In a little email back and forth with Steffen he let me know that 8.5 and 10.0m NS4s are in beta testing. These big kites present subtle issues with
wind flow dynamics and are not simply scaled siblings of their smaller brethren. I've got a 2.5m NS4 on order and look forward to (hopefully) using
it in the buggy at IBX 2019. Whupp! :D
Thanks for clearing that up. If there's a new way to fly a Star on a bar I am interested.
Steve I noticed the Born kite NS4 didn't come with a price increase, I'm thinking he's at fair market value already. I guess I'll replace one of my
NS3's that needs it the most and see if the kite got better. Personally I've never had a bridle tangling problem however I would welcome the
durability of the higher quality lines.
Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, the American flag, and a PL buggy. US01
I did a 4 line bar setup with my NPW 21s. Haven't done it yet with an NStar, but this is how I would do it. First, I would break up the bridle lines
for flying with quad handles. Then I would attach the two middle lines to the power lines and two outer lines to the brakes. It would take some
tweaking to get it to the right brake setting, but I would go with something that is just a bit less brake than it takes for the NPW to fly backwards.
Pulling on the power lines a little will then kill a backstall (which is why I did it) or if you pull it a lot the nose will fold over and you then
quasi - depower the kite but it is not a very effective way to depower. Here is a video showing how it worked. I didn't feel like the steering was
as good as a 3 line bar or 4 line handles, but it was ok.
Another method for 4 line. Note - these setups assume you are using z-bridles - you really don't need to though it might be an advantage. One issue
is you need a method to kill the kite - pulling hard on the power line may not the best way to do that. With the NS kite you could just run a 5th
line to use Born's depower/kite killer. In mine I tied a line to the two brake lines, and if I needed to kill the kite, I could just grab that line
and let go of the bar.
Now that I have a few NS2's I ought to try this - but we are stuck in a pattern where rains all the time and there is no wind. I have a backlog of
kites I've built I need to fly......
Here is a picture of a NPW depower bridling setup Ian developed for an NPW 21. This is for a 5.0 meter. I don't see why it wouldn't work (with some
tweaking and effort) with a Nasa Star. But it might take some work to get it right.
thanks for your help randy
with my naswing 400 i dont know anymore how i hav done but it works i believe i hav transfered handles front lines to hook and handles brake
lines to bar brakes
it give some depower but i land the nasa when it s to strong ( 4 Beaufort
i never tried to release that would be better
i find i can steer the nasawing very well on depower bar , but this wing is old with repaired tangles wo became to short ..
i havent tried the born 2 lines and depower system maybe that s even better than a 4 lines depower bar
i wanted to buy a 9 sqm peak 3 for street kite use on land paths with the streetstar 6 i am underpowered in lows winds
maybe a big nasastar 4 would be cheaper and even more powerful
my nasa 400 is old with broken tangles and upwind is to weak , i am triyng to adapt the npw9 7,6 to streetstar ergo bar but i hav put to much tangles
at the front , so it dont fly well, i hav to redo
if i succed with the npw9 i won t have to buy wing cause it s very powerful in comparaison to standard nasawings, 7,6 is maybe like 10 sqm nasawing
or more
the new nasastar 4 is temptating with very good price/power ratio
thanks for your help randy
with my naswing 400 i dont know anymore how i hav done but it works i believe i hav transfered handles front lines to hook and handles brake
lines to bar brakes
it give some depower but i land the nasa when it s to strong ( 4 Beaufort
i never tried to release that would be better
i find i can steer the nasawing very well on depower bar , but this wing is old with repaired tangles wo became to short ..
i havent tried the born 2 lines and depower system maybe that s even better than a 4 lines depower bar
i wanted to buy a 9 sqm peak 3 for street kite use on land paths with the streetstar 6 i am underpowered in lows winds
maybe a big nasastar 4 would be cheaper and even more powerful
my nasa 400 is old with broken tangles and upwind is to weak , i am triyng to adapt the npw9 7,6 to streetstar ergo bar but i hav put to much tangles
at the front , so it dont fly well, i hav to redo
if i succed with the npw9 i won t have to buy wing cause it s very powerful in comparaison to standard nasawings, 7,6 is maybe like 10 sqm nasawing
or more
the new nasastar 4 is temptating with very good price/power ratio
Alf, it sounds as if you are thinking along good lines. I had a couple of StreetStars in their early days but didn't have a personal use for them so
didn't keep them. Not a whole lot of power per sq meter if I remember correctly. A 7m NasaStar would have loads more power than a 6m StreetStar and
easily as much as the 9m Peak you mentioned (all of which I've owned at the same time so I think I can speak to this).
