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Author: Subject: HQ Crossfire II
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[*] posted on 27-5-2008 at 05:31 PM


Just checked and my bridle adjustments were way off. I clearly had not stressed them and "set" them properly. The strain of the upwind runs moved them quite bit. I'll be anxious to test it but that will be a while due to travel.



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[*] posted on 28-5-2008 at 10:02 PM


Hey all...
I got 2 cents now... Dlish and I had a lil fun today... I actually feel all giddy like a lil school girl... first reason was due to the Crossfire II 5m of Dlish's I can relate to the flying issues that have been posted... Dlish was kind enough to let me put a screwy tweak on it and I'd have to say "By Golly... I think He's Got It" :lol: we added a knot to the AOA settings... I believe Dlish had made a factory tweak to it based on some instructions from HQ... well as most have stated the knot closest to the handles flew darn good if you ask me we were in 10-15 high @ 20's clean wind (very nice) we added a knot apx 1/2" closer to the handles and that setting seemed to be the ticket... I know I had to be hitting the highest pen jumps to date for me... :singing: One thing that me and Dlish agreed on was a few words that describe the CF II cushy, soft or caddy it was just so easy to fly... soft feeling @ the zenith... floaty... felt as if you had all the control in the world and you were driving a caddy...
Beautiful kite over all... I was very impressed... I think the knots that he had could have been moved 3/4 of an inch and he would have hit the spot... basically the setting he has now...
2nd reason I feel all giddy was this had to be the best day I've had to date... great clean wind 10-15 it was never never land... OOOHHHHH I forgot too mention we found this new spot... Golden... should be butter any time there is wind... location is still a secret...
A few pics from today...
Pic #1

Pic #2

Pic #3

Ace 5m and CF II 5m side by side comparison...



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[*] posted on 28-5-2008 at 10:28 PM


Thanks Screwy for the pics. (who's the poser? :lol: )
Great day .. I feel like I won the lotto ... just look at all that green grass in the pictures.
Just to say alittle more about the spot .. we are not trying to keep it to ourselves or anything, but we just got the green light to fly there today and we want to make sure we get in tight with the people first, before we bring the masses. We haven't even approached them yet about the buggy's. We want them to like us and accept us then we will ask about the buggy's and share with the crew. Its a huge privledge (sp) to be able to fly in these spots, so we want to take it slow and make sure we get to use this spot for along time to come.
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[*] posted on 29-5-2008 at 03:25 AM


I'm wondering what affect having a 3rd knot on that bridle will be. I agree that my handle-side knot flies great and my current knot for the buggy is almost unflyable. Makes me want to see an expert fly it and get some good out of it at the edge of the window. Maybe HQ could do an unofficial youtube vid? I don't feel so inadequate now that 4 of us are having the same trouble. WolfeL has approached me for help with the bridle on his 6.5. We can't all be that bad at flying kites.



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[*] posted on 29-5-2008 at 08:48 AM


BB-
I don't think its us. I was watching Screwy fly it yesterday. When it was on the beginner knot it fly good and would go out to the edge of the wind and have no problems. Then we put it on the advanced knot and when he flew it towards the edge of the window he only got about half to 2/3 of the way to where the edge was on the beginner knot and the kite just folded and died.
With all that said I have never flown a race kite so I don't know if they just have alot smaller window or what.
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[*] posted on 29-5-2008 at 11:23 AM


dlish89 ,

Check the distance between knot A. and B It should be the following:
3.0: 10mm
4.0: 12mm
5.0: 14mm
6.5-10.0: 20mm

mm is milimeter; I know it is a little bit hard to measure correctly. But if the CF is folding too much, shorten the distance a little. I flew the CFII 3.0 in a buggy this past weekend for over an hour in knot B setting.
After initial problems, I got used to manually breaking the kite before it folded up. You can almost feel it right before it colapses. Just give some break input snd the kite stays in shape. Make sure, you brake is not too loose; I would rather recommend the fouth brake knot (closer to the kite).

