I'm okay, thanks. Just a mud-smear and wallet-hurt (repairs). Thank god I didn't f*** up those trees too much, not mine to do such a thing :P.
If I hadn't been a lightie (~70kg I guess), I would never have made that climb, I could almost reach the wingtip in the tree in the center of the cluster there. Had to cut the bridles as close to the foil as possible to get it loose enough. Then some real tugofwar on the bar, all the way at the end of the lines still connected on the right, and the kite came loose with not too much tree.

Quote: Originally posted by khaakon

I'm okay, thanks. Just a mud-smear and wallet-hurt (repairs). Thank god I didn't f*** up those trees too much, not mine :P. If I hadn't been a lightie (~70kg I guess), I would never have made that climb, almost could reach the wingtip in the tree in the center of the cluster there. Had cut the bridles as close to the foil as possible to get it loose enough. Then some real tugofwar.

AAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!! That is a horrifying sight. I am so sorry that happened to you. Agreed, the 9m Peak 2 is right in the sweet spot size-wize in the quiver. I suspect the re-bridling would cost a pretty penny. Ouch! Not much of a consolation, but should you need to get a new one, $999 gets you a true beauty nowadays. Blue still available, but check out the new optional color scheme:


[img][/img]


[img][/img]

MMM - Candy colours... [Homer Simpson voiceover]

I guess I can actually join this discussion now... Tee hee :D

Haha good!

So after doing lots of reading (thanks in a large part to the folks on this tread--I've been lurking for a while), it sounds like the Peak 2 would be a great first kite for me. I'm just trying to decide between the 9m and 12m, and I could use a little advice.

This will be my second season snowkiting, and I didn't have a ton of sessions last year, so I'm still somewhat of a beginner. We get a lot of light wind days where I live (often 3-6 knots), but there are enough days with higher winds, and sometimes gusts over 20 knots. I weight about 150-155 lbs. For most of the season, we have a steady cover of 6-12 inches of superfine powder.

I mostly have experience flying a borrowed Frenzy 11, and on light wind days it's a struggle to keep it up. I also tried flying it on a higher wind day (~20+ knots) and it had way too much power, but we were also on bare ice that day, so there's that to consider as well.

It seems like people are saying that the 9m is the best all-around of the Peak 2s, but a friend of mine who I go kiting with recommends getting the biggest kite possible so it will stay up in light wind days. So what's your experience? Will the 9m fly well enough in 3-6 knots? Will the 12 have too much power at around 15 knots? I know the recommended max is 18 knots for the 9m and 14 knots for the 12m, and I don't really want to exceed that, but you know how it goes.

I also realize that no single kite is ideal for everything, so I'll need to get at least a second kite at some point, but I've gotta start somewhere, right?

Quote: Originally posted by doubleohkevin

So after doing lots of reading (thanks in a large part to the folks on this tread--I've been lurking for a while), it sounds like the Peak 2 would be a great first kite for me. I'm just trying to decide between the 9m and 12m, and I could use a little advice. This will be my second season snowkiting, and I didn't have a ton of sessions last year, so I'm still somewhat of a beginner. We get a lot of light wind days where I live (often 3-6 knots), but there are enough days with higher winds, and sometimes gusts over 20 knots. I weight about 150-155 lbs. For most of the season, we have a steady cover of 6-12 inches of superfine powder. I mostly have experience flying a borrowed Frenzy 11, and on light wind days it's a struggle to keep it up. I also tried flying it on a higher wind day (~20+ knots) and it had way too much power, but we were also on bare ice that day, so there's that to consider as well. It seems like people are saying that the 9m is the best all-around of the Peak 2s, but a friend of mine who I go kiting with recommends getting the biggest kite possible so it will stay up in light wind days. So what's your experience? Will the 9m fly well enough in 3-6 knots? Will the 12 have too much power at around 15 knots? I know the recommended max is 18 knots for the 9m and 14 knots for the 12m, and I don't really want to exceed that, but you know how it goes. I also realize that no single kite is ideal for everything, so I'll need to get at least a second kite at some point, but I've gotta start somewhere, right?

