I found it and it was in a time crunch so I bought it. I figured that the smaller would be better than the 16. And even if I couldn't use it I could do something else with it in the future. You are right that is definitely too far away. But although I am getting cheapish kites I don't think safety is something to cheap out on. And the trainer is a hq symphony, I know another semi cheap kite :/ but I figured it was big enough to teach me the amount of force adequately

you got the itch bad...but you have to slow down...we will try to help you keep $$$ in your pocket
dont buy old outdated stuff while we are asleep....plenty of good stuff avail on the cheap and then
theirs other stuff for sale that's really only good to cover the bbq...i hope you got something proper

Well it was on a deadline and I figured it would be better than a 16m. And if it still was bad than I could just use it in the future for something. And my trainer is an hq symphony and is a foil. I figured that it would give me a good enough feel for power even though it is only a 2 line. I'm not planning on doing anything until I am fully comfortable with the trainer. And yes @abkayak that is way too far but at the same time I don't think one lesson for safety reasons would be too much money. I'm sure lessons would cost much less than hospital bills

Transitioning from a symphony to a Lei. This ought to be interesting :evil:

Tried and true advice is learn a 3m quad line foil first. The Symphony isn't really a trainer IMO. Not enough power and only 2 line. You will learn a little bit about the power window but that's about it. I'd keep the LEI's in the bag until you learn on something big enough to drag you around (3m in 10-15ish winds) That symphony is a toy comparatively and won't teach you power management.

Symphony is a stunt foil. they size different than power kites. Similar to a snapshot. Here's a picture of my old 2.5 snapshot next to a true 3m power kite (hq beamer)

Ok so i have considered to possibly resell the 2 kites I bought and buy a newer year and what you all say is adequate. The problem I kept finding looking through ebay and ALL of the kitesurfing forums, like I keep saying the winds really aren't that strong and I would probably be kiting around 13mph or so normally. I weigh 165 and I need a kite that can support me in the low winds. Of course whenever you add a title such as"low wind" prices sky rocket and I just can't afford a low wind kite. The price range I would like to spend on the kite is 350 or less but of course I would go a little more. So how can I get a beginner kite that will work in light winds but somehow also at a low cost?

and if there no way I can afford anything adequate than I will have to wait and save money, but that means the itch will get strnger and stronger and stronger

Newb- you seem to maybe have a few more brain cells then some if us, thats good! as for selling the kites- DO IT. Cut your loses, and ask questions on here. As others have said if it is pre-2006 sell them old depowers don't really depower that much and require a lot more wind (in general) then a decent smaller fixed bridle. Most of us wont bother getting on the water unless the wind is blowing 15+ and land works for most around 8+ mph. As others have said buy a decent 3m fixed bridle to learn and you will end up keeping it forever. Stop looking on ebay and start watching on here for some used kits. I am also self taught in crappy winds so its possible, but jumping the gun and buying the wrong stuff at first actually slowed my progression and cost me a fair chunk of change. As for wind- I can fly my little FB kites (3.5m) in winds as low as 5 mph- wont rip my arms off or pull me around but that type of "lull" flying will make you a much better kiter when you have real wind. So progress slowly, wear a helmet, and have fun also be realistic kiting is expensive which is why most of us are over 40. As for injuries or getting hurt, it will happen hopefully not serious but I have had kites "take" me to the ER twice in the last 6 years of kiting even after I knew what I was doing (chance fracture of my t11 last year)- so be aware and use the mush between the ears. yes I still kite and love it but you are playing with something you cannot see or control.
s

Does anyone ever sell any small kites like that. All of the new trainers that have at least three lines seem to be way too expensive for a kite i cant do anything special with. One question I have about the trainer is as long as I learn all the kite dynamics and what to do, and also fly it in stronger wind than do I really need to get a better trainer? I figured that as long as I learn to spread the power more or less than that is really all I truly need.

My 3.5 rage is my go to kite in a buggy- no land speed records but have hit 32mph with it. I also have used it for landboarding. I will say though I use almost exclusively my arcs when I am doing any standing - ie skis or board. because I think it is easier and safer. BEC is up near Rochester and he skis on the lakes with his 3.5 all the time- he prefers it over depower- fwiw.
s
as for selling yeah you will see them pop up but you want to get a decent 3-3.5 meter 4 line on handles.

honestly you shouldn't sell that stuff to anyone else that doesnt understand how this works..hope it was cheap
you know how we will feel if we have to do this again...jusayin
whats the 12 anyway? maybe its not as bad as we are expecting

It's a rhino. I got them each for about 150 and they are all in great condition. Right now I'm just thinking that I'll just save them until I can safely learn to use them.

proper move...my 1st purchase was an 04 Slingshot Fuel 9m.. i replaced the chic loop and now feel im ready/able to fly it
been looking at that kite for 3yrs, put it up once w/ the lines attached wrong...most all of us make mistakes along the way
trick is to not make fatal ones...find a 3m/4line and learn to be a pilot, then move on from there..or the $$ and lessons
imo

Never make a decision based on time crunch...only on education from expert guidance. If deal is too good there's a reason for it.

