Wasnt gonna chime in but here is my 2 cents. like others i started wih a couple of pansh and agree that they are okay for starting out, as a matter of fact i still have one of the legends for filling a hole in the quiver that works fine- If i have to use it, will try everything else first. I think they fly okay especially if you have a quality line set and handles but are definetly not as well made or fly as well as some of the better kite companies- ie hq,peter lynn, flexi...... But as goof said they were the result of me getting into this wonderful and addictive sport and for that i cant bash them but would not buy them again now that I can appreciate the differences.
S

Bob

Just shows the difference in kiting between North America and Europe, HQ is considered a budget brand there below Pansh. Ozone rules Europe, here it's hardly heard off, same goes for PKD.

As for the differences in quality, I dont get it, most kites are stitched in the same factories in China, Korea, Sri Lanka etc. You would be surprised to see how many of the so called top brands come out of cheap Chines kite factories:eekdrull:

Quote:

Originally posted by hiaguy Quote: Originally posted by Feyd Pansh, the "Gateway" drug of kites. "Yes dear, just fifteen more minutes and I'll come in the house."

There's a huge difference between a Browning A5 and a Mossberg Street Sweeper but the rabbit doesn't know that.

Maybe you see a difference, may be you won't, maybe you notice it right away and decide it's not significant enough to concern you.

Most of my quiver is 5 to 7 years out of "style" and purchased second hand through forum members. Every one of them will perform far better than my skills can manage right now so how important is it to have "top shelf" gear ?

Pansh builds skills just as effectively as Ozone.

Quote:

Originally posted by greasehopper Quote: Originally posted by hiaguy Quote: Originally posted by Feyd Pansh, the "Gateway" drug of kites. "Yes dear, just fifteen more minutes and I'll come in the house." There's a huge difference between a Browning A5 and a Mossberg Street Sweeper but the rabbit doesn't know that. Maybe you see a difference, may be you won't, maybe you notice it right away and decide it's not significant enough to concern you. Most of my quiver is 5 to 7 years out of "style" and purchased second hand through forum members. Every one of them will perform far better than my skills can manage right now so how important is it to have "top shelf" gear ? Pansh builds skills just as effectively as Ozone.

this dude has the right karma, well done young grasshopper

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteboyza Bob Just shows the difference in kiting between North America and Europe, HQ is considered a budget brand there below Pansh. Ozone rules Europe, here it's hardly heard off, same goes for PKD. As for the differences in quality, I dont get it, most kites are stitched in the same factories in China, Korea, Sri Lanka etc. You would be surprised to see how many of the so called top brands come out of cheap Chines kite factories:eekdrull:

You'll notice my issues with Pansh are multi faceted. I've noticed that the mfg tags on the bags of multiple mfrs, are of the same size, shape and even the same material with the same handwriting info on the tag. No secret that Chinese kite factories don't make only 1 brand. That doesn't mean they all use the same designers and spec the same materials though. HQ makes WAY better kites than their European reputation (and US to a lesser degree) would indicate. To back up the quality of materials, design and mfg, they have real instructions and manuals that come with their equipment, a dealer network to provide support, lines, handles and bars that are way beyond suitable for use and arguably among the top in the industry, (certainly not something that everyone suggests replacing with "real equipment"). Not to mention Pansh selling depower kites but no control equipment or recommendation on how to set up whatever you might fly it with.

If Pansh covered these issues, maybe they couldn't sell as cheap, but they might also lose the distinction as the industry example of how not to run a kite company IMHO.

This said, they do fit in a niche in the industry that gets people in the sport. Move on or stick with them, its good that Pansh provides a gateway to potential kiters. Hopefully we don't lose them because of frustration with no dealer support, no instructions, and parts of the package that aren't fully refined.

What isn't made in China these days Makes it cheaper to buy but with no jobs it is still hard to buy cheap. But I still like my Pansh kites :wee: not to say I don't fantasize about owning the other brands.