Without a shred of bias I say... EXCELLENT CALL!

Where by chance do you live and at what altitude do you plan on Snowkiting?Remember, the higher in elevation you are the less stuff is in the air ("stuff" being a highly technical PhD term). If you were, err, as gravitationally challenged as I am (> 200 lbs) the decision would be easy IMHO, go for the 12m if your budget can handle it. Also, depending on where you live (US, ex-US) you can't go wrong picking up one of these beauties from Chris (fewd) at Hardwater.

My reasoning is a couple of fold. Living at altitude myself and generally Snowkiting at around 7-9K above sea level, the wind has less punch than down lower. You noted plenty of powder where you live so you are either very high up, very far North, or very far South (or some combination). Second, pushing through powder no matter how light takes some work and after it gets chewed up you are tracking back and forth through some thick junk. Couple that with the likelihood that you have some powder pigs strapped to your feet and that equals some decent sliding resistance that has to be overcome by kite power. Very different from flying along on skinny racing skis on Hardwater. Remember that with the Peak p2 line that you can pull in the trim line enabling you to throttle down the 12m to almost the same force generation as the 9m without too much sacrifice in performance.

Third, and you've already touched on this, you are already facing the fact that you will need more than one kite. If you go with the 12m then a natural second kite would be the 6m P2. With the 9m you won't have anywhere to go really in the line as the 9m isn't all that much different from the 6 or 12, and the 4m is really only for when it is howling out and you're too scared (sensible?) to launch anything bigger.

Finally, the 12m is super forgiving for learning on because everything happens in slow motion.

The one thing I'd do is upgrade the P2s with a strap across the brake lines. Chris sells those and I have one on all four of my peaks and use it every single session, either to reverse launch, to get the kite down in a hurry, or to hook it on something to keep the kite on the ground.

So.... Go BIG or go home! :D

Thanks for the advice, Windstruck! It sounds like the 12m is the way to go. I hadn't really considered the 6m P2 as my second kite, but that would make sense (assuming I like the 12m, which I fully expect to). I was thinking a Frenzy or maybe a larger Access, but now I'll have some considering to do when the time comes.

To answer your question, I live REALLY far north, in a town called Yellowknife in Canada. The elevation's less than 700 ft above sea level, so there's lots of "stuff" in the air (side note:I learned a new science word today!). The powder we have isn't like fluffy Rocky Mountain pow. It's cold, which makes it crust up quickly when it's packed down. But it's still cold powder, so it's not fast to move on.

Good advice on the brake lines. I'll have to get that done. I'm used to that brake strap on the Ozone kites I've used and it's a huge help.

Considering I'm in Canada, it probably makes more financial sense to order from a Canadian shop. I've found a few online, but any specific recommendations out there?

Heck you are north. I have a friend from Yellowknife and the two instructors I certified with are from there. I drool when I think of the touring potential of Great Slave Lake. Or all the other lakes there.

You got a lot of lakes. :D

Does Great Slave freeze over completely?

With the current exchange rate you are better off buying a Peak up there. Hard part, based on the calls and emails we get, is finding a dealer that carries the Peak. PBK perhaps?

Just looked up where you're from on Google Maps. Man, that is far North. Even more "stuff" in the air because you have moisture to deal with too. I'm still sticking with the 12m suggestion; that snow of yours will create a lot of resistance.

Good luck! I look forward to hearing about your winter adventures, starting next month, right? :D

6, 12 combo for sure. I've got peak 1 6,9 and the 9 only buys a mph or 2 on the low end. My 6m has me powered enough for decent traction in 12mph. I don't have a 12 but that's what I need from all accounts. 6m size will be a blast to fly. my 9m kind of flies like a big slow kite but lacks true low end and is not as fun to fly as the 6m in the sweet spot.

Alright, more confirmation on the 12m! I guess that removes all doubt.