People on PKF here can only help you if you listen...and they don't have too much contrary opinions to confuse you

FINALLY you answered my question PARTLY . I'll assume the 12m Rhino is also an 04. That it was the same seller and his rush was the BUMS RUSH.

In my opinion you are wasting money in your rush to buy cheap stuff! Ebay is where people go when they can't sell their stuff on a respectable kite forum!

NO 2004 kite is worth $150 even with the old bar and lines. Good luck trying to resell those kites at all. Please don't do what was done to you and sell them to an unsuspecting newb. I thought that telling you how I paid $1000 used for a similar kite and had trouble unloading it at $100 back in about 2009 would show proof of my mistakes. I wasted a LOT of money buying and having trouble selling gear at 1st. I hate to see somebody else wasting money.

Asking for and listening to advice on this forum was the changing point. I sold my Ebay shares and turned my back on them completely. ( search Jonesband ) Folks on here really want to help. Slow down and listen to their advice!

Have you pumped these things up? The bladders aren't going to last even if they hold now. If they hold air I say don't fly them so you can try to sell them that way. Holding air means holding it for 6 hours. Did he even include a pump? 04 pumps were junk.

Again I mention that you are absolutely going to need a kite assistant with these kites. That learning to assist with a big LEI is a learned skill of it's own. To go out with these kites and nobody to assist with ground handling would be a big mistake.

You don't own a trainer kite. You own a toy stunt foil. You are way off base thinking that a QUALITY 3m trainer kite doesn't offer you anything " special " . A 3m is just the perfect size to learn kite control on. Just big and powerful enough to perform like it's bigger brothers. Just small enough that you can force it to fly in light wind while being able to fly into stronger and stronger winds. I think that most of us on this forum would agree that starting out on the right trainer kite is priceless! The reason you see so few for re-sale is because most people hold on to them if they can afford to. You can buy and sell a QUALITY used trainer at a pretty minimal loss. As I see it you have already lost $300. $300 would have bought you a new quality trainer and you would be on the path to becoming the pilot you hope to be right now. If you have enough to buy a quality used trainer still I suggest you buy one and see what we mean. While you are mastering control of it you can work on selling off the stuff you have to fund your 1st proper depower LEI.

I suspect you are feeling a bit frustrated right now. We all understand. We were there to. The sad fact is that you have to work your way up in this sport. The fact that it isn't as easy as it looks is what makes becoming a kite pilot sooooo worth it! Keep up that enthusiasm. It's not easy on your own but that is a big part of what this forum tries to help with. You have a somewhat difficult goal. Like others have mentioned riding on water doesn't really work until you get about 12mph winds. Low wind riding isn't easy and not as rewarding as you may imagine? It isn't an impossible goal. It's just not a 1 step process.

It also sucks when money is tight in this sport. Buying and selling quality used gear is the best way to work up the ladder. Don't let anybody rush you into a deal if you aren't fully educated in what they are selling.

That said, when a good deal on a quality trainer comes up on here or other respectable forums they sell fast! So do your home work and know what type trainer you want.

i'm overposting tonight but damn that was a good post bladerunner. spot on

Just curious, ... how old are you, Newb?... Don't mean to sound disrespectful, but you seem kinda young.

At the risk of chiming in on a thread that's being covered by many that have more experience and talent than me...

There's another thread that I haven't seen mentioned here:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=28759#pid27...
It summarizes many of the issues that newcomers to the sport face, and makes some specific suggestions.

After 20 years with ripstop in the air, the first kite that really allowed me to learn to fly with power was a 3m PL Hornet. There are several kites in this size/price range, and some less expensive, that are great "first kites". You gotta learn to walk before you start running.

There are a few on this forum that sell kites retail. Look at their wares - it'll give you an idea of what "real" prices are like to buy new equipment. Trust them - they're here because they're welcome here. Then you'll also have an idea of what constitutes a "good deal" when the rest of us put our gear on the market.