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[*] posted on 29-5-2008 at 12:10 PM


Thanks Tim.
I have to go buy a measuring device that has mm on it. Then I will measure the distance. there is a posibility that they are off alittle, because my kite needed the original adjustment out of the bag so i may not of put them back exact.
I must say though I'm really liking the setting that Screwy came up with yesterday on a 3rd knot. I know its not for everyone, but what it did was increase the lift and made it extremely stable. Another bonus was it decreased the power of the kite low in the power zone. It made it a real user friendly jumping kite and has no effect on the 2 factory knots. Then just drop back to the A knot and its power on again.
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[*] posted on 29-5-2008 at 01:40 PM


HQ-Powerkites,

Is it possible to get the correct measurements from the bridal connection point to the knots...

Because I think that either Dlish had them in the wrong spot or got the wrong #'s because with them (IMO) moved toward the handles apx 3/4" from where Dlish had them is Key... both knots usable and IMO fantastic... I Love the kite...

I was in disbelief when Dlish got back and told me that the kite wasn't as good as expected... I said yeah right... cmon the truth... your lying... stop pulling my leg... well I understand where he was coming from with the knots in the wrong spot it wasn't the kite I would of expected...

Look to see my quiver bulge with a few HQ's:singing:

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[*] posted on 29-5-2008 at 02:14 PM


see the pdf attached, that explains what and where to pay attention to.

Let me know if it does not make sense.
The CFII leaves some room to play with the setting besides the factory setup. Tuning is very individual and soes not always aplly to everyones flying style.

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[*] posted on 29-5-2008 at 02:15 PM


i just got a msg that the attachment was too big....

email me at t.baxmeyer at hq-kites-usa dot com and I will email you the adjustment sheet

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[*] posted on 29-5-2008 at 07:16 PM


Email sent...



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[*] posted on 29-5-2008 at 09:06 PM


14mm for your 5m is .55 inches or a 1/2 inch.

May be reading too much into this but both DTS lines should be checked for equal length (how long are they supposed to be)? Next, A knot tolerance from the handle end of the power bridle (how far up is the knot supposed to be), then B knot tolerance from the kite (how far down is the knot supposed to be)? If these tolerances are achieved, your final measurement between A and B knots on the 5 meter for example should be 14 millimeters, or .55 inches. or................

how long should the DTS line be? How far up should A knot be on the power bridle, then measure up from A knot depending on kite size for B knot tolerance.............Without the DTS line and A knot tolerances (line length and how far up A knot should be) moving B knots around seems pointless. You need all three tolerances in the first scenario or the first two in the second scenario..............



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[*] posted on 29-5-2008 at 11:44 PM


From what I gathered the three bridal connection points are supposed to line up in the high lift setting and the other knot apx 14mm away (further from the handles) creating a lower AOA less lift and better for the buggy...

my beliefs: both knots could move apx 14mm or 1/2" toward the handles... top knot goes where the lower knot goes and that knot moves 14mm closer to the handle... This is damn close to the way we have Dlish's CF II 5m set up and IMO is perfect... (I just tied an extra knot apx 14mm closer to the handle and left the other knot there... so it has 3 knots, one that should never get used) I'm unsure if each kite is different and needs them in different spots relevant to it's own bridal...

Good luck...

Hope HQ has them set up from the factory from here on out...

Next week I'll try and get exact measurements and post them... after another butta day of flying at the farm...:singing:



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[*] posted on 30-5-2008 at 04:19 AM


"From what I gathered the three bridal connection points are supposed to line up in the high lift setting and the other knot apx 14mm away (further from the handles) creating a lower AOA less lift and better for the buggy"...

sounds all well and good but where is your reference point? Case in point, performing a mixer test on a certain brand kite has reference points/knots that need to be aligned prior to adjusting the mixer. This reference point assures both sides of the sail are tuned equally.



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[*] posted on 30-5-2008 at 04:52 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by tridude
"From what I gathered the three bridal connection points are supposed to line up in the high lift setting and the other knot apx 14mm away (further from the handles) creating a lower AOA less lift and better for the buggy"...

sounds all well and good but where is your reference point? Case in point, performing a mixer test on a certain brand kite has reference points/knots that need to be aligned prior to adjusting the mixer. This reference point assures both sides of the sail are tuned equally.