Quote:

Does Great Slave freeze over completely? With the current exchange rate you are better off buying a Peak up there. Hard part, based on the calls and emails we get, is finding a dealer that carries the Peak. PBK perhaps?

Great Slave is frozen over for about half the year. Which isn't surprising. Average winter temperatures here range from -15 to -40C. I'm not brave enough to go out kiting at the colder end of that spectrum. As for touring, I've heard of people who have kited across the lake. I think it takes a couple of days.

PBK and Flysurfer.ca advertise that they have the P2s, so I can check them out. I did some searching last night for a Canadian dealer for brake crossovers and had no luck, so assuming you ship to Canada, I think I'll have to get that from you. But that's not an expensive item, so it won't be so bad, terrible exchange rate and all.

Quote:

Good luck! I look forward to hearing about your winter adventures, starting next month, right? :D

Haha, not far off. We usually get snow in October and the lakes start freezing over in November.

Quote: Originally posted by doubleohkevin

Alright, more confirmation on the 12m! I guess that removes all doubt. Quote: Does Great Slave freeze over completely? With the current exchange rate you are better off buying a Peak up there. Hard part, based on the calls and emails we get, is finding a dealer that carries the Peak. PBK perhaps? Great Slave is frozen over for about half the year. Which isn't surprising. Average winter temperatures here range from -15 to -40C. I'm not brave enough to go out kiting at the colder end of that spectrum. As for touring, I've heard of people who have kited across the lake. I think it takes a couple of days. PBK and Flysurfer.ca advertise that they have the P2s, so I can check them out. I did some searching last night for a Canadian dealer for brake crossovers and had no luck, so assuming you ship to Canada, I think I'll have to get that from you. But that's not an expensive item, so it won't be so bad, terrible exchange rate and all. Quote: Good luck! I look forward to hearing about your winter adventures, starting next month, right? :D Haha, not far off. We usually get snow in October and the lakes start freezing over in November.

Think I'm gonna move up by you......way too much summer here in Wisconsin:D

I thought the averages would be colder up there in the winter. I'm in southern Saskatchewan and according to the weather people our average winter temperatures are between -12 C and -25 C, but we usually see quite a few days that are -40 or damn close. I guess you guys just have to deal with it longer eh?

Just a reference point for all you southerners who aren't familiar with the conversions:
-40 C is the same as -40 Fahrenheit, in other words damn cold.

Yeah, we basically just have to deal with it longer. Most days from the end of December onward are in the -20s and -30s, and it will occasionally dip below -40. But sometimes we'll have glorious stretches above -20 when everyone rushes to take full advantage of the outdoors while we can.

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

I have a friend from Yellowknife and the two instructors I certified with are from there.

I forgot to ask if any of those folks still live here now. If so, there's a chance I could know some of them.

just bought Cheddarheads peak 2 12 meter. got it on Monday( top condition as advertised!) and as luck had it after work was 5-10 mph steady winds. such grunt! reminds me of sailing with the way it luffs during depower and turns. with the 5 meter extensions it took forever to cross the window with steady pull from beginning to end! such a truck like feeling, slow and steady. turns like a tank. just a static fly, but i can tell already shes going to come in handy this winter!
big flappy is her new name.

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP

...such a truck like feeling, slow and steady. turns like a tank

I agree !! got myself a 12m Peak2 2 weeks ago, flown it twice. Big parts of the wing fold in alot, but it still flies and unfolds if you handle it right. I think it needs quite a bit flying in to get in shape, and a little adjustment on the mixers - I'm just not sure if total alignment on ABCZ is the only righteous path (???) I haven't tried with line extensions - yet.

Don't you guys dare badmouth the 9m Peak2 :megan:
It's a 6m and 12m combined !! It's perfect on soo many normal-condition-days. If you will only have one Peak2 - it should be the mighty nine. If you can have two, 6 & 12 still have a good bit of overlap - and will give you a Peak for (almost) every condition.

