donorcycles! be careful!

found this one... http://providence.craigslist.org/mcy/2475927357.html

ugh... already money flying out of my tailpipe.

Sorry I can NOT agree...
Dirt bikes are not rice burners they do not handel the same or feel the same. So other then working out your wrist they will not do anything for you on the street. You sit to high and the "COG" is no where near the same as a leaner.

buy an old used rice burner and use it on the road, Parking lot, back road or something of the same.
I am coming from over 32 years of bike exp. I have never wrecked once (as due to my negligence)! however I have been hit by a drunk driver and was almost killed due to the negligence of someone else. So any way you look at it (have your house in order before you ride) Not to scare you just friendly advice (I have kids and a wife to cover). It is always the other people to look out for.
BTW you will never see me ride my wife... I would never put my kids in the position of loosing two parents at the same time.
My two cents..

... Sorry man, I know what you were trying to say... But your second to last sentence is way funny!

Quote:

Originally posted by Chad BTW you will never see me ride my wife...

Have to say Drew... my mind went there too.

Uh, so confused - thought it was supposed to be fun?
this is no fun at all

Rather not die thanks.

Don't know how tall you are but the problem with a beater dirt bike is that seat height may been an issue.

Looking around, a Yamaha TW200 (similar seat height to a Ninja 250) doesn't really depreciate that much. You'd be going back 10 years or so to get into the $800-$1,000 price range. TW200 rides like a standard or UJM.... a Ninja 250 will have more of a sportbike tuck.

If you are concerned about fairing/bodywork, you might just consider some frame/bar-end sliders.

If your baby sustains any damage, it can often be cheaper to get the repaired by a place that specializes in ABS welding than replacing factory fairing parts.

Take advantage of the ridership course. The RI class follows the MSF curriculum and it covers a lot of good material. The instructors are generally teaching because they love the sport and they're usually very cool/approachable ladies and gents.

You'll pick up the shifting fairly quickly. Counter-steering will take a little bit of a leap of faith because it's not immediately intuitive.

MSF class bikes are generally small to mid displacement bikes purchased through or donated from local dealerships. You might want to call ahead and find out what bikes that have in the stable. Getting on a bike you are comfortable with and that doesn't pose any height challanges will insure you get the most out of the class.

It's been a long time since I have ridden, but I'll toss out some random thoughts anyway. None of it is meant as doom and gloom, just meant to keep you safe.

• Check your blind spots, but more importantly don't linger in other people's blind spots.
  
  
• Look far enough down to road to anticipate problems.
  
  
• At intersections leave enough room between you and the person ahead of you to get around them in an emergency.
  
  
• Stay in gear at stops and watch for traffic behind you.
  
  
• If you have to shift into neutral, wait until their is a vehicle that has come to a full stop behind you.
  
  
• Be careful of oil and antifreeze at intersections when putting your foot down.
  
  
• It's is very easy to hydroplane on a lighter motorcycle without realizing it.
  
  
• On wind days, watch out for cross drafts as you leave the wind shadows of large buildings.
  
  
• Most MSF classes don't have the facilities to practice, but spend some time practicing leaving a stop on an incline. For whatever reason the person behind you absolutely feels the need to tailgate you so they don't have to come to a full stop.
  
  
• Get used to how your bike responds to grooved pavement before you have to deal with it in heavy traffic.
  
  
• Watch out for debris on on-ramps and off-ramps left by other vehicles. And keep an eye peeled for vehicles with improperly secured loads.
  
  
• Be careful of cars turning left in front of you, but also be careful of them flinging loose a hub cap. This actually actually happens a lot during season changes when tire stores get hammered with people swapping in or out winter tires (i.e. hub caps aren't full secured during the install).
  
  
• Be prepared for the air wash when you are passing or being passed by trucks. If their is any rain, expect that the truck is going to dump a bucket or two of it on you. Sometimes faster than your helmet can clear it. Rain-X is your friend.
  
  
• In the Summer months be carefull of asphalt that has softened. It can get soft enough to sink the kickstand enough to drop the bike. Either use the centerstand or a kickstand plate (aluminum or ABS).
  
