Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner Why am I all excited about getting an 18m Phanny when it was never even on my radar that I wanted one ? I went to work this morning feeling selfish. I'm sure my 1st true motive was to call Dibs simply to beat the feeding frenzy I KNEW would follow. I decided it just may have a spot if it TRULY will fly in 4mph winds. THIS SEEMS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE ??? :puzzled: So, I am picking up a kite that will get me out in 3m wind this weekend. Already have a trusty Rusty Blade that gets me going in 4 already, TWO 15m arcs that will take off at 8mph. I will win the low wind war YET !

This 18 sits in just about the same slot as your 10.8 but you would be in better shape if the wind picked up, to a point.

I actually thought I was done and then this happens. I thought I was in "upgrade only" mode from here on.

Quote:

Originally posted by ripsessionkites the 411 on F-Arc (thx Sinson for the email) http://www.peterlynnkites.com/news/0112news.htm

I like the reason why they did not call them P-Arc because of the reverse spelling implication.

This is very tempting. 19 Phantom would make a good Kitecat engine. What has more power and speed? The 19 Phantom or Synergy?

The Synergy or Charger would have more grunt for the boat. They also might be better in the boat if it has considerable drag because they would not go as far forward in the window. Action Jackson is the man to ask since he probably has experience with both kites and the boat.

Quote:

Originally posted by tridude 18m Phanny..............................theme song to Jeopardy playing in my head..........................:dunno::dunno: Rip, Are those the standard carbon sparz?

its all original packaging, so i would assume this would be the case.

Phanny 18m only comes in ONE COLOUR / COLOR : YELLOW

Maria and i are going through the u2u, and so for the first 9 will get this. you'll know by my reply.

Those that what an F-Arc, give me some notice, im sure Angus will offer you a wicked deal on spars. I have no prices on bags until night (NZ Timezone), so maybe buy a F-Arc and get a free bag. hint hint. 100+ units is a lot to move. hehehe.

things you can do with your F-Arc:

shop kite display ... i learned a wicked way to keep it inflated
sleeping bag
kite tent
send kite to "Kite Bags" and you could have a PL F-Arc sandbag or purse
turn it into a single line arc for kicks
have one just to say you have an arc in your quiver.

19 syn would be better for the boat!It turns quicker! The 18 phantom you really have to throw around! Both are great kites!....................aj

I sold my 18 phantom for $350 years ago and thought I did well. The phantom might be some elusive kite for some, but I never cared for it. It's gutless. For $400 you can find a used 19 syn and be way better off. It's sad to come to this site and see people talking about how great the old PL kites are like the phantom when if you put a little time into the charger, you'll never look back. It's like the PL kiters want them to make slow gutless kites forever. Now if PL makes a boat load of cash on the inflate design I guess you won't have to worry about arc improvements. They'll probably just stop making new designs if you guys don't buy them.

I made a tent out of an f-arc. I cuddle with my charger. My phantom I found no use for so sold it. All of this stuff are great collectors items, but I think it's safe to answer all quesstions about old kites as " newer ones are better." the consumer market wouldn't allow it any other way.

would an 18m phantom be a good kite for me? im around 130 pounds and i would use mainly for landboarding i liuve in newjersey (not on the coast) so not a ton of wind
everyone talked me out of a 10m venom because its too small


also what would be a fun arc kite to buy from here?

and could i purchase a pl kite bag? i want one for a school bag

Quote:

Originally posted by rudeboysaude It's sad to come to this site and see people talking about how great the old PL kites are like the phantom when if you put a little time into the charger, you'll never look back. It's like the PL kiters want them to make slow gutless kites forever. Now if PL makes a boat load of cash on the inflate design I guess you won't have to worry about arc improvements. They'll probably just stop making new designs if you guys don't buy them. I made a tent out of an f-arc. I cuddle with my charger. My phantom I found no use for so sold it. All of this stuff are great collectors items, but I think it's safe to answer all quesstions about old kites as " newer ones are better." the consumer market wouldn't allow it any other way.

May be better for what you do, but not for some of what I do. I've flown a 9m phantom and a 8m Synergy back to back in the buggy, 17-20mph winds at Elmers. Been in the buggy for 16 years now; phantom is the best buggy kite I've flown. Synergy needed constant attention to keep it flying straight ahead. Experience with my 6m Charger was similar, but worse. Sure it's fast, but it surges forward with ever gust, and I could never leave my eyes from it. Pain in the *ss to fly in the buggy, if your looking to cruse fast.

Not sure if you buggy, or have buggied at Elmers, but you don't just have wide open space. There are motor bike trails where the wind gets shifty and you have to keep your kite from falling into #@%$#!ly shrub. Alluvial fans with roads where you have to keep your speed up without getting stuck in deep dry sand. Parts of the dry lake have desert shrub that you can zip in and around, like cones on pavement, at high speed. We need a kite that will handle the gusts and not need constant attention when looking ahead for a pothole at 45mph.

We do Out-n-Back at NABX. Can't even imagine flying a kite like the charger in those conditions. Compared to a phantom, yikes, curse city.