I used to own a complete quiver of NS3s right up through the 12m size and it was my experience that there were limited practical uses (inland) for the
three largest sizes, viz., 8.5, 10.0, and 12m. That is a whole lot of FB sail to control in janky winds that can double in force pretty easily. You'd
only use such large kites on light wind days, but inland those light days can really bite you during "gusts" when you can become spectacularly
overpowered. Also, I'm not sure how much success you are going to have flying large (>7m) NasaStars on short/no lines. There will be tons of
stalling and backwards flying.
in light wind days a 1o nasatar would replace the 13 nasawing i now sail on fatbike wich has less rolling resistance than dirtsurfer so maybe
smaller is better , so 7 m ?
i was lucky with the nasa 400, i could always let the wing fall in gusts, that s the benefice of street kiting (no lines
gust are even more dangerous on dirtsurfer with windsurf sail the lead to brutal dirtsurfer change of direction wich on small paths is critical when
you already roll 30 kmh
I think one of the innovations I'd like to see is a website that reflects USD pricing, shipping, and some method of payment that doesn't require much
figuring to complete the transaction.
Maybe the US market isn't a big deal to Mr Born?
Americans like understanding the whole deal to the dollar before we commit to purchase.
Born let's us guess what the rate of exchange is, and figure out the Paypal commission and the other commission for exchange, then increase the
payment by the incremental method to get the amount to be received, per Borns invoice. Really a pain.
In matter of fact you can't just get a wild hair and make a quick decision buy pay and wait.
Drunk kite buying is out of the question, there goes 15% of the market right there!
I expect to need some NS4 kites, so how much is my investment? How about a quiver?
It can't just be me that occasionally loads up a shopping cart on some site or other, and then clicks over to adjust my purchase to what I'm willing
to afford after shipping and viewing the bottom line number.
This is the improvement and also the post I'd most like to be intercepted by German intelligence. Steve. :bisou:
Flying mostly single skins, with some orphans, the American flag, and a PL buggy. US01
I think one of the innovations I'd like to see is a website that reflects USD pricing, shipping, and some method of payment that doesn't require much
figuring to complete the transaction.
Maybe the US market isn't a big deal to Mr Born?
Americans like understanding the whole deal to the dollar before we commit to purchase.
Born let's us guess what the rate of exchange is, and figure out the Paypal commission and the other commission for exchange, then increase the
payment by the incremental method to get the amount to be received, per Borns invoice. Really a pain.
In matter of fact you can't just get a wild hair and make a quick decision buy pay and wait.
Drunk kite buying is out of the question, there goes 15% of the market right there!
I expect to need some NS4 kites, so how much is my investment? How about a quiver?
It can't just be me that occasionally loads up a shopping cart on some site or other, and then clicks over to adjust my purchase to what I'm willing
to afford after shipping and viewing the bottom line number.
This is the improvement and also the post I'd most like to be intercepted by German intelligence. Steve. :bisou:
I get where you are coming from and would concur that the Born website is fairly rudimentary, as is the back and forth for the final mystery price. I
have to assume that the sort of commercial web interfaces we more usually encounter in daily web commerce are a costly endeavor, both in creation and
upkeep. It may simply be beyond the scope of the current size of their company. Steffen is a German and is married to a wonderful (and IMO strikingly
beautiful) person by name of Kerstin. You have probably seen her name on emails working out pricing and shipping. The kites themselves are sewn back
in a part of Czechoslovakia where his grandparents are from. So, long and short, it would seem they are a husband and wife small business sort of
operation with a modest web presence. Can't speak to their selective interest in the kite markets of different world regions; what I suspect is they
are an equal opportunity selling effort and will accept payment and ship to whom ever finds them.
I absolutely LOVE this sort of spirit and try to encourage it with my pocketbook whenever practical. Please appreciate that this is one big reason I
appear to others to have drunken Born koolaid. For me they represent a winning combination of innovative products in our tiny little power kiting
world coupled with daring entrepreneurial spirit; just right for little old me.
I suspect "German Intelligence" as you put it will see this but I'll relay something to them via email just to be sure. Nobody wants to miss out on
drunken impulse buys!
I have almost commited to buying my LS2 a couple of time but did not trust myself. I would have commited by now if the site did not confuse me.
I think in my case the confusing website is too much for an Old Guy who is usually high. With changes happening fast. New bridles at Born, flysurfer ,
Gin and now SkyCountry's new entry all have me thinking I may be glad I am procrastinating.
I have almost commited to buying my LS2 a couple of time but did not trust myself. I would have commited by now if the site did not confuse me.
I think in my case the confusing website is too much for an Old Guy who is usually high. With changes happening fast. New bridles at Born, flysurfer ,
Gin and now SkyCountry's new entry all have me thinking I may be glad I am procrastinating.
I had never heard of Sky Kites but just looked them up. One of their kites is called Reflex. Here's what they say about it:
"Our newest race kite designed to replace the Relax model. Reflex is a high aspect ratio powerhouse for kite buggying, mountain boarding, snow kiting,
and other land-based activites. Flown on handles, the kite control is so responsive to user input that we decided we had to call it Reflex."
Sounds like code for "death by kite". :evil:
I would expect Steffen to come out with an LS3 sometime later in 2019 and it will have the improved BODAPRE bridle lines. Worth the wait K2.
I think one of the innovations I'd like to see is a website that reflects USD pricing, shipping, and some method of payment that doesn't require much
figuring to complete the transaction.
Maybe the US market isn't a big deal to Mr Born?