  
• When pulling off to the side of the road, make sure there is actually something underneath your right foot before putting it down. NE frost heaves and/or the camber of the road can cause you to misjudge your footing a lose your balance.
  

I am sure there lots of stuff I have left off, but....

ATB,
Sam

Bikes are fun... If you want a ricer, just buy one in your budget, take a lesson, and go... I bought my honda, and my test drive was the first time I had ever been on a bike... Not the smartest way to go, lol.... but just get what you'll want to ride, and ride it!

Its not that hard... I know plenty of dumba$$es that do tons of stupid things... And are, just fine... If they can do it you can.. Just try before u buy

Thanks Sam - great tips indeed.

I am 5ft 7in and can stand flatfooted on the 250 ninja (which I was VERY excited about) when I sat on it at a local shop.

Thing is you can buy a NEW ninja 250r in black (what i want) for $3999 so I have a hard time finding anything used (they keep their value like crazy!) for less than $3000. That was why I was just going to take the course and get the ninja... should it drop, it would prob be less to fix than pay for another whole bike just to learn on.

Or am I thinking like a jack(_!_) ??

Quote:

Originally posted by Chad Sorry I can NOT agree... Dirt bikes are not rice burners they do not handel the same or feel the same. So other then working out your wrist they will not do anything for you on the street. You sit to high and the "COG" is no where near the same as a leaner. My two cents..

disagree
i've been owner/rider of cruisers/c-rockets/off road bikes/quads/snow.
sure a dirt bike is different CoG but learning to flick it around and create a skill set that is important and easier/safer/cheaper to.
a dirt bike is very light and built to take a 100s drops/light crashes wich is what a rank newbie needs. a dirt bike will teach you clutch/brake/shifting technique in a safe (legal) area and give you confidence. confidence(peace of mind) is key. if one simply rides dirt bike on hard pack trails at slow speeds then the balance skills may not grow much at all. however if one is riding at speed and is flicking/throwing/braking the bike in and out of corners and climbing hills one is going to have an extraordinary balance/shifting/braking/throttle control/ skill set that will tranfer very well to street especially crotch-roketing (roadracing).
how many Pro roadracers in Pro levels across the board do you think train using moto-Xers? i know....lots and lots and lots.
also learn why and how one should consider using back brakes even on a street bike.

i "ALWAYS" found that from batches of new "crotch rocketeers" that turn up every spring the ones that excelled the quickest were raised on dirt bikes.
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST...do not assume that once you've made eye contact(you know they know you are there) with soccer-mom or granny May that they will not proceed to f-you up.
ALWAYS BE ON GUARD around traffic slow or fast.
never panic...
REMEMBER...unless you are a Pro riding at the limits that crotch rocket your riding will almost always be able to turn tighter(lean more) and stop faster than you think.

edit....
get proper(appropriate) safety gear...i rode cruiser years before i went to c-rocket. i just used my cordura riding gear and stuff for c-rocket at first. i was quickly riding with the "fast guys" but always had a little voice playing tricks with my mind...st uff like hope you don't lay it down here or your gonna be road pizza...
once I bought a proper (one piece) leather roadrace suit (GP armor built in and thick leather) the "voice" never bothered me again. super "piece of mind" and riding was pure fun.

There's lots of good info here. You picked a good bike, and the small ones are really a lot of fun. I don't really know what I can add, because it's hard to make you experience riding a motorcycle through a forum... you just have to do it. There's a learning curve, but once you get the hang of it you'll pick up quickly. Being back brake biased to start out with is fine, and probably the most safe... but learning to use the front brake properly is essential. The main thing to remember is EVERYONE IS OUT TO KILL YOU. You are sitting on an engine with two wheels. That is it. There are no air bags, no seat belts, no nothing. It is you versus soccer moms driving 3,000 pound death machines at 65 mph. I'm not trying to scare you away, but this is the harsh reality and you must be willing to face the consequences of your new hobby. City driving in many cases is even more dangerous than highway driving. A diversity of experience is your best friend. But you have a good head on your shoulders... you should do just fine. Just be careful...

