Quote: Originally posted by pbc

How do you want this to evolve?

That's a good question, but really this is up to our membership to decide.

Personally, I prefer the structure of a forum with organized categories and topics (rather than a continuous stream of posts). Organizing posts by sport type (ie buggys, skates, surfing...) makes it easy to browse related threads. It also suits our club and event users who keep their posts separated from the other categories.

But as I said, this could be left to the membership to decide. How to you want the PKF to proceed? Do you want it to become a mobile-friendly app? FB or whatsapp? Remain unchamged?

My question is: would any of these changes really have a positive affect on membership or is declining posts more a measurement of the current level of kitesport enthusiasm?

My contribution to this forum is to provide hosting and I have promised to maintain the domain and content 'til I'm old and grey. If one day posting ended, I would disable registration and maintain the content as a searchable database of sport info/history.

If a change is desired by all, I would gladly turn the site over to someone/s willing, able and committed to taking the community forward. Therefore sober feedback is invited. We should start a poll. What options should we present for a vote?

Keep in mind, 1.) we are discussing a permanent change that would affect every member and 2.) if a change is desired, we need someone to see it through. Considering my current obligations, a software change is beyond my capability.

I'm not so sure that changing to a mobile friendly app such as FB will solve the main issue which is a drop in posts overall. Might just kill the group. Based on what is going on in the news the big time social media platforms (FB, Google, twitter, etc) are all mired down in problems mainly centered on how they use data from members. May not be the best time to jump on their bandwagons.

My vote would not be changing to FB, but definitely update the forum to something more modern. I would certainly be happy to help with design if needed.

Quote: Originally posted by Randy

I'm not so sure that changing to a mobile friendly app such as FB will solve the main issue which is a drop in posts overall. Might just kill the group. Based on what is going on in the news the big time social media platforms (FB, Google, twitter, etc) are all mired down in problems mainly centered on how they use data from members. May not be the best time to jump on their bandwagons.

I think Randy is right. Then again I am old and resist change.

The only issue I see as an issue to some is the text quirk.

I fear that if the site isn't under this respected domain name the old guard who only look back in on occasion will lose touch.

My question is: would any of these changes really have a positive affect on membership or is declining posts more a measurement of the current level of kitesport enthusiasm?

Bingo.

So, XK over in Australia underwent a facelift a couple of years ago and it survived. It suffers from similar issues as PKF, viz., a general drop in active participation.

Their site is distinctly more modern than PKF and keeps things categorized and their old content was further preserved. Might be worth a gander over there to get a look and feel for another nice power kiting site.

ExtemeKites though seems like they have less posts than we do, though it is a little hard to tell because they don't have a today's post section (or at least I haven't seen it.) They are also kind of a pain because they won't even let you visit the site more than a few times if you don't log in. (Of course, that does make life harder for the spammers.) It is a pretty snazzy looking site though.

Quote: Originally posted by Randy

ExtemeKites though seems like they have less posts than we do, though it is a little hard to tell because they don't have a today's post section (or at least I haven't seen it.) They are also kind of a pain because they won't even let you visit the site more than a few times if you don't log in. (Of course, that does make life harder for the spammers.) It is a pretty snazzy looking site though.

XK runs in cycles. Today they have 8 posts to our 3.

A "Today's Post" is something you can define as a "Custom Activity Stream" with the attributes shown in the attached image.

I had never created one before reading your post and it took be about 3 or 4 minutes to do.



I just visited XK 24 times without being signed in? Not quite sure what you are experiencing.

Like PKF, spammers would need to be signed in to post anything.

Normally, I just use the "Stay Logged In" option and so I haven't had to provide login credentials in months and months.

XK has a bunch of core users including our very own John Holgate that tend to post catalyst/ice breaker posts whenever things get slow.

I've seen the same behavior on one or two other forums and when those people left due to life changes, you could hear the chorus of crickets.

ATB,
Sam

I joined kiteforum.com in 2014 and visit most days. Its always very busy there despite the dated website. Kiteboarding got a boost recently from the introduction of foil boards and foil kites but even with all that, there have been discussions over there on declining numbers too.

I don't know why exactly, but I did have a problem with xtremekites.com telling I had visited too many times w/o logging in. I had to send an email to someone to get back in. Normally I stay logged in as well, except for some reason (I think when I get software updates or something) I have to log in again at most of the sites I normally visit. Anyway, I rarely visit it now.