We are not a problem for PL in terms of developing new kites. Give me a break. We are such a small market, I'm surprised they are even considering a phantom 2.

Before making generalizations about what we should look for in a PL arc, you should consider that speed of a kite isn't all there is.

Im kind of somewhere in the middle of what Steve and Aaron said.
With all of the earlier Arc designs I was never really a fan of the larger sizes, just too slow for my liking and the amount of work needed I was already flying some other kite type and getting way better bottom end.
I had the Phannies from 15 down and liked them a lot for buggying and winter - but we transitioned out of them with the new designs. Even the 18 Phantoms were sold off first and I don't think anyone here would look for one of those again unless it was a smoking deal from Ricardo's Kite clear outs.
But the split in appeal is definitely based on where I use them and the conditions. In the winter I like a fast kite so the newer kites are very appealing. On the water the stiffer shape of the Charger delivers better power and far better turning when the kite isn't twisting off.
But I did like the small Phantoms - especially in the buggy. Very user friendly, fast and forgiving using them on the dry lake. My Scorpion isn't too bad going fast but it does surge a little bit forward and back but not so much that I can't ride one handed.
Yes the 8 Synergy also bobbles a bit and seems some attention. The small Charger - wow, they need a ton of attention. i'm hoping it'll be different on skis in the winter where I don't mind whipping it around. I had a great time on the Phantoms but remember really windy days going as fast as I could with the 15 Phantom and thinking I should have been able to go faster in that wind so the big kites I can easily pass on the older styles.

Comfortable, reliable and pretty durable overall - for me they each have a specific use. The Scorpions have Ivanpah dust so they are desert kites, some have beach sand, some water/snow. So split decision and understand where you are each coming from.
(last point- I have yet to try a 19 Charger to see if that would change my mind on the larger sizes)

Oh My !!!! Phanny 18!!! Let me see what's in the mason jar in the back yard!!! Is it OK to buy ME a Christmas present? I'm certain my wife doest REALLY need more clothes, perfume, boots, fancy new years dinner, ---she'll understand.:saint:

If they came ready to fly I would jump on a phantom.
Chris if you get one I'll come visit you!!

Why do people think the new Peter Lynn twinskin is going to be anything like the Phantom? This romanticism of the Phantom might cause a lot of people to be unhappy with the new Arc when it's released. I'm pretty sure that Peter Lynn isn't going to produce a new kite that performs like the Phantom did. It's funny how rumors fly and a kite that isn't even in production somehow has a name and a known performance envelope.

Whatever does eventually come out will be sick.

I hear what Aaron's saying and Markite and I have to agree. The Phantom had it's time and for some people it is a great kite but I think some people who don't have any expirience with the 18m Phantom are going to be dissapointed by it's performance. Especially if they've been flying more current, better preformance kites. That being said I even caught myself considering snapping up an 18m Phantom. Why? Hell if I know. Just because I've never owned one I guess. Like Kami told me last night "THEY LOOK AWESOME" But I know I wouldn't be happy with it and it's better left to others that will enjoy it.

I have a couple of F-Arcs that I'm stoked to play with. So far I haven't seen much of the negative traits that they said to possess but I'vee seen a lot of the good stuff. If I was on the water maybe I'd be saying otherwise but for my usage I think they'll be fun kites.

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell the upper end varies to the square of the size of you balls.

IF VENOM I 13m shows up i'll take one , maybe 3.

I agree with markite, feyd & geo(rudeboy). arc design has definitely progressed. a new charger will make you forget the old stuff. the newer designs are just plain quicker on the turns. very competitive with timing rates of the new tube hybrid styles for sure.

I hope I don't end up the person Chris describes?

I am excited about the 18m Phanny because I am told I will get more low end than my 15m's ? Can this be true ?

Will It fly as early as the 10.8 Reactor I just got ? Into higher winds? Safer ?

I am prepaired for a slower turning kite. I turned away from arcs because I didn't like the slow turning of my Guerllas SO ???

Huh.

I remember when Marijn and Gunnar from PL/ VO showed up at NABX 2009 and were astonished to see the number of ARC's in the sky, many of them Phantoms. They said that they had never seen that many in one place, anywhere in the world. It was right there that the seed was planted for the Phantom II.

The Charger was only just being released at that point and would appeal to those that measured the size of their sticks by how fast a kite would turn and how high they could jump. I was told then straight to my face that it would not replace but would compliment the Synergy.

Now I have to conduct a personal interview with every potential Charger customer to make sure that they understand what they are getting. As much as I have repeat customers coming back for their 2nd or 3rd Charger, I at first had customers immediately want to sell theirs after the first few flights. Nothing could be more heartbreaking for a dealer, solved only by guiding the customer to the used market to get what they want in an earlier ARC.

That's why I'm pleased that Ricardo is making these kites available to the market, even if just used for tents and sleeping bags.

OH WAIT! I forgot. We are the North American market and we don't count. Sorry guys, never mind.

I've got probably 4-5 hours on Angus' 18 Phantom and probably 50 on my 15. Yes the kite isn't speedy to turn but the joy of it for me is the power and stability in the straight line. I'm all about the kite and the Phantom is a fantastic kite for a fun day in the buggy.