Drewculous I guess i should have worded that a little different! LOL
Sorry to disappoint


Rev = I hear what you are saying and do agree to a point but I don't see most newbes that want to ride on the street (now) spending years on the dirt first (putting the road on hold). Thats all I am saying. If you come from the dirt No argument here with the rest.

Quote:

Originally posted by Chad Drewculous I guess i should have worded that a little different! LOL Sorry to disappoint Rev = I hear what you are saying and do agree to a point but I don't see most newbes that want to ride on the street (now) spending years on the dirt first (putting the road on hold). Thats all I am saying. If you come from the dirt No argument here with the rest.

yea..i wouldn't recommend a person spend years on dirt before they buy/ride the street machine they really want.
perhaps borrowing a dirt bike for a few sessions would be closer to it.
coolll...

Rather than overthink it.... I would wait (oh no...not that... anything but that.... nooooooo ! ) until after the class and see where your head is at after that.

While most of the MSF class is done at sedate speeds, there will be segments that are at "around town" speeds. If your comfort level is sufficient, after the course it could be that a "trainer" bike will be superfluous.

Sometimes, the first scratch/nick/blemish is the hardest one to face.... after that everything is just building character and commemorating your growth with the bike ("that scratch is where I just barely dodged the flying wombat that attacked me.").

ATB,
Sam

And I don't think it's a matter of letting yourself be scared. We play with a wicked force in the wind and have all come to respect it. Respect motorcycling the same and all of it's inherent risks and you'll live a long happy life. Not saying you won't crash but crashes don't have to be all bad. My worst was not a ride-ender. Coming a little too hot into a 90 deg corner 'cuz dumbass me was admiring the lightning in the distance. Back of the bike broke loose on the spotty backroad loose surface, swung out and caught and edge. Bike flipped me off and launched me about 30 feet but I landed on the downslope of the ditch and it was pretty gentle. Granted like RevP said - full leathers with armor were there with me....just like the safety gear while kiting.

highest speed falloff/low-side was at apporx 120 kp/h. touching down from a wheelie that i should have stopped long before i did. had to get on brakes hard for a stop sign to major road and fortune threw in a 1 foot triangular patch of left-over gravel from spring clean up. tucked the front and went for a slide (and roll or two for me). picked up bike amazed that it looked still good. started 'er up and drove off. suffered some scrathes on leathers and a bruise on one hip. did nothing to repair/fix bike except for replace one signal light lens. friends had to look for the other scratches/evidence of crash...lucky.

dropped it like a goof once pulling out of parking lot in front of buddies. instead of getting on throttle hard to straighten bike up/out i feathered throttle/clutch like an old lady and it nearly stalled causing the bike to lose momentum midway through turn and it just fell over as i had both feet on pegs...

A book that is a must read. Do not think of it as a racing manual as much as a "do these things to be successful". It has saved my butt many times over. Read it. Practice it. Live it. BTW make sure you get the second "twist of the wrist"....it is much more useful than the first that deals more with racing theory.

http://www.amazon.com/Twist-Wrist-Basics-High-Performance-Mo...

Kieth Codes teachings are fine, but a bit unorthodox. He relies heavily on countersteering which gets confusing and is a science in itself. Too much physics for a new rider.
MSF classes are a good start for the newbie and returning rider.

I beg to differ that dirt riding won't help a street rider much. Time in the dirt will bring confidence, teach body positioning, teach smooth throttle/braking on loose terrain, peg weighting effects, sliding skills, etc. all help the street rider. You will learn more after a few days in the dirt, then months on the street. Has nothing to do with a crotch rocket having a differant cog or body position. Good example being we have been roadracing dirtbikes with slicks for years. Saved many a lowside with proper body postion, countersteer, and using the kneedown to regain traction.
Nicky shows it here.Love this video .



The best School anyone can attended is Danny Walkers American Supercamp. Flat track based but their teachings work for all disaplines of riding. You will leave with plenty of new tools in your "mental toolbox", then anywhere else.
Many of the top American riders came from a Flat Track background, not SX/MX.
The Haydens, Bostroms, Kenny Roberts Sr./Jr. Colin Edwards, Gary MacCoy(Aussie) all raced at the top...MotoGP....all flat track backgrounds.