I agree with Feyd. The sport has just become too expensive for most. I entered the sport by buying 3 used kites for $500 shipped. I had a complete starter FB quiver. Today, that would just barely buy me a new bar and lines. The kite progression is amazing but untouchable for me given current priorities.

Couple that with crap weather and lack of motivation and support via forums or fellow riders and it's just hard to stay motivated.

I keep wanting to go out and then keep finding reasons to not.

My entire kite life is chronicled here. I signed on here right after getting my Beamer which I figured was the last kite I'd ever need. :D.
If any changes were made it is critical to maintain the old content as well as the post thread format and searchable content.

There are several kite buggy related pages on Facebook but none of them compare to the community and quality of content or even the volume as here on PKF. Moving there would be the end of what this is.

I don't see a huge need to change. I don't think the format is the cause of the lack of participation and content. The good ole days are just that. If migrating platforms keeps PKF alive then I support that, but swapping to attract users... I see no need. The world (younger people in particular) consumes information differently these days. Its sad to see it fade out but that's sadly the nature of the internet forum world as we know it. ALL the forums that I am active in have seen remarkably similar declines in content and viewership and I'm not on FB or IG. I am on Reddit and I really don't like the way the fleeting nature of their "forums".

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

My entire kite life is chronicled here.

Likewise...hard to see revolutionary change whilst in the middle of it. One of my first kite skiing outings was mentored by many of you years ago...it got hairy at the end! https://youtu.be/__HI3l0bUcg

Moving this to FB wont change anything imo. How long has the pkf fb page been up and how many of us use it? Meanwhile fb pages for other things exist and thriv3 but wow, there is a lot of nonsense, bs just straight up bad information riddling those pages. The ease of access seems to equate to an ease of posting whatever one wants without a need to really consider if something is post worthy.

PKF was the best thing for me when I got started and I still check in a couple times a week.
The format is fine, don't change. This is our special place for our special sport. Don't need all the crap that shows up on FB clouding up the discussions.
No ones FD group can not get away from it unless you have a full time administrator reading all postings there. It's a full time job and most of us have a life and jobs and families.

There's been a few negatives on this forum that slowed me down. One was the fact that anybody without any firsthand experience of an item posted for sale could just rip #@%$#! it apart. Their defense was that they could say anything they wanted to say. Well... some people lost their ethics and civility. It got to the point that you couldn't sell anything here because of a few know-it-all's with big flapping jaws that really didn't know it all. Those negative comments about other peoples equipment was bad form!

It also seems that all the or most newbies arn't commentators. 144 characters at a time is the best they can do. Thay think they have it all figured out and don't need PKF. Even at events most new buggy guys just do their own thing and don't mingle and socialize. PKF is a great place to socialize!

I believe that PKF is the glue that keeps our sport together . A wealth of information for anyone that's not up dating their status every 5 minutes on FB.

Wait...is snoboarder actually Snob Dr? :D

Quote: Originally posted by Kamikuza

Wait...is snoboarder actually Snob Dr? :D

Was my first thought... :D

Quote: Originally posted by Kamikuza

Wait...is snoboarder actually Snob Dr? :D

No way. Too cordial and friendly. That guy would argue that the sun didn't come up this morning. :duh::duh::D:D

I suggest just put a link to the existence of the FB page someplace on the forum: https://www.facebook.com/groups/241030802661751/ Most people don't know it exists.

I think what really put a dent and damper on the forum activity was when at some point the issue with the special punctuation being an issue with being able to make a post using apple products. I know initially I had a few big posts get lost after hitting the reply button. I'm sure that situation frustrated a lot of people before it was finally figured out.

Maybe put a notice somewhere about how to disable that stuff so posts can be made.


Unrelenting spam killed this forum coupled with supposedly no admin and/or the password to the forum is unknown: http://www.panshfans.com/index.php

This site was inactive before I was around in 2010: http://www.racekites.com/forum/forum.php

This site slowly withered away: https://forum.kitecrowd.com Maybe charging $1 to create an account to block spammers kept most people from creating an account?