It all also very much depends on your body weight, physical condition, your Need For Speed (pull), and your chosen discipline/surface.
Edit*: ..and the rest of your quiver.. (P2 12m is a worldclass lightwind kite for little $$)

Off topic; I now got a Buggy, just 2 days ago. Had a first trip with both the 6 & 12 in the air, driving along. The 12 sure moves stuff when the gusts/ wind corridors hit !! Got a used Libre RaceMax from Extremekites UK, had my best day evvahhh!!!

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP

big flappy is her new name.

It's a mean green machine :evil:

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP

but i can tell already shes going to come in handy this winter!

I am so much looking forward to winter too!! Not only for the Peaks - which I'm definitely getting better at handling, I certainly thinks my skills have improved somewhat, but theres still alot left to learn. I look forward to having all the big white fluff around, so I dare to really start flying my twinskins, the Speed foremost! Those Peaks just makes me feel so lovingly safe, you know !! (hate wearing protective gear, sry)

Quote: Originally posted by khaakon

Had a first trip with both the 6 & 12 in the air, driving along.

Not at the same time - no .. didn't mean to give anybody any funny ideas:P

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP

just bought Cheddarheads peak 2 12 meter. got it on Monday( top condition as advertised!) and as luck had it after work was 5-10 mph steady winds. such grunt! reminds me of sailing with the way it luffs during depower and turns. with the 5 meter extensions it took forever to cross the window with steady pull from beginning to end! such a truck like feeling, slow and steady. turns like a tank. just a static fly, but i can tell already shes going to come in handy this winter! big flappy is her new name.

Nicely played! My first Peak was a used 12m too, picked up from the Venerable's fewd' school handmedowns. I've flown it with extensions too and she becomes almost like a kite in super slo-mo. Mine is named Session Saver and I think you now know why!

Now that you've drunken the Peak Coolaid you need to start posting regularly on this Peak worship thread. :karate:

Quote: Originally posted by khaakon

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP   ...such a truck like feeling, slow and steady. turns like a tank I agree !! got myself a 12m Peak2 2 weeks ago, flown it twice. Big parts of the wing fold in alot, but it still flies and unfolds if you handle it right. I think it needs quite a bit flying in to get in shape, and a little adjustment on the mixers - I'm just not sure if total alignment on ABCZ is the only righteous path (???) I haven't tried with line extensions - yet. Don't you guys dare badmouth the 9m Peak2 :megan: It's a 6m and 12m combined !! It's perfect on soo many normal-condition-days. If you will only have one Peak2 - it should be the mighty nine. If you can have two, 6 & 12 still have a good bit of overlap - and will give you a Peak for (almost) every condition. It all also very much depends on your body weight, physical condition, your Need For Speed (pull), and your chosen discipline/surface. Edit*: ..and the rest of your quiver.. (P2 12m is a worldclass lightwind kite for little $$) Off topic; I now got a Buggy, just 2 days ago. Had a first trip with both the 6 & 12 in the air, driving along. The 12 sure moves stuff when the gusts/ wind corridors hit !! Got a used Libre RaceMax from Extremekites UK, had my best day evvahhh!!! Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP   big flappy is her new name. It's a mean green machine :evil: Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP   but i can tell already shes going to come in handy this winter! I am so much looking forward to winter too!! Not only for the Peaks - which I'm definitely getting better at handling, I certainly thinks my skills have improved somewhat, but theres still alot left to learn. I look forward to having all the big white fluff around, so I dare to really start flying my twinskins, the Speed foremost! Those Peaks just makes me fell so lovingly safe, you know !! (hate wearing protective gear, sry) Quote: Originally posted by khaakon   Had a first trip with both the 6 & 12 in the air, driving along. Not at the same time - no .. didn't mean to give anybody any funny ideas:P

Heja Norge!

Dreaded tip tuck. Have you tried adjusting brake line length under the foam rolls? I've had success with that. Try moving the larks heads up or down a knot. Avoiding tip tuck and shedding it once it happens is a skill that will likely naturally develop as you learn to fly better and better. My 9m is the most tip-tucky of the bunch.

