And thanks volock, I suspect you're right about the forces involved and a pin setup being the only sure fire fix. I'll take that as the last resort if non of the other suggestions "stick".

And yeah it's all stainless. Don't fancy my chances of accurately drilling by hand though!

Quote: Originally posted by volock

I'd think the main options/idea would be: Sticking on removeable texture: ie Hockey grip tape (like used for wrapping the bottom end of your stick) or Skate Grip Tape or Velcro Spray on texture: ie glue / glue with sand in it / etc Sanding to roughen the surface Drilling holes for clevis pin setup Personally with the forces involved, I'd be shocked if anything but the bottom option worked longterm. Were it me, I'd probably go with drilling small holes, through the axle at 90 degress of each other, to get you the highest, medium and lowest orientation of the axle, and then one hole that will line up properly with those straight through the axle clamps, and use a small clevis pin for holding it. It'd stop the rotation, and still leave some of the benefits of the axle design. As I'd assume it's all stainless, while no holes is preferable, the small holes I don't think would expand the corrosion risk much.

definitely drill and pin, ample size as well . one at favorite setting.

Quote: Originally posted by robinsonpr

Worth a try! So the hard stuff stuck around the Axle AND inside the clamp? And bin the soft side?

The hard stuff is stronger, withstanding the torsional forces without tearing but first try the Velcro as it was intended then try hook on hook.

Get down to homebase. They sell the wide stuff.

If drilling with a drill press, I'd say make sure to use a V-Block, worth it's weight in gold for drilling tubing. Not much experience off one for drilling that stuff in something I'd care that much about, so I'll leave it to PopEye or one of the other experts around here to advise.

I was thinking it wouldn't hurt to check in with Popeye... he may have a suggestion since he MADE the thing.

Hey, robinsonpr, post us up some detail pics of what the clamp looks like... not only am i curious, but it also may help us visualize a possible solution.

That is one beast you have there!! Not sure about packing the clamp I think there is just too much force with the cantered axle ends, first thought is pin it, but drilling SS, may need a fabricator to do that for you. Two holes in the axle would give you three positions high, low and a mid setting.

Popeye is out of the building game now. What a loss! I did get in touch with him about the slippage, he said wrap some gaffa tape around the axle That's what it had when I got it from the previous owner. It was all worn and chewed up but new stuff didn't help.

E you're gonna have to explain the 2 holes, 3 positions :puzzled:

I'll post a pic of the clamps later today.

Thanks all!

Other alternative...just set the axle at it's lowest position and pull the seat straps up tighter so my ass isn't dragging on the ground. Simple! But has the disadvantage of having to have the seat 2-3 inches higher, so losing the security of the super high side rails...

With the axle at it's highest, drill one hole through the clamp top to bottom through the axle as well. You can then rotate the axle 180 deg and you now have two positions where you can put a pin through highest and lowest. Rotate the axle 90 deg, drill through the clamp hole and make another hole in the axle, you now have a mid position as well....... simples :D

Or just loose some weight lard @rse :D :D :D

Oh yeah :D :D

Here's the rear axle clamps:

nice shot. drill and pin same size as bolts , find a good angle away from fixed weld .

clamp all together tight, right where you want it---> drill it small to large with it all clamped really can't mess it up. Don't let it slip!

simple easy effective , good stuff man

Don't fancy my chances of drilling that stainless...gonna need some proper hardcore pillar drill isn't it? And somehow get the frame into it!?

Robinsonpr - pictures speak 1000 words. Great photos. I'd been waiting to weigh in to see them.

If you were American I'd now be saying "Whoa Cowboy"! Please put that drill bit away. Not saying all those excellent drill tips wouldn't do the trick, but why go NUCLEAR before you've exhausted NEGOTIATIONS?

Now that we've seen the photos I bet I'm not alone in thinking of suggesting to you RedSky's thought voiced earlier in the thread and go VELCRO. Not the flimsy stuff that you see on clothing, but the industrial strength stuff you can buy at a large hardware store. What I'm talking about can be seen here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001O6T2ZS

This sort of Industrial-Strength VELCRO can be obtained in a near infinite variety of sizes and profiles (thickness). It comes as a sticky tape. I'd want to buy it at a brick and mortar store versus online because if it were me I'd want to hold it in my hands to judge if it would fit in the space that forms in between the outside of the axle and the inside of the clamp. Since the clamps bolt down I suspect there would be space to put something such as this in there.

A further thought is I'd be putting the hooks on the axle and stuff the hooks connect with on the inside of the clamp. You will be dealing with a "convex" surface issue on the axle and a "concave" issue on the inside of the clamp. I'd be examining the VELCRO to make sure the hook and pile sides would still work being flexed into these convex and concave shapes and still intertwine properly for this fix to hold. If the hooks and what they hook into can't lock in place then this design won't work and you'll have two slippery pieces of plastic tape in there and it will be more prone to slippage than not having it in there at all.

It may well be that the super thick VELCRO I showed in the link is too much for this application and that some of their lighter grade material will suffice (not all the way down to the flimsy stuff that holds a jacket cuff closed, but thinner than the maxed out stuff. VELCRO is INCREDIBLY strong and is specifically designed not to shear once interconnected, exactly what you are looking for inside that clamp.

Good luck! We're all rooting for you. It is an absolutely beautiful buggy and we all want you enjoying it!

getting the set up in a press, that would be a difficult.

mark, punch it, fresh bits, keep it square with suitable pilot, then go with the finish size.

if the axle is solid, which would surprise me, could make things somewhat more challenging , a drill jig clamp would make things even easier and indeed precise a bit overkill imho.

i would totally phree hand that, < 20MIN total. you could tap it if you liked, but i like quick pins, its fast easy tool free handling.