When you're looking at used gear, look at:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=16272&p...
to get an idea of other's opinions of the seller.

Regardless of new or used, everyone here is concerned about helping you start safely.

And, most importantly, keep asking questions. We've all made the mistake that others can learn from - take advantage of our stupidity.

Welcome to the addiction :wee:

I'm 19 and about to be a junior in college. One more question, I would like to landboard also and was wondering even though everything is much harder such as the ground. Would learning on land be easier to do because it takes a smaller kite? And I wasn't planning to fly unless winds are at least 13 mph, because I realize below that would just be too hard to learn

Has anyone of you tried or heard how the PL uniq is. I'm now thinking about getting a 2.5 or 3.5 and just did my longboard with mountain stuff. Don't worry this time I'll try to listen to everyone's input

Blade - I'm with ssayre - that was a very well stated and respectful submission. Boy, have we "old farts" sure made our share of mistakes!

Newb - I want to echo what has been said in terms of our overwhelming desire to help new folks such as yourself head down a tried and true path, not necessarily the tortuous paths so many of us started our journeys on. This isn't an age thing, just an experience level in this particular sport/hobby. I have a son a few years older than you and I can see a lot of his "youthful exuberance" in you.

One small point to consider. I've read on a number of your posts that you seem to be equating water as somehow being safer than land (softness of water versus hardness of land, etc.). I would caution you to reconsider this logic. I'm very pleased to see you reconsidering putting up your big kites in the water at this point, alone no less. I had visions of you being plucked up in the air, crashing down and sinking to the bottom never to be seen again. You can have a blast on land controlling a smaller kite that has lots of pull but not much lift. A helmet, knee and elbow pads and an empty soccer field and you are loaded for bear!

Quote: Originally posted by average_newb

Has anyone of you tried or heard how the PL uniq is. I'm now thinking about getting a 2.5 or 3.5 and just did my longboard with mountain stuff. Don't worry this time I'll try to listen to everyone's input

BigMike has posted two threads on the Uniq Quad

• Peter Lynn Uniq Quad Review
  
• Uniq Quad Extended Look
  

ATB,
Sam

Newb - I missed that you are looking into the PL Uniq kites at a couple of sizes. A couple of us have bought the Uniq and quite abit has been written about them on PKF. I did a short head to head comparison of a 4.5M Uniq with a 4M NS3:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30673

I have not had the chance to try the Uniq yet as an engine to pull me around, and so far I've only flown the Uniq static. If you go the Uniq route I would suggest going with the "quad" model, which like its name implies is a four line kite flown best off of handles. The other two Uniq models are two and three line versions and I wouldn't recommend going in that direction based on where you want to head in this sport.

One thing that is really nice about the Uniq is that it is a "single skin" kite. This will have two advantages for you. First, as a single skin kite you don't have to worry about internally exploding the kite when you crash it into the ground nose down. This will likely happen a lot at first just as it did for most of us just starting out (I did this plenty of times slowly moving up the skill curve). Second, single skins pack up super small making them highly portable.

There are some downsides for the Uniq noted in early impressions in various PKF threads, supported by "mj" who has more experience with this kite than any of us (if you use the search function in PKF and search for "Uniq" you will find quite a lot). Primarily, the early rub against this kite in its 1st generation is the relative smallness of its wind window. This means virtually nothing as a static flyer, but as a pulling engine this could be problematic. My personal early impression with this kite is that it's pulling force dies down at the edges of the wind window. This will likely make it harder to work upwind when trying to tack back to where you started. If you have a perfect square field or ideal cross winds this is probably a non issue, but what you will likely find is the need to ride in places where the wind just doesn't blow the way you wish it did. What ends up happening a lot of times is you fly down one way on your field and struggle to get back on your return journey. The more narrow the wind window is for your kite engine the more difficult this return journey becomes.

Quote: Originally posted by average_newb

. The kite is old but it is a 5th line kite meaning it will fully depower.

There is an old saying..... The only fully depowered kite is the one folded up and locked in the trunk of your car.

Speaking as a newb myself and so far only using a 3m PL Hornet, I can't imagine what the pull would be like on a 12 or 16m kite. I've only been out a handful of times and only twice in what I would consider higher winds (sorry I have no gauge yet on what actual wind speeds I'm flying in). On those couple occasions I was getting my ass pulled around (and I'm not a light guy) the soccer field pretty good when the kite was in the power zone.