You won't hear me bad mouthing the 9m! Not the 4m neither. Agreed that the 9m could be the call if you were absolutely certain that you were "one-and-done". Problem with that logic IMHO is that most folks love Peaks (wait for it.....) so I would lean towards getting the 6 or 12 first depending on all the various factors and then fill in the 9m later if you can and/or want too. The 4m then becomes the icing on the cake. Maybe the 9m is the icing? Again, depends on your conditions.

Earlier this year at IBX I flew exclusively Peak2s (well, almost). I kept trying to pull out my 9m, but it was so windy I kept going for the 6 and even 4 and had a blast with them. Each time I was really happy I went down in kite size. I had a superb hour flying on the playa on day 2 at least an hour before anybody else had anything in the air, much less scooting around in my buggy. Session Saver to the rescue!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

You won't hear me bad mouthing the 9m! Not the 4m neither. Agreed that the 9m could be the call if you were absolutely certain that you were "one-and-done". Problem with that logic IMHO is that most folks love Peaks (wait for it.....) so I would lean towards getting the 6 or 12 first depending on all the various factors and then fill in the 9m later if you can and/or want too. The 4m then becomes the icing on the cake. Maybe the 9m is the icing? Again, depends on your conditions.

I hear you brotha, and I was only joking about any badmouthing. The overlap between sizes of Peaks, is ginormeus - so by the time you have to switch up or down, you can skip a whole size. But each size has a optimum range for your needs, and you could argue starting with a 9, and then add up or down according to your needs. *Then you will build a quiver which will be so in tune with every wind for relatively little $. Think of the value if FS sold 6/9/12 with one bar and lines, or just KO? I fly my 6m on the large bar from the 9m...

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

My 9m is the most tip-tucky of the bunch.

Mine was really bad too, worse than the 6 atleast. * Became much better regards to that after adjusting the mixer & brake lines !!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Have you tried adjusting brake line length under the foam rolls?

Not yet, probably next time. Along with removing everything not needed on lines, those pesky flags goes first.

Quote: Originally posted by khaakon

those pesky flags goes first.

:puzzled::puzzled::puzzled:

Not sure what you mean Norskman.

Another little trick is to play with which end the brake lines come out of, effectively lengthening and shortening the bar that way too. I run my 12m and 9m on their stock longer bars with both going wide on the brake lines. For the 12m you have to or it would probably take about 30 seconds to turn it. For the 9m that little bit adds just that bit of welcome pep (much as you've done sizing up your 6m - nice!).

My 4m and 6m are narrow and wide, respectively on their stock shorter bars.

Agreed that selling the 6/9/12 combo with one bar/lineset would be a very interesting option. The 4m is a little beast for just "those days" and would probably always be a lone wolf. I suspect it sells much less than the other sizes just because of the rareness of "those days". When they come, it is a blast to fly. Crazy amount of DP, crazy! :P

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Not sure what you mean Norskman.

..little flags.. aha; Tags!! Not flags, then. I remove them with a scalpel or very sharp scissors, They can make the lines catch on each other.

* Edit, after below post:

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

the little buggers that say FRONT and the like

Yeah, those. I guess I should have said 'tabs' ...?

Aha! I assume then that these are the little buggers that say FRONT and the like? I liked those back in the very beginning of my DP flying days before I had really internalized how everything worked on a kite. Now that such things are second nature I don't even look at them anymore. You're right, they could be something to snag on.

Flags, tags, it's all good. I doubt I would have figured it out if you had said tags either, but that's on me, not on you!

I've found the 4m to be quite useful in our area. I use it where I would have used a 2.5m foil.
There's safety in a gust and the kite can be kept in the air in the lulls. It's nice and zippy and requires you to fly it somewhat actively.
The kite can enter a high speed stall kind of thing where it will drop back in the window and become very sensitive to turn inputs. The cure is to
ease off some of the power and let the kite run forward.
Totally agree that there is tremendous overlap in the wind ranges. Way before the 12m is in the upper comfort zone, the 6m is pulling just fine.
That said, there are times when the 9m might be the perfect ride.
Can there be too many kites ?

