I find coming to this forum sort of like going home for the holidays. Not every one is going to get along. And Uncle Grumpy is always going to upset someone. But in the end every one is glad they came home. This is how I feel about it. We are all into this rediculusly expensive life style (I almost wrote hoby) because of more than just how flying makes us feel. It's the fellowship of the understanding we all have for the sport.
I got into kiting after a severe brain trauma. two years in hospitals and rehab. My parents wanted me outdoors so they baught me a simple Gala kite and took me to the shore and put the kite in my hand. 10 years later I'm still hooked.
Lets all help each other with a kite rather than fuss about it. Ok thats my stand on it. I'll put away the soap box now!
Dave.

I'm not impulsive ... I just neeeeeeed that kite

Dave - can we quote you on that? "I like kites cos I'm brain damaged"

If the shoe (or in this case the hat) fits wear it!
Dave.

Quote:

Originally posted by B-Roc I must not read or pay attention to enough of the threads as I haven't really noticed any change or negative vibe at all. I still find this forum to be one of the most friendly and enjoyable kiting forums around. So what if PKF, like every other family has a crazy uncle and dysfunctional in-law.

Could you save me a seat, because I think I am on the same bus as you.

It took me 2 days to figure out what prompted this thread.

Out of a barrel of kite-related forums, PKF probably ranks in the top 3 for civility... yeah there are exceptions and the surcharge for rose tinting the prescription is just way too spendy.

Relatively new, and I generally find it easy to figure out who is a retailer or has vested interests. In the exception cases, it generally doesn't matter to me, as there are too many other factors that will come into play before any money passes over the counter.

I think there is a large difference between promoting your store and talking up a product/product line that several other retailers on the forum and elwhere carry. I am even OK with mild cases of the former (like someone giving a heads up on closeouts, demos, or used items).

On the Signal to Noise spectrum, there are definitely other forums where you spend a whole lot more time weeding through crap before you find anything useful.

The concern about new visitors being able to identify retailers is appreciated, but I think a little dose of "caveat emptor" would go along way.

Not particularly directed at anyone, but if we're tallying neophyte impressions, thought I would throw mine into the ring.

ATB,
Sam

I didn't read all of this long thread, but it seems that the issue that the original poster had was with commercial type posts on the forum. I have a really simple simple solution to make sure that there is no question regarding bias. And I think that most of the members who are in the biz already do something along these lines.....

Shop owners, distributors, and team riders, etc should list their company name and the brands that they are affiliated with. That way everything is right out there in the open, on every post and there is no confusion.

Man I love this forum. :roll:

Hey Sailors,
OK.
Sellers should identify themselves as such on the forum.
Who's to say?
I am a retailer but I don't use the forum to sell.
I figure that's what my web site is for.
I don't sell on the field or the playa either.
But I should label myself on the forum regardless?

Besides, with garage and van dealers coming and going out there, why wouldn't we want to identify those with legitimate brick & mortar stores and an established web presence?
Where do we draw the line?
Who makes those decisions?

Self-regulation allows us to live up to certain ideals.
We're still a small group and can make this work.
More rules and regulations will encourage some to try to take advantage.
Is that the direction we seek?

You know I'm making this up as I go along?


Safen Up! Buggy On!

"Often wrong... Never in doubt"

the coreylama

i think if you going to be part of this community you should be as a whole. if you're in the kite business let it be known in your signature. At the same time also take part in asking questions and helping others out than Pimping One's Product how good it is.

i've seen a member just post in the For Sale Section, all he/she is trying to do is sell on the forum. however saying that, its easily spotted and one can look away.

+1 for Lama

Corey, nothing wrong with putting your shop in your sig; it is a good resource that might help people.

I took my URL out of my sig for a while when there was some concern expressed about commercialism on the forum, and put it back in only when PKF reminded me that it was totally OK.

Not long after BeamerBob became a store rider for CWS, we both arrived at the conclusion that this should be in his sig in order maintain transparency, and I see other shop / team riders doing the same. Good.

I think most shop owners are careful about posting specific products for sale only when it answers a member's specific question "does anyone know where I can get....?", or is otherwise germane to a particular post or current topic of genuine interest (**newsworthy).

I will post items for sale unsolicited only when they are used demos, since I think someone might benefit and the sale is of no or limited commercial value to me. The back-handed benefit I do derive is the space in the trailer and in the budget for a new model so that I can stay current with industry offerings and answer questions. If anyone thinks this is out of line with the spirit of the forum, please tell me here or in a private e-mail.

I'm glad this topic comes up every once in while, as it seems to help keep the place comfortable, and I hope this time that any worries are addressed satisfactorily. Time and democratic opinion seems to take care of the occasional troll or questionable vendor, and sometimes there is some entertainment value there. I agree that this is one of the better forums out there and would hat to see people driven away, as that is always another resource lost to the community.

Quote:

I will post items for sale unsolicited only when they are used demos, since I think someone might benefit and the sale is of no or limited commercial value to me. The back-handed benefit I do derive is the space in the trailer and in the budget for a new model so that I can stay current with industry offerings and answer questions. If anyone thinks this is out of line with the spirit of the forum, please tell me here or in a private e-mail.

I think the breeze on the back of the neck test for me on this is this:
You (and all the PKF retailers) add to the shopping pool for folks that are just starting out (among others). The former are the ones most likely to go running for the hills from sticker shock, and the demos make for a nice transition/easing. I've bought demos from you and Dino that would be hard to tell from something off the manufacturer's warehouse shelf.

My price/whimper tolerance is building nicely... just not sure that is always a good thing

ATB,
Sam

The fact that the commercial side of things gets represented in sig lines is a good thing for me- if I need to look for something, it's easy to find. I also didn't know where to look when I first got into this.

Quote:

Originally posted by coreykite Self-regulation allows us to live up to certain ideals.

Yep! That's what Wall street said! How's that working out for everybody. :wee:

Hey Sailors,

Bison, that was uncalled for.
Are you simply mud-slinging for amusement?

Kiting is not comparable to Wall Street.
The kite business is nothing like the financial industry.

If you don't have something pertinent to contribute...
I would personally appreciate you keeping snide comments to yourself.

On to more meaningful stuff:
I have no issue with a store name being in a sig line.

I was referencing the previous idea that retailers MUST identify themselves as such.
I do when I am answering a specific question, but not as a common thing.

quote from angus's previous post:
>I'm glad this topic comes up every once in while, as it seems to help keep the place comfortable, and I hope this time that any worries are addressed satisfactorily. Time and democratic opinion seems to take care of the occasional troll or questionable vendor, and sometimes there is some entertainment value there. I agree that this is one of the better forums out there and would hate to see people driven away, as that is always another resource lost to the community.<

I consider this to be one of the more intelligent opinions I've read.
Particularly concernng the entertainment value.


Safen Up! Buggy On!

"Often wrong... Never in doubt"

the coreylama

corey corey corey you are not the godfather Fran is.

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis corey corey corey you are not the godfather Fran is.

I thought Chilese was :puzzled:

opps wrong forum :moon:

Quote:

Originally posted by b-roc I thought Chilese was :puzzled:

OK... that made me smile. John certainly does look the part in his black-on-black suit.

ATB,
Sam

Quote:

Originally posted by coreykite Bison, that was uncalled for. Are you simply mud-slinging for amusement? Kiting is not comparable to Wall Street. The kite business is nothing like the financial industry.

Actually , I was making fun of your "...Self-regulation..." statement. Total nonsense!!!

Quote:

I would personally appreciate you keeping snide comments to yourself.

Like you have done for how many years? I've heard more snide SH*T out of your mouth than any other buggy pilot. Yet every time someone calls you on it, you say you were only joking.

Get some thicker skin dude!