuff? Don't you mean Campi?;<{)

Maybe that's it - of some other earlier French maker.

That "last 3% of performance probably doubles the price or more" concept was first introduced to me in my early teen years. It came from my my more extravagant friends who were early adopters of quality, 10-speed derailleur stuff.

Quote:

Originally posted by archkiter Full on race kites. I have only appreciated the beauty of the large 14m and 16m beasts from the sidelines at sunset when Jim and Jon are cruising in their buggies in next to no wind.

Calling them beasts is a understatement at the very least.
Last time it flew with Jim I broke out my 5m RM JOJO. Then this beast of a kite came buzzing by from the opposite direction. Made the wind turn 180 degrees around. Knocked everything out of the sky for miles around. The tower at PDX wanted to know what was landing at the gearhart airport. I heard that the airforce was sent in later to investigate a UFO sighting. They heard that it was red and white shaped vaguely like a wing of sorts. All we heard was Jim laughing as he speed on by. :wee:

I think one of Jellis's kite got shot near sunset.

That's what you get flying to close to the shooting range.