Just be safe. I can see how things can get out of hand real quick if you aren't careful. Before I started I watched a bunch of kite fails on youtube which put a bit of fear in me

If board sports are your end game. The most affordable, accessible, possibly the easiest if you have skate experience is longboard kiting on pavement. 3-4 meter nasa kite on 5meter lines and a craigslist longboard is all you need to enter motion nirvana. You will need to learn kite control before you step on the board but you don't need a lot of power or expensive equipment. I don't recommend air time on pavement though

I was using roughly $300 worth of equipment in this video and in 12 mph wind and I'm 240#

no wind and nothing but rain lately or I would be doing it right now instead of typing this post.

Sean - I am so glad you just posted that video! I've seen you boarding before on pavement. Everytime I see you doing it I always think it looks so easy. I know it is you that makes it look easy and it is me that is having an easy time watching you make it look easy. Nonetheless, you look good doing it.

What I was pleased about this time was the back half of the video where you were buggying on pavement with short lines and your NASA. Sweet! My small-kite NASA quiver has been expanding and I've thought of getting their 5M lines to cruise around with on my buggy on pavement for kicks for short time slot sessions.

Question for you - i was watching your video on an iPad and couldn't tell what you had in your hands. I'm assuming a bar, not handles, is that right? I've got the bar that Born supplies with its chicken loop and third line setup which I thought would work but is a bit overkill for this job as I wouldn't think I'd do this harnessed in (one more time consuming step). What bar do you use? Is it worth getting their "Street Bar" in addition to the one I already own? I don't see needing to utilize the "depower" feature in this setting so the adjustability for the 3rd central line seems more adjustment than I need here.

T-Dot - EXACTLY!!!! This is what we've all been trying to say in various ways in this thread. My first traction kite was the P-3 by Prism (3 sq M) a pretty simple but nice kite that could be flown with either two or four lines depending on how you set up the bridle. I'm 6ft and just over 200 lbs. and my son is about 6'4" and is a "corn fed" 250. Both of us have been dragged around a soccer field (him on his back which I have to say looked pretty funny even if he didn't think so). Point being exactly what you were saying. Even a couple of square meters of ripstop up in the air can completely overpower larger men in an instant. I've been pretty much pulled out of my socks a couple of times by my old P-4, feeling like Charlie Brown on the pitchers mound when he gets shelled from the plate. The stakes only increase as the square meters of kite increase. An older generation kite in the 12-16 M range as was originally discussed in this thread could easily end up wrecking your whole year if not worse.

Landboarding is alot eaiser to learn than kitesurfing and in my opinion safer also. I started learning on water and then eventually went over to landboarding and have been doing it eversince. You can use a much smaller kite to get moving which kind of eliminates some of the risk of using a big kite and its eaiser to set up and you can kite all year. It takes alot of power to get moving on the water and most folks dont realise that the kite really needs to support your weight to move in the water and thats alot of power if you dont handle it properly as it will throw you around. I remember it was so frustrating trying to learn on water with the old fashioned C kites as they really didnt have much depower and you were thrown around. It was a really scary time to learn. We have all had that excitement when we started, just be safe and make sure you fly the correct sized kite for the wind speed, As newbie dont fly on very windy days or instead fly a very small kite thats one of the most important things. A 3m foil would be perfect to start on the landboard. As for the 2 kites u bought sell the 16m and keep the 12m. Get a good 4 line 3m foil and get used to the power of that, then u can move on to putting up the 12 m in low wind , just enough to have it stay up. you will need a trained helper offcourse to launch and land the kite. everything will be cool dude , just don't put the kite up in strong winds, (meaning anything over 15mph) adn make sure u are aware of the weather forecast for the day so u dont get surprised by any sudden change in the winds. My first lei was a 12m and it was a big change in power from my foils, but luckily a big kite like that moves alot slower so i didnt have any issues. the only problems came when i flew it on a windy day as a big kite like that will put the FEAR of loss of life or limb in you real quick on a windy day . Fly away from people, most of us learned on our own with friendly input from others, stay safe and goodluck .

Thanks Steve I was using the born kite street bar. I used to use a Peter Lynn kite killer lengthened with a piece of para cord attached to one side of the yellow third line that's up form the bar. It's not immediately obvious how to hook up the kite killer. I'll dig up a picture somewhere. I've made a wooden bar that worked well while I was waiting on my street kite bar from Germany. Yes, it's very convenient for quick sessions. No harness no fuss. Once I was confident the kite killer became an annoyance and was eliminated making it even more easy and the third line irrelevant.