I would like to Know the ns3 7 sqm bridle length

It s for longboard and sup use un low winds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSq2aF3j2SEI

I already know ns3 4 and 5,5 have 2 m long bridles
2 m is fantastic , thats paddle lengths
Nasawing 4 sqm has a 2,50 m bridle wich is a bit to long for mast use

Quote: Originally posted by alf

I would like to Know the ns3 7 sqm bridle length It s for longboard and sup use un low winds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSq2aF3j2SEI I already know ns3 4 and 5,5 have 2 m long bridles 2 m is fantastic , thats paddle lengths Nasawing 4 sqm has a 2,50 m bridle wich is a bit to long for mast use

I did not take any of my NS3s out of their bags (it's still dark out this AM at my house and they're fast asleep) but I can tell you that the bridles get proportionately longer as the NS3s get larger. The 12.5m NS3 bridles are really long. The key word here is "proportional". To the best I can tell, the different NS3s are just magnifications of each other, as if a Master Kite exists on Auto-CAD somewhere and the designer just shrinks or magnifies the whole thing as necessary for the different square meter requirements. I'm sure it's not that simple, but pretty close.

With that said I'd therefore think the 7m NS3 would have proportionately longer bridles than the 4 and 5.5m and therefore not work too well for your application. Is it possible to "choke up" the bridles and still have the kite fly reasonably well? I'd think you could get away with a bit up choking before the kite wouldn't fill properly.

If you're looking for a "finger in the air" guide, those figures are not to far away from an NPW, for a 7m2 NPW you'd be looking at @3m

Thanks. So it will be 4 or 5,5 sqm
Already happy with the nasa 4,1 when the wind picks up
I was cruising on the fin of my sup by 4 beaufort
I hop to do paddle relaunch but water is still cold here and i m not a winter waterman like Randy

Alf,

The bridle length is proportional to the square root of the area. My NS2 5.5 is about 2.1 M so a 7 would be about 2.5 M. There are 60 bridles on these kites, so the length varies. Interesting idea of using a stick to support the kite. BTW - I think the climate in Atlanta is quite a bit warmer than France.

Quote: Originally posted by Randy

Alf, The bridle length is proportional to the square root of the area. My NS2 5.5 is about 2.1 M so a 7 would be about 2.5 M. There are 60 bridles on these kites, so the length varies.

I LOVE this answer!

Square-root; that makes perfect sense. I'm not kidding around, it does make perfect sense. I love this forum.

:D Ah but which bridle length are we taking about the're all different. I take it your looking for the distance from the collection point to the kite.

Ian,

There are a lot bridles (60 of them) and some are cascade, while others are "classic" so measuring is a bit murky, but I used the top wing bridle which close to the longest, I believe. A 7 M NPW-5, would require bridles of almost 3M, a NPW-21 a bit shorter, and a NPW-9 of that size shorter still ~2.7,shortest of the conventional designs. However, the NS2 has a wider (rectangular) center panel than any of these kites - about 75% of the center panel length, so for the same area it uses even shorter bridles. The trade-off is more bridles to keep the shape right in the big center panel. I don't know how much the NS3 changed, but I recall reading the new model was even wider.

Cheers Randy, I surprised at the NS2 has even shorter bridles, obviously works for that, I just remember looking at the NASA figures and they showed that bridle x 1.25 longer have a better L/D ratio, where as going shorter or over the standard x 1.25 the L/D reduces, sorry if it's a thread hijack.

For mast use the bridle to consider is the one that goes to the nose 198 cm for ns3 4 m

2 m for ns3 5,5

I'm heading to Lake Ivanpah for IBX first thing Monday morning. Winds that day are forecasted to be in the mid-30s up to 40 mph. Yowsa.

When I was there last November there was a day with winds like that which left me on the sidelines. I really didn't want that happening again so I had Steffen make me a custom 1.5m NS3. Here's that beauty once again:


[img][/img]


I've got two line sets, one the standard 20m 3-line set with my adjustable width bar and the other a 7m 3-line set with trapeze loop and safety line installed:


[img][/img]


I've switched the lines around since this picture so the little nylon sleeves now go up towards the lines not down towards the bar (thanks Sean!)

I'm thinking my first attempt at buggying Monday will likely be with the 7m line setup. Yes, I am a little nervous but this is what I planned for so I'm just going to need to put my big-boy pants on and go for it!

I'll try and get some video of this little wasp in flight! :karate:

Should be fun Steve. If you actually have 40mph wind it should be fairly violent :evil: but fun . Obviously I haven't flown the 1.5 but have a pretty good understanding of what it will be like.

Word of advice, the 7m lines will not reduce your power by much and will decrease your reaction time. On the flip side, longer lines will give you longer reaction time but will have a longer power stroke which could be a disadvantage as well if a mistake is made. Either way it will still be fun :D

To really gain a reduction in power in big wind, you need to go to 2m lines. On 7m lines in huge wind there is still enough room for the kite to make a heck of a power stroke still.

Have fun, wish I could be there with you trying the same stuff.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Should be fun Steve. If you actually have 40mph wind it should be fairly violent :evil: but fun . Obviously I haven't flown the 1.5 but have a pretty good understanding of what it will be like. Word of advice, the 7m lines will not reduce your power by much and will decrease your reaction time. On the flip side, longer lines will give you longer reaction time but will have a longer power stroke which could be a disadvantage as well if a mistake is made. Either way it will still be fun :D To really gain a reduction in power in big wind, you need to go to 2m lines. On 7m lines in huge wind there is still enough room for the kite to make a heck of a power stroke still. Have fun, wish I could be there with you trying the same stuff.

I hear ya buddy! I may need to pack some Oops! I Crapped My Pants just to be sure. :o

http://www.hulu.com/watch/279577

I'm glad you mentioned reaction time as something to consider. I'm revising my idea and think I'll start with the 20m lines and buy myself a couple of microseconds.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

...I'm just going to need to put my big-boy pants on and go for it!

Or if you wear your "old guy" pants



You might be just fine

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck   ...I'm just going to need to put my big-boy pants on and go for it! Or if you wear your "old guy" pants You might be just fine

Exactly!

I may need to pack some Oops! I Crapped My Pants just to be sure. :o

http://www.hulu.com/watch/279577

Hi,

I see some mentions of NPW as opposed to foils? Advantages / disadvantages of each design, where do you buy the NPW's, and are they good value for money? Bear in mind I am a noob!

Cheers,

David

The Born Kite Nasa star 2/3 is a variation on the NPW wing. They stay up better in the lulls because they're light. They pull at slow speeds - very little sining of the kite needed. Nothing to bust/burst/break. Pack up ridiculously small. Super stable (at least the NS2 & NS3's are). Easiest kite to fly I've ever flown. Almost no lift - you can throw it up and behind you to slow down and you'd be unlucky to get lifted out of the bug. Relatively cheap. Easy to launch and land.

On the downside, there's a lot of side pull which makes them a little slow and a bit harder to get upwind.

I think they're some of the best value for money kites on the market. I get mine straight from Steffen Born in Germany.

Quote: Originally posted by dwalk

Hi, I see some mentions of NPW as opposed to foils? Advantages / disadvantages of each design, where do you buy the NPW's, and are they good value for money? Bear in mind I am a noob! Cheers, David

David,

You've already heard from the venerable John Holgate about all the pluses and minuses. In balance I think they are superb buggy engines, particularly if you are looking to do what is known as Park and Ride (placing the kite out at the edge of the wind window while rolling and just leaving it "parked" there as compared to moving it all over the place).

I'm not sure of Steffen's international distributor network but he doesn't have representation in the US so we too buy directly from him. John is in Australia (you're in NZ, right?).

Here is how to get hold of Steffen:

info@born-kite.de

http://www.born-kite.de/

Steffen is sort of a crazy guy (in a good way!). You should enjoy getting to know him. Payment on his website is via PayPal. Stick with the NS3s; avoid the LongStars. You will want to buy his three line bar and 20m line set in addition to his kites unless you have all sorts of your own rigging. He uses a 3-line set up for the NS3s, the central 3rd line being a safety and "depower" line of sorts. The center line when pulled a little bit scrunches up the nose of the kite making it fly less efficiently and with less pull, thus "depowering" it. If flown harnessed in then popping the safety on the chicken loop will flag the kite out on this middle line. As John said, very simple.

There is a long, long thread here on PKF called "General Born-Kite Discussion". Lots more information there! http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30721

I think Soliver only knew about those "Old guy pants" because he had to get some for his "excitement" pee over the upcoming JIBE event! By the way, Steve, that's a fine looking animal in your new avatar!

Quote: Originally posted by bobalooie57

By the way, Steve, that's a fine looking animal in your new avatar!

Ha! Yes, that is a fine looking beast. In my non-kiting life I work in biotech and this bull is relevant to some of my work. Its extra muscularity is due to a peculiar genetic mutation that results in abnormally large muscle growth. Stimulating accelerated muscle growth, while certainly open to abuse, has a whole host of potential important medical applications where undue muscle wasting has occurred or for any of the host of "dystrophies". Anyway, back to kiting! :D

Just got back from IBX late last night (OK, midnight) and I have a lot of great kite thoughts swimming through my mind today. One is that I really don't feel like flying my NS3s off of a bar anymore as effectively a two-line kite, but instead want to fly them off of handles 4-line style. A buddy there (John; I forget his PKF username) was a big fan of flying his kite goddess made NPWs off of a Z-bridle like set up.

Today I rigged up some PL handles with four BORN-Kite 20m lines with the little nylon foreskins on the ends. I was curious if I should be making proportionate length Z-bridles (shorter ones for smaller kite, longer ones for bigger kites) or all just one length since the amount of brake pull I can get will be the same all coming off the same set of handles. I'm thinking the latter (all z-bridles the same length irrespective of kite size).

I know some fellow NS2 or NS3 groupies must have tried variations of handle flying with these beauties. Any pointers would be richly appreciated! Also, any thoughts on how many of the lower bridle pairs should feed into the brake lines? I know I'll just have to experiment a bit, but would like to start at a reasonable postilion. For starters I was going to grab the lower three bridles for the brake lines and adjust up or down from there.

Thoughts?

I've had the 4m and the 2.5m on handles which seemed to work fine. I used about 6 - 8" pigtails for the power lines and brakes and then about 1/2 inch longer for the z bridle. I aimed for a bit of slack in the brakes when holding the handles in the normal position. I haven't tried it on the bigger sizes but I would imagine you may only need 2 sets of different sizes of pigtails....the same set may work with the lot - I'm not sure. The video of the 2.5m on handles is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2QWrsXTn-M

I used the bottom 2 rows for the brakes which seemed to work. Haven't had the NS3's on handles yet but I imagine the setup will be almost identical although I think there is an extra set of bridles on the bottom of the NS3.

If you want your NS to have the same flying characteristics on handles as on a bar then all 3 parts (actually 2 important parts) of z-bridle should have the same length and can be the same for all kite sizes. That is exactly what they are when supplied with kites. That is not how I use them but I am not going to repeat myself. I also changed brake line connections from the original - again I have already talked enough about that.

Of course what is important is the relative lengths of 2 parts connected to the power line. The 3-rd part is simply an extension of the brake line. It is not needed if you increase the brake line length accordingly to have the desired braking action. So what is really needed is V-bridle.

I reached out to Steffen over the weekend to purchase some Z-bridles and asked him about the fabled UltraStar. As per usual he keeps things close to the vest! His reply:

Hi Steve,

This year will appear a few interesting projects of BORN-KITE and I will inform you in time about.

We keep in touch!

Best greetings to Park City,
Steffen

For any better intel we better tie down John Holgate, though I suspect he doesn't know either or is sworn in a blood pact to absolute secrecy!

BTW, time for somebody else to be the risky first-plunger. I got burned on the LongStars. Come on guys, this is a TEAM EFFORT!

Just needing some education here in regards to handles. Other than some finesse, or flying right off the handles, what advantages are there for the buggy? Say 20m lines. It obviously doesn't respond like a foil when you pull in some brakes for a boost in power. Or does it? The Stars just start flying backwards correct? I was under the impression Stars are full power all the time except when the nose collapses via 3rd line.

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

Just needing some education here in regards to handles. Other than some finesse, or flying right off the handles, what advantages are there for the buggy? Say 20m lines. It obviously doesn't respond like a foil when you pull in some brakes for a boost in power. Or does it? The Stars just start flying backwards correct?

I can't answer the question of what will happen when applying the brakes to a z-bridles NASA Star when moving (haven't done it yet) I wanted to set up my smaller NS3s (1.5, 2.5, and 3.2m) as simple zippy flyers for static use such as when I go to the beach. Flying off of handles is just more interesting to me when going static and taking all of the force on my arms.

I think the main three ways I'm going to be traction kiting over the next year will be kite skating in the non-winter months, snow kiting in the winter and more occasionally buggying. Buggy for sure on Ivanpah but it is a seven hour drive so a little hard to do often. I just don't have too many good options around home for buggying. For Snowkiting and kite skating I vastly prefer the DP afforded by my Peaks and Ozones.

Hi Steve, its me John .
As to varying the size of your "Z" bridles or chokes [a straight connection between drive and brake rather than a "doglegged" connection] I would say in an ideal world one would change the length for wing size. The drive to brake distance should be scaled so that it is neither pinched nor allowed to be "bloated." For a given kite flying in the center of its intended wind window [volumetrically not locationally] there is a reasonably set distance between the drive -lines and the brake -lines. The intention in my usage of chokes is to restrain or choke the kite to that distance in the entire range of wind that you are flying the kite in so that it neither bloats outward [greater distance between brake and drive in flight] losing or detracting from the curvature along the cord of the kite nor constricted below the "ideal" cord curvature.
In theory I made cord sets of I think 20 cm, 30 cm, and 40 cm if I remember correctly but in practice I use the 30's for everything over 3m in size [because I cant find my long ones and there are other issues when flying FB over 8m].

As to your question 3shot I think that flying NPW with handles offer a lot more than "some" finesse. The Born Stars, in my opinion, take care of a lot of the details of flying the NASA wings so the flyer does not need to attend to them so it is a lot easier to "park and ride." On handles the NPW can/ has to/ needs to be maneuvered constantly so it can be placed anywhere in the the wind window at any moment and easily "backed" into the center of the window to regain power and by varying the brake tension the power of the wing can be set to the flyers comfort level.

Makes sense John. Thanks
I've haven't flown my Stars on handles. On the bar, they set deep in the window already. I just imagine that with brake tension on handles, it would fall even further back in the window for almost perpendicular side pull or even flying backwards.

Thanks for this excellent description. Much like we spoke about at IBX I am now keen to fly my NSWs off of four lines, raising the IQ of the kites if you will.