Thanks Steve! Yeah I deffo don't want to go nuclear before trying other options. Velcro will be my next try. Only thing is the OD of the axle is very close to the ID of the clamps. I guess when it was built the intention was that nothing would be in between. Even with just a layer of thick gaffa tape it was a real struggle to get the clamps closed enough to get the nut and bolt through.

I'll keep you posted once I've tried some of the other options!

Phree! My phreehand is not as trained as yours. The axle isn't solid though, so maybe doable if the other options strike out!

Quote:

Even with just a layer of thick gaffa tape it was a real struggle to get the clamps closed enough to get the nut and bolt through.

While you're at the hardware store grabbing some velcro, grab some longer bolts too. I'd hazard a guess that Pops has used stainless bolts, (unless you mean you can't actually get the clamp close enough to line the holes up?) but there's no reason you couldn't grab some cheap zinc ones just as a test.

Also, with the SS bolts/nuts, pop some sort of anti-seize on the threads before you do them up. I completely sheared the head off a brand new 8mm SS bolt recently when the nut seized. In a pinch, a quick dip in some linseed oil seems to do the job.

:bisou:I was worried about that! If the fit is such that things are that tight (which doesn't surprise me or how would it hold) then I'd say two things. First, consider longer bolts. Second, go with Phree and others that are suggesting drill-and-pin approaches. If hockey tape isn't fitting then the Velcro certainly won't either.

(EDIT - John Holgate and I must have been typing at the same time. The advice changes if the bolt holes don't line up versus bolts too short. If they don't line up then no bolt length change matters and, my friend, you're going NUCLEAR.)

Drilling is sort of like cutting wood. You can always go back and cut it shorter. Somewhere earlier was a suggestion to drill the same size as your clamp's bolt holes. I'd start on the much smaller side in the hole department and drop a cotter pin through and clamp it down. The clamp must hold back a lot of shear force, just not quite enough. I suspect even a small cotter pin would take you the rest of the way and not really sacrifice the integrity of the axle. I'd hate to see you blast a giant hole through the axle to drop a bolt through. That would probably be thousands of times larger than you need to get you locked in.

Agree with others. Drill and pin. Quality split point bits. Done..
You will just chase the issue with any other "sandwich" media. IMHO

One option that hasn't been mentioned that I think may be worth considering is this,... if you grind the inside of the flat portion of the clamp (the part where the bolt goes through), you will get more clamping power out of the nut/bolt/clamp combo by giving the clamp more room to close... if that makes sense. I have done this fix to this style clamp (on a drill press ironically) and it did the trick.... I'll do an illustration and post it for a visual... this would be doing the same job as ADDING something to the outer diameter of the axle, but may be more effective.

I think this would be a better fix than trying to drill... I think there are too many variables to that that may end up doing more damage than good... I really think drilling the clamp and axle should be an absolute last option, and you might consider having it done by a metal fab shop.

If you decide to drill, I would offer a suggestion:
Use a quality cutting fluid with the drills. I have used TapMagic and had good results. It will definitely help the drills cut...and you don't need a lot.

Oh, and WEAR EYE PROTECTION!

The idea is that by grinding the interior of the flat pieces that the bolts pass through, you are creating a small gap between them giving your nut-bolt combo more room to move. Forgive the crudeness of the doodles... they are intended to be a cross section of the clamp. If its not obvious, by grinding, I mean using an angle grinder and probably take off as little as 1/32 of an inch (or 1 mm)... just enough to create a small gap.

Before:


After:

I hope drilling won't be necessary. We know Gaffer tape does work. Glen had about 10 sessions in total with this buggy without the axle slipping and I know he won't mind me saying that he is 16st. I'm 14st and it never slipped once with me. He had problems at the beginning trying to prevent slippage as you are now but he persevered. Getting the right tape thickness is crucial. Really tighten those nuts.

If you drill, then the idea of an infinitely adjustable axle is lost and I suspect it's resale value will diminish with it's single height setting. I still think you'll have an easier time with the velcro. Two pieces squashed together between your thumbs takes up very little space.

As you go round and round with this problem one thing to keep in mind is that whatever you do please consider only doing it to ONE SIDE. I imagine you are 95% of the way to the Promised Land with nut tightening with the original design. I would think there is 0% chance that the axle will turn on the non-modified side once you successfully tape/Velcro/drill one side. For slippage to happen then you would need to spiral the axle along its long axis, and that just isn't going to happen, no matter how many stones you're packin' downstairs!

I'm with soliver.
Get the clamps to go tighter, and then maybe try and get some longditudinal friction. Anything I've seen with this kind of joint usually has lengthways grooves/stripes in the axle piece.
Even making something out of round would help.
I wouldn't want to drill the axle myself.
colin
p.s. I'm a carpenter and house builder, not an engineer nor a metal fabricator, so don't listen to a word I say.

Thanks Colin, ... My idea is also presented under the assumption that there is no existing gap between the bolt plates on the clamp when they are on the axle,... but IMHO logic would dictate that if you can tighten the clamp beyond the circumference or OD of the axle it shouldn't slip.

To me drilling it seems like a bad idea... I would also just be concerned about possibly weakening the integrity of the axle by drilling multiple holes in the same area, not to mention the decreased value like RedSky was saying.

Thanks again all!

And nice drawings Spencer!

The clamps don't quite meet when done up tight, so grinding for more leverage won't help. Nice suggestion though. Does beg the question could they go tighter, but I know I would have only ended up stripping the thread.

Still a couple of options to try! As RedSky says, the previous owner managed to nail it with some tape and he is a much heavier unit than me!

I'm sure I'll get there one way or another! :D

Sweet .....