Originally I thought that weight played a huge part in the abilty of a light wind kite. And it obviously does or Flysurfer's SA's wouldn't be so popular.

That said, I think there may be some kind of "tipping point". I say this because my 24m+ "Big Blue" pulls and flies as well if not better in light wind as Molly's 19m Psycho 4 SA. The Flysurfer will out turn Blue but for light wind cruising it definately pulls better.

Last year at the Mille Lacs Kite Crossing I used Rudeboy's 24m Syn to win that race. Watch the footage, there wasn't squat for wind. It wasn't easy and I had to work the hell out of that Syn but she did a good job.

Both of these kites have regular fabric and the weight of the spars. Maybe there is a point where a kite gets too big and heavy to be a lightwind kite and tips into "Fat kid's kite" territory but if you continue to make it bigger, depending on the design, maybe some kites tip back into "light wind" territory? Perhaps not super efficient but good enough to get you out and about. On water it is probably different.

I think some of the current "light wind" kites are "small"; hence needing to be lightweight. When you have a 15m Epic Infinity vs's those 24m kites for example. North Dyno's and Blade Fat Lady's.

(SIGH)

Yet another dismal "Me-Too" LEI to saturate the market.

Why bother? I don't see anything the PL has proposed that is any better or different than Best, Cabrinha, RRD, North, Liquid Force, Ozone, Royal, etc...

-joedy

higher AR in depower group would be nice and thats what they have done.

like older c-kites but with DEPOWER. definitely unique. will find its way into race no problem !

Quote:

Originally posted by joedy (SIGH) Yet another dismal "Me-Too" LEI to saturate the market. Why bother? I don't see anything the PL has proposed that is any better or different than Best, Cabrinha, RRD, North, Liquid Force, Ozone, Royal, etc... -joedy

Shame on you!

Why did Lamborghini, Sony or Honda bother? Much better than we all drive Fords, listen to Marconi wireless and ride HarleyDavidsons, you think?

.

stupid Machintosh triple-posting bag of poo ... this never happens on Windows :D

wow triple threat post. lol I really can't wait to see real normal person reviews on these kites. Maybe another option when I go looking for a nine meter next summer. Its definitely a flooded market, but with Peter Lynn's history I bet they can bring something different to the table.

Quote:

Originally posted by joedy (SIGH) Yet another dismal "Me-Too" LEI to saturate the market. Why bother? I don't see anything the PL has proposed that is any better or different than Best, Cabrinha, RRD, North, Liquid Force, Ozone, Royal, etc... -joedy

I dunno, I've heard a lot of good things about these kites. I've never had much interest in riding an LEI but I will say I'm intrigued. I agree on the surface it does seem like just another LEI in a pretty broad LEI market. I would try one out before I assume it's just another "flavor of the week".

I have faith in Pepijn and his kite building ability. I don't think these LEIs are "run of the mill".

Hopefully they will be made available for demo. Maybe someone could coordinate that?

Someone asked about the name the kite contest winners:

First to third:

Lou Pil (kite of choice winner)
Graham Grattam Curtis
Jolly Good

"Yet another dismal "Me-Too" LEI to saturate the market.

Why bother?"

well, that's what ozone could have said, I think it worked out pretty well for them, and they brought some different stuff to the table, like the c4.

and, hey, more people working on the same stuff brings better product at the end of the day, I'm definitely game for a competent and proven company like PL giving their hand at LEI's.

I'm sure the decision to build inflatos was more of an economic decision than anything else. I would bet that inflato buyers outnumber foil buyers by at least 100 to 1 and more likely 1000 to 1. A well designed and built inflato is hard to beat. Modern inflatos are stable, turn fast, and have huge depower and range. Although they may not last as long as a good foil, if well cared for will easily last 4-5 years of frequent use (mine have). And production costs for inflatos are cheap. Probably less than half of what it costs to build a good foil. Not a whole lot of reasons to buy a foil over an inflato and a lot fewer reasons to build and sell them. Face it, the Peter Lynn Arc market has shrunk over the years and they probably needed to do something to generate income or pull the plug and go out of business. Although I'm encouraged to see they are offering larger sizes (not many companies do any more) I'm sad to see their graphics are pretty lame by 2011/2012 standards. Not ugly, but not exactly beautiful either.

the hopefully outstanding product might be the 19 sqm fury ultralite ! if it is really ultralite, than it might be way better than all the other lightwindkites (that are all not really light weight).

currently i think the "winner" is the north dyno 18 sqm. it is told to have a very high AR and ver efficient profile.

lets hope the PL Fury 19 ultralite will beat it !

btw, kite weight does not influence light wind power... the (park-n-ride) power generated just depends on the area and the qualities of the profile...

but the weight plays a very important role regarding handling !

last january, i was snowkiting, i took all my gear with me, including the ozone zephyr 17. when we did face really weak winds, i tried to launch the zephyr and was f*cked. that big fat heavy thing was unable to launch! i was running backwards like stupid.. that thing lifted, and before i could turn it to make a power dive, it just front-stalled. thats the sad truth about LEI's in very light wind: they just drop out of the sky if you dont watch them permanently. but with my 7.7 sqm peter lynn twister i was riding in seconds! just unwind lines, lay it out and pump it up. turn it and go ! nothing beats the ease of handling of a lightweight foil.

i think it would be possible to build a real light weight tube kite. but it has to be less robust. the tubes must be made out of thinner cloth, there must be more bridles to support the leading edge, maybe also some bridles on the struts (like with those ultra-flat genetrix tube kites? http://www.genetrixkites.fr/)
but then.. you could as well just build a lightwind depower foil kite !
btw - wasnt also a depower foil by PL announced ? when will those hit the market ?