Quote: Originally posted by TEDWESLEY

I've found the 4m to be quite useful in our area. I use it where I would have used a 2.5m foil. There's safety in a gust and the kite can be kept in the air in the lulls. It's nice and zippy and requires you to fly it somewhat actively. The kite can enter a high speed stall kind of thing where it will drop back in the window and become very sensitive to turn inputs. The cure is to ease off some of the power and let the kite run forward. Totally agree that there is tremendous overlap in the wind ranges. Way before the 12m is in the upper comfort zone, the 6m is pulling just fine. That said, there are times when the 9m might be the perfect ride. Can there be too many kites ?

N+1 Ted. Nuff said!

Yours and my experience seem to completely overlap. I particularly like your description of the 4m's behavior as I've found the exact same to be true. The 4m really performed above and beyond expectations on the Ivanpah playa. That was a fun fly!

My quiver is purpose built, but if in some universe I needed to give up one kite to keep flying it would be the 9m P2. I love the kite, don't get me wrong, but the 12 and 6 cover the 9s range as noted.

Peaks forever!

having only recently gotten my peak, i discovered that unlike closed cell and open cell foils i can pile drive my peak nose first into the ground with no damage! first time i down looped it without enough altitude i cringed like i always do, but no BOOM, just a whisper as it piled on the ground!
anybody ever do it on purpose like an emergency stop?

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP

having only recently gotten my peak, i discovered that unlike closed cell and open cell foils i can pile drive my peak nose first into the ground with no damage! first time i down looped it without enough altitude i cringed like i always do, but no BOOM, just a whisper as it piled on the ground! anybody ever do it on purpose like an emergency stop?

Oh, hell yeah! Yet one more thing to love about Peaks (like there isn't enough without this piling on). :frog:

Hi Windstruck and other Peak fanatics,

I want one! The 12m that is.

But before I lash out, can I ask what sort of comparison can one make with the P2-12m against any other foil or even LEI kite?

The wind range of the P2-12m seems phenomenal and comparable with kites around 15 to 18m big! Would that be about right? I weigh 80kgs so I would have to stick to anything lower than 15knots to fly it?

Can't wait to get one seriously.

Quote: Originally posted by NorthernKitesAustralia

Hi Windstruck and other Peak fanatics, I want one! The 12m that is. But before I lash out, can I ask what sort of comparison can one make with the P2-12m against any other foil or even LEI kite? The wind range of the P2-12m seems phenomenal and comparable with kites around 15 to 18m big! Would that be about right? I weigh 80kgs so I would have to stick to anything lower than 15knots to fly it? Can't wait to get one seriously.

The 12m P2 is a sweet kite for an inland rider for those lighter more variable wind days. It is challenging for me to compare it to other kites. I used to own a 15m Ozone Summit and it seemed to pull somewhat similarly once the wind was on the stronger side in an otherwise light wind day. The key to the 12m IMHO is its ability to get aloft and stay aloft in very light wind, even if the wind is too light to pull you around at the moment. My 15m Summit fell out of the sky in those settings and I could only get it off the ground during stronger wind periods. If you are buggying that can be a pain in the seat meat.

As you will read about throughout this forum it is a good idea not to get too trapped into thinking about kite sizes in square meters as a means of comparing different sorts of kites. In comparison to a lot of kites out there, the Peaks fly a lot flatter than most. Thus, the "projected area" is relatively high. An extreme example of a low projected area is an Arc style kite (and I believe LEIs, but I've never flown one).

Lastly, the Peak-2s (as compared to 1s) have a clam cleat line for sheeting the kite in when the wind starts to exceed its range. This is a nice safety valve if you are under the kite when the wind gets too strong for comfort.

I'm a huge fan of the 12m Peak. It was my first DP kite and still my favorite.

Good luck! :karate: