Being impressed with the 6m Access mk1, I am thinking about the 10m (or other) sizes.

But I've also read raves about the new Apex 2.

While it's generally agreed that the Apex 2 out-performs the Apex 1, the earlier Access/XCs are available at comparable or better used/close-out prices.

How do they stack up in performance/cost? (Stability is the chief concern, increased lift the least)

Also, does the bargain Apex 1 even compare with earliest Ozone offerings?

I guess the short version of my question is:

Is the new Apex 2 as stable, or better, than the later Access/XC models out there?

The bottom line is a minimal difference of $300:
- I can get the Apex 2 10m for under $700.
- I can get a new 10m Access mk1 for under $400.

I haven't seen enough used offerings of the later Access models to price them. Tho' it is agreed that they were all more stable (and had better upwind) than the mk1.

I was surprised reading here that someone traded in his Neo for an Apex 2. I would have thought an inflatable Neo would have more stability & control (not to mention lift, if desired).

I have an Apex II 7.5M that I bought from Dakitez three weekends ago. It is a great kite and perfect size for picking up the de-power technique inland on the sod farm. It has been gusty lately and the Apex does just fine. I have been using it with my PL ST buggy and it has not lifted me out, yet it can generate some solid side pull and can be used upwind easily. This afternoon I probably had the longest continuous run back and forth without stop. I definitely feel the buggy and flying skills are improving due to the stability of this kite. I have not had experience with the Access or ozone kites. The HQ products are just that, high quality. Also props for Dakitez for suggesting this kite!

Are you the one who turned down the Neo for the Apex? :smug:

What wind speeds are working out for you on the 7.5? I heard they have a good bottom end wind range too.

The big issue that I would have is that the Access I doesn't have a trim strap. I assume that you're 6m is like this. For me this would be a deal breaker except that I know you can buy kits to add a trim strap to the Mk1 Access. I'm just not sure how much they cost. Where on earth are you finding a new Mk1 Access? That kite must be an '06 or something. Looks like a pretty good price if its really new.

Reading reviews and comments on UK sites, some feel trim straps on the smaller ones, like the 6m, didn't add much - tho' a 10m could benefit.

Someone here posted a site where you can get a kitesurf cleat for like $20 - so it's no biggie either way. I would even consider being a complete heretic and just get the $18 HQ trim-strap for it. As long as there are no other Ozoners on the field to chase down and pummel me! (Maybe I'd just cover the HQ logo with my Ozone Keychain fob!)

The mk2s and XCs have the strap, more stability, but a bit more lift (and more cost, used or not!). It's a trade off. The price/performance of either generation of the Apex would be another complication in deciding (but dang, those Ozones sure LOOK NICE!)

There is/was a small cache of new, liquidated Access mk1s out there. Last I heard there was only left a 10m....

...and the (Mk1 only) DEPOWER 3m(!) - which popeyethewelder estimated the windrange as going from "30mph - MENTAL!"

(but was still found useful by someone at NABX)

I like having the trim strap on my 6m and even my 4m. In general I think that smaller depowers have a bit less range, but I really like being able to trim my kite while I'm on the go.

If you can pick up the 10m for $400 and add a trim strap for only $20-30 then I'd just go for it. At that price you'd be able to resell it easy without taking a hit.

Also, I have no experience with the Mk1 Access or the Apex, but I certainly don't fin my XC's to be lifty at all. Very very stable, but I've never felt a fear of lofting, even when flying fairly overpowered.