I gotta tell ya ,I got the 4.0 flux and the 6.1First for the pass the pansh program. I brought them to WW, and quite a few tried the Flux. And I heard no complaints at all. Everyone agreed it was a nice stable flyer and built very well. I will bring those and all my other panshs,and if anyone wants to demo them let me know. I'll set em up, and let ya have at it. The build quality is ALOT better than the aces and legends I first got a few yrs back. The bridles are way better now too. Slick, kind of like ozones bridles. I don't use their handles or lines , I got plenty already. So ,I can't speak on them.
t

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteboyza Just shows the difference in kiting between North America and Europe, HQ is considered a budget brand there below Pansh. Ozone rules Europe, here it's hardly heard off, same goes for PKD.

Have you been to a kitestore or a sportsbeach in Europe? HQ is considdered an A-brand here, just below Peter Lynn, and Ozone. Pansh is usually considdered cheap chinese rip-off stuff, way below any of the other three mentionned above.

It reflects in prices too. HQs costs the same as a Peter Lynn or Ozone for a very similar kite.

Seems Bob sits with Dino on Pansh...lol

pic attached of a quality kite the blew up, I was on Pansh and it never blew up, there goes your theory bud....

When someone is new to kiting, and is looking to buy a practice/starter 4 line kite for the least amount of money; do they have any other choices then Pansh for $99?

My main complaint about the 2m Pansh Legend I have is the some what extensive bridle it has:

Quote:

Originally posted by Pulsar Quote: Originally posted by kiteboyza Just shows the difference in kiting between North America and Europe, HQ is considered a budget brand there below Pansh. Ozone rules Europe, here it's hardly heard off, same goes for PKD. Have you been to a kitestore or a sportsbeach in Europe? HQ is considdered an A-brand here, just below Peter Lynn, and Ozone. Pansh is usually considdered cheap chinese rip-off stuff, way below any of the other three mentionned above. It reflects in prices too. HQs costs the same as a Peter Lynn or Ozone for a very similar kite.

Sure, I lived in the UK for 13 years, flew on the best beaches around, Pendine, Pembrey, Hoylake even a few in France Les Hemmes, Gravelines

Even though most of the kites today are produced out of China, that doesn't mean they are all built the same.

Even the quality of Ripstop nylon or Ripstop Polyester can vary from batch to batch. Things like coatings, thickness, type of nylon or poly reinforcements used will vary the cost from a very cheap material to one that is very expensive. All of these things will effect how a kite performs - regardless of the overall design by the designers. Ripstop Nylon is much heavier than Poly, some coatings will last years while others only a couple months. Some coatings are very heavy others ultra light. Some coatings are very porous while others are very air tight. Normally, the better materials all cost much more than the cheaper ones. Lets not even go into the thousands of different types of thread that can be used.....

When manufacturers (the better ones anyways) contract a factory to produce their kites, they specifically designate what materials are to be used and how the kites are to be assembled / built. When done this way and under very strict tolerances and high quality control, the Chinese factories can produce a very top quality kite. On the other hand, if the Chinese factory wants to produce a knock-off copy at the cheapest possible price point, they can surely do that as well. They will only increase the cost/quality of the product until it becomes "acceptable" by their target audience. It is all done in the name of profits, not quality. This was what I experienced the first time I received Pansh kites. Very cheap materials, crappy bridles, poor quality stitching and thread and worthless handles/linesets. Over time it appears that they did address some of these issues, but only because people refused to purchase the garbage. Are these kites the same quality kites as Flexifoil, Ozone, Peter Lynn and HQ? No way.... Have they gotten better? It appears so, I haven't wasted my money on anything else from them since my first order of Ace's and Legends.

I am sure that Pansh has the ability to produce a high quality kite, but when they do the price will have to reflect the added expense in higher quality materials. Will they actually invest in any R&D and actually develop their own wings? I highly doubt it, especially when it is so easy to rip off someone else's designs. Either way, Pansh is a very cheap way to get into the sport. Over time though, you may find that the money you thought you have saved at first is being re-spend for higher quality gear in the future. When there are still pilots here flying on Ozone Little Devils that still perform excellent - that have been discontinued for over 10 years now - you have to question if you are really saving that much by purchasing cheap gear....

Saying that all kites are made in China so they are all the same is like saying all tires are made of rubber so they too are all the exact same thing. Try putting cheap bias-ply tires on a high performance race car and you will find the difference right away. Same materials, how they are built is totally different - and what makes one tire cost $29.00 each and another cost $345.00 each.

Anyways, I just wanted to help point out some of the differences between one brand of kite and another. This post is not designed to bash one company or to boast another - but to help verify the point that "You get what you pay for".

Hope that helps.

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteboyza Seems Bob sits with Dino on Pansh...lol pic attached of a quality kite the blew up, I was on Pansh and it never blew up, there goes your theory bud....

Oh well. I guess I was mistaken. Pansh must really be the best.

I do respect Dino's opinion quite a bit. And Kent's as well.

I think it's time to grab a friend.... go fly a kite..... take a break and share a couple of cold ones, hold hands and sing kumbaya.....

whew..... this is intense......

Pass me a Killian's.....

This has actually been a pleasant distraction from an otherwise crushing, heart wrenching day.

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob Quote: Originally posted by kiteboyza Seems Bob sits with Dino on Pansh...lol pic attached of a quality kite the blew up, I was on Pansh and it never blew up, there goes your theory bud.... Oh well. I guess I was mistaken. Pansh must really be the best. I do respect Dino's opinion quite a bit. And Kent's as well.

two shopkeepers then....lol


enough on this thread, seems there are more Pansh lovers on this thread than the haters and that's a change!

Actually HQ was the target not long before you got to North America Deiter. They got off to a similar slow start here as well. Unfortunately ( for their timing ) Pansh showed up and ended up getting the bad rep'. Like Airin says " it is much, much harder to build a reputation after it has been hurt " .

Pansh is clearly trying to improve it's product .

Like somebody said they don't seem to follow any typical path though. This includes the new material they are using ? It SLICK ! Reminds me of the stuff that Skycountry is using but ???? What is that stuff called ? How does it measure up weight wise? What kites will this slick stuff come on?

I think the bulky bridle thing is just the Legend design ? Newer Pansh models use less bridle.

There's something pretty darn cool about watching kiteboyza tinkering with a proto for Pansh. I'd take pride in ownership knowing I was flying some of a friend's R&D. I've had my share of Pansh kites but after seeing the newer models that KB had out at Sylvan last winter I have to say they are a seemingly huge step up from what Pansh used to be.

Can anybody shed some light on the new material I see Pansh using? What models will it come on?

I don't know a lot about material but I like the slick feel of the new stuff.

Wonder how it weighs up / stands up? What it's called? Is it the same stuff Skycountry uses ? ( I like that stuff )

Anybody else using this material? Why ? Why not?

Like this one Ken...lol

That kite is HUGE! What size is it?

YUP!

Looks like the material but I think that kite can't exist? I think it's a proto and we all know Pansh isn't supposed to do R+D

;-);-)

If I'm right Pansh will start using this slick material on all kites at some point?

I think that was a 12m wasn't it KB?

nope that was a 6.1m, ask Jellis he had a fly on it.

KB are you comin' to WWBB?

Not this year dude, nabx is next one for me

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteboyza Bob Just shows the difference in kiting between North America and Europe, HQ is considered a budget brand there below Pansh. Ozone rules Europe, here it's hardly heard off, same goes for PKD.

Ozone rules Europe? Flexifoil rules Europe. At least it did when I left England 3 years ago.

HQ considered a budget brand below Pansh? There are more Beamers in the air than just about anything apart from Flexifoils.

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteboyza Not this year dude, nabx is next one for me