Americans like understanding the whole deal to the dollar before we commit to purchase.
Born let's us guess what the rate of exchange is, and figure out the Paypal commission and the other commission for exchange, then increase the
payment by the incremental method to get the amount to be received, per Borns invoice. Really a pain.
In matter of fact you can't just get a wild hair and make a quick decision buy pay and wait.
Drunk kite buying is out of the question, there goes 15% of the market right there!
I expect to need some NS4 kites, so how much is my investment? How about a quiver?
It can't just be me that occasionally loads up a shopping cart on some site or other, and then clicks over to adjust my purchase to what I'm willing
to afford after shipping and viewing the bottom line number.
This is the improvement and also the post I'd most like to be intercepted by German intelligence. Steve. :bisou:
It seems that with the introduction of the RS+ that Born-Kite has somewhat revamped their website. It now includes a subsection of shipping to give
folks some feel for the cost of transport. Not a leap to the sort of website you're discussing, but a step in the right direction IMO.
By my math it doesn't seem super complicated. The VAT is 19% which non-EU buyers are not required to pay. The currency conversion now is about 15%
and paypal is abour 4% so those items should cancel (though currency conversion can be move around and could be higher*). Add the cost of shipping
($38euro*1.15) = $44US for a package smaller than 10 pounds. That should cover any NPW and probably some of the other kites. So a rough guide would
be $44+the price of the kite in Euros. So $164 for a 2.5 M NS4 ($120euro). For an NPW the box it comes in may weigh more than the kite though.
I'd be interested in anyone can confirm this.
*The conversion rate can be a killer - when I bough my NS2 the rate was 40%.
By my math it doesn't seem super complicated. The VAT is 19% which non-EU buyers are not required to pay. The currency conversion now is about 15%
and paypal is abour 4% so those items should cancel (though currency conversion can be move around and could be higher*). Add the cost of shipping
($38euro*1.15) = $44US for a package smaller than 10 pounds. That should cover any NPW and probably some of the other kites. So a rough guide would
be $44+the price of the kite in Euros. So $164 for a 2.5 M NS4 ($120euro). For an NPW the box it comes in may weigh more than the kite though.
I'd be interested in anyone can confirm this.
*The conversion rate can be a killer - when I bough my NS2 the rate was 40%.
Randy, I think you have your thinking straight. The one thing I'd add would be that the 46 E for shipping gets you DHL Dtandard. I always do DHL
Premium. My "Up to 5 kg" 2.5m NS4 cost 54 E for shipping in this style.
Why Premium? You'll answer your own question once you choose Standard for the first and last time.
I love checking in once in a great while and seeing born-kite discussions at the top of "Kites, lines, and accessories"
Sean!!!! 'Bout time you showed up. Hope all is well and that smooth onshore-like winds continue to grace your day. :karate:
Ha! that's funny. I have been flying but it's something different and it also benefits my work. I've been flying a drone. It's really worked nicely
to see some otherwise hard to access roof areas. Not as fun as kiting, but I will have to make do for now.
Now I'm just thinking aloud here but - if you replaced the buggy wheels with ski blades is that still classified as snow kiting ???? :dunno:
Absolutely not! Don't think I haven't considered it. The critical distinction is that my buggy has an AQR installed to keep me from getting lofted.
Beyond just not having the bandwidth to put something together like that right now, I don't relish the idea of simply sitting in my buggy on a windy
winter day. Snowkiting is actually quite a bit of exercise and that keeps you warm and toasty.
That's pretty cool stuff, right up to the moment when the bolt broke. Didn't look as if he was hurt but it probably gave him quite the jerk. I've
seen variations of that design several times on youtube over the past few years. Clearly there would be zero off-the-shelf here. Sadly, I'm not a
machinist nor do I have ready access to the sort of equipment to pull off a DIY winter buggy project. Good thought though!
An idea I just had (I didn't say it was a good idea) would be to experiment with binding three ski blades to your buggy wheels. I've got Sysmic Rims
which pass through and one might be able to go through the bindings with webbing and lash the little skis securely to your buggy wheels. The ski tips
would probably dive into the snow since the wheels would be free to rotate so that idea probably is a non-starter.
Maybe just use your buggy as is, or perhaps with tires that provide more sideways traction. Hmmm - big foot tires? Or go the opposite way and try
bike tires? Or maybe get tire chains?
Maybe just use your buggy as is, or perhaps with tires that provide more sideways traction. Hmmm - big foot tires? Or go the opposite way and try
bike tires? Or maybe get tire chains?
So many possibilities, so little time. These videos all seem to focus on buggy riding on frozen lakes. I've seen skate blade type solutions too for
true hardwater. The deal where I live is deep powder snow, not hardpack. My UT license plate says Greatest Snow on Earth so it must be so! I think
the issue would be side hold and flotation in a setting like this. I know from when I used to snowkite in deep powder snow that even with powder
boards that were 119mm underfoot that I got a decent amount of side pull. I think that might be problematic in a buggy, but who knows? Stuff to
think about...
![[*]](images/perspective/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