This image is what the bridle is supposed to look like in the factory intended hi lift mode. Notice that the two knots align with the top of the ring.

You can see a hi res version in my pic link in the sig.



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[*] posted on 30-5-2008 at 05:25 AM


by looking at your pic if your orange line or DTS lines are equal length and your blue or power lines are equal, all you need to know is how far up for A knot needs to be. This would be your reference for B knot distances according to sail size.............



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[*] posted on 30-5-2008 at 05:35 AM


You are correct. It is a balancing act to get those 3 points to line up perfectly. I'm wondering if Screwy is right about shifting both knots towards the handles a quarter to half inch. I'm going to try it all before I quit fiddling with it. There is great potential within this kite, it just isn't all wrapped up in a nice bow. It takes some tinkering. Tim showed me a picture of tying a small piece of cord on the bridle ahead of an adjustment knot with a larkshead to use as a trial spacer. That will be good for the trial and error sessions.



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[*] posted on 30-5-2008 at 01:05 PM


Hey Beamerbob,
In the pic of yours I noticed that you have very lil piggy tail left (the amount of line from the knot closest to the handle to the knot that the power line connects to) not that it matters much, but kinda boggling to me that there is that much difference...

The outcome in reference to the bridal connection points;
In low lift the 3 knots angled up toward the rear (the orange knot was apx 6/7mm from the front knot and the knot on top of the ring was equally in between)
In the high lift setting just the opposite, the 3 knots angled down toward the rear apx 6/7mm from front knot to the orange knot...

I agree that this kite (so far) does not come wrapped in a bow, you have to fly it to get it to wrap in a bow:lol::lol::lol::lol: sorry I couldn't resist...

I was able to keep it from bow tying also, but I believe you shouldn't have to fly a kite in less of a window just to keep it in the air... but I messed with it until I get it to behave... (the slightly tout breaks helped keep it from overflying). So far I think I have Dlish's on point...

I'm gonna try and get pics and #'s for ya all up soon...
You can at least try it, if you want and see if you like it better...

Great Kite, hope everyone comes to enjoy it...



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[*] posted on 1-6-2008 at 08:09 PM


I just checked the bridle adjustments, and while they are off the knots are also tied differently than in the illustrations. The knot on the left actually has (2) loops through the red bridle lines which shortens the length 2-3mm.

The knot through the ring (center) is actually wrapped around the blue bridle line which also shortens that bridle length, while the illustration shows both loops only wrapping around the ring.

I will go ahead and match the pictures for both bridle loops, and then measure for proper length.

CrossFireBridleBefore.JPG - 79kB



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[*] posted on 1-6-2008 at 08:15 PM


Illustration of how knots SHOULD be tied (not length which is shown when incorrect)

CF_Bridle2.jpg - 96kB



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[*] posted on 1-6-2008 at 08:47 PM


WolfeL
so do I understand correctly that your bridles that came from HQ are picture 1 ? or is that your mod ?
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[*] posted on 1-6-2008 at 09:15 PM


They came like that. It was one of the first 6.5-meters off the boat. I have not applied any mods, and am attempting to stabilize the kite on the edges of the window.

Are all the 5-meter CF II's knotted as shown in the how-to illustration?

-Lee



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[*] posted on 1-6-2008 at 09:40 PM


Quote:

Are all the 5-meter CF II's knotted as shown in the how-to illustration?


I'm unsure... anyone???

Pic 1 is crazy... there is no reason for the ring if this is the way they were planed to be used... the blue line is supposed to slide through the ring...:o This is mind boggling...:puzzled: what a trip...

Sounds like you are on the right path...:thumbup:



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[*] posted on 2-6-2008 at 03:10 AM


yeah, you have an error on your ring. I had to snug up the lines on my ring but they weren't bound around the other bridle like yours. You should match the picture from HQ. Then see how she flies. I had a great day with mine yesterday. Tried the third knot and it killed the performance of the kite. Very slow and hard to keep in the sky. Didn't help the lift much either. I guess I had moved my second knot enough that a third knot made it too much. In what I think is the lifty setting, the kite flew very stable and fast. Not enough wind for jumping but she was a pleasure to fly now.