"That guy would argue that the sun didn't come up this morning. :duh::duh::D:D "

Send him to Scotland, we not seen the sun in a couple of weeks If the rain keeps up going to trade the buggy in for an ark :D

We are not short of wind though

Quote: Originally posted by rtz

I suggest just put a link to the existence of the FB page someplace on the forum: https://www.facebook.com/groups/241030802661751/ Most people don't know it exists.

Like me for instance.

I don't actually know the last time that i used a desktop computer that wasn't at my work, so I completely understand the issues with viewing and posting on this site with a mobile device. The biggest issues for me always seem to be how wide the text layout is, especially if someone puts a large picture in a thread. Sometimes you have to scroll across the screen twice for each line of text you read. That being said I love the way the forum is laid out and wouldn't change that for the world. Having a more updated forum which works better on a mobile device would be a wonderful thing, but not if it's going to cause issues with the content that is already here. Personally I don't think an update will really attract any new people or help anyone find the site, but it might make things easier for some of the current and future members to use the site.

Social media fragments the discussion and has no archive to preserve knowledge. It's really terrible to see it displace so many forums.

I only kite during the winter on my frozen lake, 99% of the time I'm by myself, and the frozen lake terrain can get almost boring sometimes. The one thing that gets me excited to ride and get my ass out the door are the speed rankings that Chris puts on each year. It gives me a goal to work for each week, so thanks for that and I hope you keep it up for years to come!

I'm in favor of a converting PKF to mobile-friendly site. My hope is to be able to read and post to powerkiteforum.com from my phone. Maybe that way I won't fall 10 days behind on this thread again. ;-)

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Social media fragments the discussion and has no archive to preserve knowledge.

I agree and I believe no one is really interested in Facebook or the like. I think it comes down to making no changes or switching to a forum app that works better on mobile devices. At least two options have been discussed above. Here's the problem: conversion is expensive and afterward costs a monthly rate or a lump sum for self hosting with the need for an intense setup. Who will pay for this and who will take on the enormous task of transfer and administration? Another question... what if after all this, the forum continues to fade regardless?

I'm very anti-social media; so I am very much not in favor moving to FB or any other Social Media platform. I'm pleased to see the consensus is that that is not the consensus.

My participation in kiting has waned severely in the last few years, but that is primarily a function of my stage of life, large family and interest in other hobbies. Like others, my kiting is only happening a few times annually and while I have always loved the community here, minimal participation gleans not much to say/contribute.

I've been a member for a while now and have watched the number of lines you see with the "Today's Posts" button decline through the years. I would guess that it is a combination of many things that contribute; from the popularization of social media platforms to a noticeable wane in participation in the sport. (The attendance at the first JIBE I went to many years ago was markedly higher than the most recent).... While I am one who is adverse to change, I would not balk at a change or facelift to the site (so long as it does not involve movement to a Social Media platform), but understand what that entails and am ultimately fine if it stays the same. However, I'm not so sure it will make a great difference.

I did find it ironic that this was the only thread active in "Today's Posts" when I clicked it

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

I did find it ironic that this was the only thread active in "Today's Posts" when I clicked it

Do keep in mind it was 6:47am when you posted ;-)

I would hate to see an end to PKF.It has been instrumental in bringing traction kiting knowledge to people in search of said knowledge. I have met many awesome people who have always been friendly and willing to teach others about the sport. I still lurk here, and I keep up with the forum. I know most of the members who have a FB page. And we communicate on a more personal level there. I know I certainly haven't lost interest in the sport or the forum.

I don't facebook AT ALL but I also don't drop in as often as I used to.. I was here daily (read persistently) for a long time but my interest migrated away from the power side more to the sport and stunt side. There's not a lot of that here. If you read my very first post, I'm pretty sure that's where I was always headed. I still enjoy mu power kityes but they do not get flown as often as they used to.

All of that being said, PKF is a great group but, conversations here tend to be seasonal. The buggy groups are fairly consistent. Water sports tend to be summer and snowkiters tend to be Winter. I'll ask each and every one of you.. Are you here more than you kite or are you not here because you are out flying? I realize I'm not around as much so my vote counts much less but:
-When is the last time you flew??
-When is the last time your shared flying here??
-When is the last time you started a topic??

This is a great site and except for a few small tweaks, it's kinda perfect for what it is. It is a bit ironic that our busiest thread lately is about why we aren't busier here. That seems to be the question for each of us though. Why aren't I posting on PKF lately??