Here's American Supercamp school's teachings in 4 parts..Ride on!














Class in DE a few years ago. Fun times!



The infamous Chris Carr 360. Bike control at it's best.



Ride on!

Quote:

Originally posted by chudalicious Crap... Kami. Guess I'm out... Guess knitting and stamp collecting ain't so bad, right? :megan:

Don't be like that I'm just pointing out that you don't have the safety margin of a cage (car) around you and 4 wheels on the ground so you have to be SUPER attentive to your environment and all that's in it.
... it'll make you a better driver too

Like revpaul said, just cos you think they've seen you, doesn't mean they won't pull out - there's a thing called the Looming Effect which dragonflies use to catch dinner - basically, anything coming directly at you reduces your ability to judge distance to almost nothing. Be paranoid.

My first bike was a dirt bike, TT350. Dropped it and myself every time I rode that bike (especially when the knobbies went bald ) and learnt a heap - good investment if you have a dirt track/area handy, not much if you have to travel to get to one.

Counter-steering - your bike isn't going to lean if you don't do it, and if you don't lean you're not turning. Unless you're natural-born Gary McCoy you probably do it naturally above a certain speed and don't even realize

Crashes for me - on the road cos off-road are far too numerous to mention!
... first big one was losing the front wheel on a wet road beyond 100kph - I blame the Cheng Shin front tyre took all the skin off my knuckles and knees - no gloves and jeans - and slid into the curb, gouging a great chunk out of my helmet and mashing my elbow a bit. Rode home from that one - that GS450 was a tough bike wife freaked out when I plopped down on the sofa with bloody knees etc but it was pretty minor.
Low-sides a few times at low to medium speeds ... more damage to the bike than me.
Low-sided again on the TL about 3 weeks after back surgery old tyres, I was trying to save a few bucks by making them last longer ... cos me a mirror, rear brake lever, indicator, sticker for the body and a grazed knee.

What have I learned? Gear will save your hide and don't skimp on maintenance :o

Funny story ... maybe.

My buddy Simon ... wanted to be a biker so when we were about 25 he went and got his learners license and the same day, bought a full set of leathers, an RGV250 and hit the road! 250cc is the biggest bike you are (were?) allowed on a learners in NZ but yes that includes a GN250 and the RGV ... madness but anyway ...

Got a call from Simon that evening - he'd gone off the road and put the bike in a ditch. Broken his little finger but otherwise ok.

I didn't get to ride in a group with Simon until he had about a year under his belt. A year of crashing every time he went out, I was told. Didn't believe it ... so the day came when I got to ride with him. Long straight roads out of the city, I was riding behind him - the first good corner we come to, he rides straight off it into the dirt :o
"What the hell dude?!?!" says I.
"Don't like leaning the bike" says he.
"Erm ..." says I. "Oi Aaron I'm taking point, you watch the rear" and off I went. Stopped about 15 minutes down the road cos I'd lost them. Waited and waited and eventually went back - Simon'd ridden off the road again ...

Fast forward to about 2003 - I'm back in NZ for a holiday, Jeremy gets on the phone "Dude come out to the raceway, Simon is doing a track day on his CBR600"
I'm like "Erm ..."
"No no he's gotten really good"
True enough, he was laying down some good laptimes and riding real well.
"Yo Simon lend me your bike and leathers for a quick blast round the track" says I.
He says "No way you'll crash it"


Next session he goes out, first lap, coming off the back straight into a top gear left hander - oh the irony - he crashes concussion, broken little finger, trip to hospital, wiped out bike ...

Admittedly though, it wasn't his fault - a seagull had flown out into his face at 260kph ...!

Damn gulls...
:Ange09:

Good stuff Kami - everyone really, all great advice and guidance. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge and expereince and most of all, stories!

Our course is scheduled for mid-August so we are trying to learn some basics by going to a good friend's house to get the scoop before the madness begins. In the meantime, we are still wanting to try out a dirtbike but they have pretty much been outlawed in RI with no where to ride and nosy neighbors with the local police on speed dial. Sucks...