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[*] posted on 2-6-2008 at 03:34 AM


Did it seem to have a hard time inflating and staying inflated?
What was the apx wind range... I'm suspicious of the wind range on these... the day Dlish and I had flown it, the the wind was a clean 12-15 and later maybe 20's... when he flew it at the beach he had less wind I believe... 8-12... hmmmmmm...



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[*] posted on 2-6-2008 at 04:12 AM


I had low winds. Maybe 8 at best. I imagine that's why you were getting away with that third knot. I commonly have these sub 8 mph winds and have to make the best of it. I'm happy with my lifty setting but am going to lengthen the "buggy" knot and try some slightly longer positions with some pigtail spacers for optimization on both knots. I've never had trouble inflating this kite and keeping it that way. I also noticed a difference between the II and original CF yesterday. This kite launches more readily. The old model would be tough to launch in light winds and this one just jumps up in the sky.



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SCREWYFITS
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[*] posted on 2-6-2008 at 04:55 AM


Interesting...

I know what will fix everything...



Screwy handles :lol: :lol: :lol: just hook them up and the wind picks up and smooth and clean... :D :D :D hopefully you'll have'm this week...

let us know what you find with moving that buggy knot...

Screwy



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WolfeL
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[*] posted on 5-6-2008 at 01:58 PM


Well I adjusted the left knot shown above to only have one loop through the red bridle lines instead of two, and re-did the knot through the loop so it could slide as illustrated. At this point all the knots lined up, so it was time to fly.

The wind was 12-14mph with gusts to 20+, so I was slightly intimidated with the CF II 6.5m in these conditions. Against better judgement :puzzled: I cautiously launched the kite up the side of the window and kept it high overhead in the high-lift setting.

I've been flying and jumping with someone's 4.9 Blade IV in the high-lift setting and am familiar with the "Blade Pose", but this kite was pulling me straight up vertical with what seemed like 160-180 pounds of force. Not just on gusts, but nearly all the time as I kept the kite at zenith. I was either unweighted and moon-walking across the field, or lofted a few inches just struggling to control the kite. I felt completely over-powered at zenith and quickly named the kite "Otis" for the relentless elevator like tendencies.

I purposely did not wear the kite-killers so I could bail out and let the kite go in this large field, so decided to try a few re-directs (also against better judgement talking in my ear).

The first very high very slow re-direct was fine as I struggled to just stay on the ground. Then as I re-directed the other way, the combination of slightly more speed and a gust lifted me hard. I felt myself still accelerating up at about 4-5 feet, but can't say how high it was. It felt too over-powering in these dirty wind conditions with the 6.5m, so I packed the CF II up and launched a smaller kite.

This is my low-wind jumping kite and I'm sticking to 10-14mph for now and it will need to be CLEAN wind :yes:



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SCREWYFITS
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[*] posted on 9-6-2008 at 02:33 PM


I think I'm aiming for a 6.5m order here in a few days, so lets see what the bridal will look like now...



Naish, Helix 9m / ARX 11.5m
Flexifoil, Blade IV 6.5 Blade VIP 8.5
Peter Lynn Twister II 7.7m, Viper 2.6m x2, 3.9m x2, 5.3m, 6.8m, Reactor II 4.4m
Ozone, HAKA 5m (make an offer)
Flysurfer Titan 9.5m, Speed 10m
Zebra Z2 5m

Flexi Scout- US357 #247

"I wanted to change the world. But I have found that the only thing one can be sure of changing is oneself" -Aldous Huxley
"Save a tree eat a beaver" -Someone Great-
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BeamerBob
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[*] posted on 10-6-2008 at 02:54 AM


After my great session, I'm sure this is a great kite and there are good settings for the kite. I might pick up one of the 8 meter models for the light wind days. Those babys are L O N G. Higher AR on the bigger models.



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Uturn Butane 2.5m PKD Buster 3m Genetrix Hydra 7m Ozone Yakuza GT 14m
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