The best lightwind kite I've flown is still the Best Waroo 20m. Better than any other 20m I've ever owned, including a Flysurfer Speed2 19. But they aren't made any longer and are hard to find. I still have mine if anyone wants to come to the Banks and prove me wrong.

One thing to keep in mind regarding lowest wind speed to ks in, it's not about pull of the kite. As someone in this thread posted, a paraglider will pull like crazy in 5mph of wind. But will it have the speed to keep you on top of the water? For instance, a freight train moving slowly will certainly pull any of us through the water, but it would have to be moving forward fast enough to get someone on a plane to be of use.

Quote:

Originally posted by bigkahuna I'm sure the decision to build inflatos was more of an economic decision than anything else. I would bet that inflato buyers outnumber foil buyers by at least 100 to 1 and more likely 1000 to 1. A well designed and built inflato is hard to beat. Modern inflatos are stable, turn fast, and have huge depower and range. Although they may not last as long as a good foil, if well cared for will easily last 4-5 years of frequent use (mine have). And production costs for inflatos are cheap. Probably less than half of what it costs to build a good foil. Not a whole lot of reasons to buy a foil over an inflato and a lot fewer reasons to build and sell them. Face it, the Peter Lynn Arc market has shrunk over the years and they probably needed to do something to generate income or pull the plug and go out of business. Although I'm encouraged to see they are offering larger sizes (not many companies do any more) I'm sad to see their graphics are pretty lame by 2011/2012 standards. Not ugly, but not exactly beautiful either.

Kiteboarding is just one avenue for Peter Lynn, his kite company has been around a lot longer than the sport. I don't think you are wrong by saying that it was an economical decision to enter the LEI market. I also don't think that they needed to enter it either. Arcs are probably a bigger seller than we might think. Just cause we don't see them everywhere we go doesn't mean that they don't sell a lot of product. They also are a major manufacturer of fixed bridle race foils. I bet there are wayyyyy more landkiters out there than water kiters because not everyone has access to a lake or ocean. I'm also willing to put my money on it that the foils market is just as big as the inflatable market. Lei are just marketed so much that we are lead to believe they are the only thing selling. In the picture of things if you mentioned kiteboarding/powerkiting most people would only think water and being in a tropical destination. I actually had someone tell me I was doing it wrong when landboarding because they only believed that kiting was a water sport.

If they can figure out how to make a LEI that gets the cg back far enough to make them autozenith, that would be a feat. Or one that can be reverse launched like a foil.

krumly

"I bet there are wayyyyy more landkiters out there than water kiters because not everyone has access to a lake or ocean"

It would be pretty interesting to see the stats, but I would think its the opposite - lots of guys still use LEI for land too.
Didn't someone give some stats for Ozone a while back that suggests that LEI sales outnumbers foil sales by multiples?

"Didn't someone give some stats for Ozone a while back that suggests that LEI sales outnumbers foil sales by multiples?"

If you're only counting power kites, maybe.
But if you're also counting sport kite foils...?

One thing about new LEIs is that they're fairly expensive. So they can be more advertised. Retailers can set up brick n' mortar shops in good locations because it's almost like a low-scale auto dealership with new models each season.

We need to take this question to a Higher Authority and invoke the Sofa King once more!

(Or if he's not available, the Hooj wealthyone Himself!) :shocked2:

Quote:

Originally posted by herc btw - wasnt also a depower foil by PL announced ? when will those hit the market ?

yes

xplore - 4.0m learner / trainer snow

lynx - 5.0, 7.0, 9.0, and 11.0m

lets hope the choice of the name "lynx" is not a bad omen ;-) (do you remember the first color handheld console called lynx? that was pretty awesome, but failed big time regarding sales.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Lynx )

anyway - i am much more looking forward to a 11 sqm lynx than the tubes. (still very curious about the 19 ultralite)
hope the big lynx for lightwind will have a high AR, while the small lynx will have low ar for stability !

It's the intermiate one for now @ AR 3.6m

He he, no Photoshop for the three lined up kites, aside from the artwork & logo's anyways.
Just a coordinated start and a photographer that timed his shot right :D
Wanted to post original pic but dunno how...

MJ do you have some insights to share about the Fury flying characteristics that you like the most about it? Also what things that make it a unique LEI because it is a PL development?

good looking kites..................not to be critical but alot of you are saying just another LEI but how many of you really have flown enough LEIs and have the water experience to make those comparisons.....................:duh:

AD72, I've flown the proto's and the odd tube from other manufacturers but as a foil addict I really do not have enough LEI experience to make educated comments on characteristics.

Really need to go and fly more tubes now...

I have to second BigK. The 20 waroo is a crazy machine. i got a buddy who flew one if wind was 6mph or 25mph! lol

Big K,

as long as your pumpin Ill drive up in the spring and give your 20 a goer.......................:duh::duh:

sad news: the prices for the PL tubes are as high or even higher than other tubekitebrands..

according to this website:

http://tubekites.se/
(maybe prices are generally higher in sweden?)

is this a good strategy ? should prices be a bit lower if a newbie enters the market ? or should prices on par with established HQ brands like ozone ? sure, if prices are too low, customers might suspect low quality.. but i got my ozone zephyr kite only for 900 euro. the fury 17 lite will cost 1389 - even with 20% discount that is 1111 euro..

900 full RRP or deal on a site somewhere?
I think the Fury Lite should be compared to a Crossbow 16 LW or similar specialist kite ...

FWIW an Epic Infinity costs exactly the same and is only 14m or something :D