On the water, I'd probably appreciate the high strung fast turning that the Charger provides. My synergies can play a dual role for me. I enjoy flying both in the buggy and get along fine with my 15 Synergy in the water even if I'd like a little faster turning.

The differential between those that have moved on to the Chargers and those that have always liked how the Phantoms fly is normal. It doesn't mean that either opinion is wrong, just that they are different. To each his own.

Coming from a Sales/Marketing background, I realize customers don't owe a thing to manufacturers. It is not the customer's responsibility to support a mfr for their R&D efforts by buying and accepting new products. Customers buy things they like to own and use. Mfrs try to provide that and make a profit. Obviously there are many out there that covet what the old (and hopefully new) Phantom provides and that has continued a robust used market for those kites like the Phantom as well as the Venom/VII and now the Synergy. PLP must think they can't have a positive effect of offering the Synergy and Charger at the same time so they don't. Some customers like the Charger better so they are fine with that decision. Some customers feel left out but their numbers might be too small to be worth satisfying by PLP. If I were in charge, I wouldn't pull an old product line until its profitability dropped below an acceptable threshold. I wouldn't pull it from production just because a new model was ready to put on the market. But I'm not in charge and they didn't ask me! :Ange09:

EDIT: It sure would be nice to hear from those that make these decisions so we could better understand why it seems that so many customers aren't worth going after. Then we could move on from this constantly recurring topic.

EDIT II: Yes BR it will fly and power you before a 15m arc will and yes it will fly in about the same low end that your 10.8 will.

Interested in the price of extra kite bag

hehehe, i find this all funny.

im just helping PL "himself" clean his closet and we found all these items that were collecting dust. I figured its better in someone's hands than sitting in a dark corner unseen. We did the same at PL NL and dusted off the rest of the Scropion / Venoms / Phanny they had.

if you want the newest greatest TS - get yourself a Charger.
granted that the Phanny, Scrop, Venom, SYN, CH all fly differently and do have different performance.
what works for one pilot differs from each pilot.

there is a lot of new stuff coming out of the PL NL house, and nothing is going away until something better comes along. the CH replaced the SYN as also the progression in TS also improves. The CH are dominating the freestyle scene in Europe competing nicely against FS and other LEI.

PL in Twinskin and has built its name on that, even though of the niche market its not going to disappear, if anything they will be around and continue to grow. just because Gunnar left PL doesnt mean the TS develop stopped you have a lot of designers over at VLOP and the main man Pepijn and Michel leading the design anything coming out will be stellar.

The LEI is just another market they want to cover.

The Phanny II, is something they saw was needed from coming to America, some pilots are just land locked and they see another avenue there. The Phanny II doesnt replace the CH, nor should it.

If you guys either get a chance to visit Holland, go visit VLOP and your eyes will be open.

whats the latest on your inventory? any 18s left?:duh::duh:

edited:

Kitebuggy mama had to help me sort this out. 1 left Phantom 18m / oddly i have a huge request for Venom I and II bags. did you just not get one? does the design look cool? just curious.

1/9 - BR
2/9 - BeamerB
3/9 - JBentley
4/9 - Todd
5/9 - LeoJim
6/9 - Inverted Force
7/9 - Kami ???
8/9 - Cheezy (sorry for the miss)
9/9 - SheHatesMyHobbies

working right now to sort out shipping cost, okay Im supervising.

I do not see my name on the list....:shocked2:

Ricardo, i couldn't send you a u2u back so if I am not to late, I am good to go and will figure out my u2u and send you the info for the last one of the Phantom's!

U2U sent! In all the excitement, I forgot to empty my trash bin!

Quote:

Originally posted by ripsessionkites edited: i have a huge request for Venom I and II bags. did you just not get one? does the design look cool? just curious.

They make great gear bags. I got buggy stuff in one, and kitesurfing stuff in another. I don't use them for kites though. Homemade sausage bags for that.

Hahaha dang I was hoping I wasn't too late, glad I made it on the "list".

New phantom just sounds TOO good to pass up!

The experience of a new Phantom 18

Just wanted to throw this in here. I swear it felt like I was flying the 15!

Rip,

Ill be on standby if something happens.................

I'll pass on the Phantom - I want one each of the F-arc's please :D

Quote:

Originally posted by ripsessionkites edited: Kitebuggy mama had to help me sort this out. 1 left Phantom 18m / oddly i have a huge request for Venom I and II bags. did you just not get one? does the design look cool? just curious. 1/9 - BR 2/9 - BeamerB 3/9 - JBentley 4/9 - Todd 5/9 - LeoJim 6/9 - Inverted Force 7/9 - Kami ??? 8/9 - Cheezy (sorry for the miss) 9/9 - SheHatesMyHobbies working right now to sort out shipping cost, okay Im supervising.

Glad to see I made the list! Hadn't heard anything so now I'm stoked. I'll admit I'm not quite ready for this kite, but I WILL grow into it so to speak. Definitely in need of a light wind kite. Should be useful by the end of the snowkiting season or at minimum by next year.

Tri, Kami

I do have a 10th one that I was going to keep. So you both could have one. U2U me pls.