Fingers, toes and eyes crossed that we'll figure it all out and I'll have a bike by Sept. and be back kiting (when the beaches close) shortly after.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaymz Kieth Codes teachings are fine, but a bit unorthodox. He relies heavily on countersteering which gets confusing and is a science in itself. Too much physics for a new rider. Quote: I try to keep things simple...push right go right....push left go left. The concept may be confusing to beginners but it is the only way you can turn.

MMMhmmm.... head to toe protection and getting my learnin' on.
We have the mandatory MSF lecture on Saturday and range tests Monday and Friday. Been riding around the neighborhood but the idea of a clutch still escapes me. Ugh, I see no need to fiddle with friction points when all i want to do is go and stop!

Getting it, but slowly...

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/gallery.php?action=viewimage&a...

nice! That is a slick looking ride!

You go girl !!!

:wee: Wee beauty! See a few around here, they look like a great beginner bike!

Clutch is important friction point more so ... you should really get a feel for "feathering" the clutch - increased control is always good, and when you move onto bigger bikes or rude singles, you'll be able to avoid embarrassing stalls, damaging shaking etc etc ...

Draggin' Jeans? Otherwise, tsk tsk

PS. ... picked up my Duke the other night too - wish it wasn't so damned hot out and wouldn't you know it, the wind has been up since I got it

Sartso jeans.... Largest bits of kevlar out there.

Yep, 250cc ninja... Love it!

Shift boots to look like sneakers too.

Still scared out if my mind - 25mph feels like 100

Good for you & your gear!
You get that ... just wait till you rail around your first corner, everything in balance ... I still remember my first time

Quote:

Originally posted by chudaliciousBeen riding around the neighborhood but the idea of a clutch still escapes me. Ugh, I see no need to fiddle with friction points when all i want to do is go and stop!

At some point, your left foot and left hand will start having conversations that you'll only be fractionally aware. At that point, you'll be shifting and feathering the clutch as second nature stuff.

If you haven't already done it as part of the MSF curriculum and assuming it hasn't changed, there will be two exercises that you will do that will help with speed/clutch control. One of them is to cover a stretch of distance (straight) in the longest time possible.... basically going as slow as you possible can without putting your foot down. The other will have you travelling with other riders in front and behind you in a figure 8. You'll have to work the timing and speed so that riders alternate through the intersection point without coming to a stop and (obviously) without hitting each other.

25 feels like 100 because you have a slightly different perspective on the road and there's kind of a "funnel effect" of all the visual input through the faceshield of your helmet.

The first time I took my friend for a ride we crested a hill and he could see an entire valley below us.... he said it was the most 3D he had ever seen the world. Your brain will catch up and start filtering out stuff as needed.

Eventually you will find yourself dropping from highway speeds to 35-45 and it will feel like your are crawling along at 5-10 mph.

It's a lot like transitioning from the kite flying you to you flying the kite.

The first time I drove my motorcycle home from the dealership it honsetly felt very surreal and like I was just going along for the ride.

Waaaaaaah..... now I miss not having a bike. :sniff:

ATB,
Sam

Get one!

Quote:

Counter-steering - your bike isn't going to lean if you don't do it, and if you don't lean you're not turning.

My brother found out about this when he realised he was too close to the side of the road and gently tried to steer away. Of course, he got closer to the side of the road instead.

I also had a copy of 'Twist of the wrist' and after reading about counter steering had to go and pay careful attention to what I was doing....sure enough, when I 'leaned' the bike, I was actually pushing the 'bar in the opposite direction. When I deliberately changed to a very light grip on the bike - nothing. I could climb halfway down one side of the bike and it kept going in a straight line. And the opposite was true - I could stick myself on the tank and put the bike anywhere I wanted by using a bit of pressure - counter steering - on the bar. Very weird. I have no idea how this works or at what speed it becomes the mechanism for steering the bike.

I have also struck a couple of car drivers who turned in front of me (when coming from the opposite direction) - no idea why they couldn't see me. After that, I decided I'd basically ride like I was invisible. Haven't ridden a bike for a while now. Got this new, low, sleek and fast machine called a 'kite buggy'. :wee: