How great to see you online and in good spirits.
:bigok:

Sorry but I have to ask but it is driving me crazy.

How did things play out after the accident ? Who was with you and how soon did they know you were down ? Is there cell coverage on the lake ? Is that how you got help ? How long before they got some pain med's into you ?

From the 1st time I heard of Alvord I questioned these things. It's like you lived my nightmare !

Let us all reflect on the fact. "When you push the envelope,sometimes it tears."
Not to say anything is wrong with pushing the envelope,that is how we find our bounds. I too had a few "warnings" before I flipped and broke my shoulder,I didn't listen either. Brothers and Sisters, when that lil voice starts in ... Listen to it.
Glad you are feelin well enough to be online Josh. Be sure to post up a play by play. You know we all want to know "what not to do".
WG

speedy recovery wishes from NJ

I can't freaken believe it! he is no doubt laying in a hospital bed while promoting Alvord! love this! one tough customer it is a huge relief to hear from you Josh! thanks for posting. I bet everyone has the same questions that Bladerunner asked and would be very interested in the details when you are feeling up to it I do know that there is very good cell service on the playa with Sprint, T-moble, and Verizon. during our first camping adventure there we had lightning strike and cause a fire on the mountainside, we called 911 and someone was there to check it out within 35 min. I think there are EMS trained volunteers within 35 min. but lets wait to hear how things went for Josh.

I was about 4 miles out on the lake bed. A large gust nearly knocked CeCe over, and she was concerned with how big it was so she started to look for me. We had talked about it before hand, what she needed to look for incase I did get in trouble. Heavy conditions, but ridable.

After the accident I was down for probably 5-10 minutes before she got to me. Cell coverage is spotty, but she got an emergency call through to Burns, the nearest large town. Unfortunately the folks in Burns really don't seem to know where Alvord is or much about it (which we kind of already knew. Some people there are vaguely aware of something out there but that's about it.) Finally she was able to get enough of a signal to relate to the emergency people in Burns that we were 20 miles from Fields Station, which the operator was familiar with. We were told that Fields had a 1st responder. He is a local ranch hand named Mike, to whom I owe a debt of extreme gratitude. The Burns emergency people were able to contact Mike but it was pretty comfortably an hour before he was able to get to us. He has limited resources, but can help make an injured person comfortable, provide oxygen, and help guide EMS to the location, which he did.

An ambulance was dispatched from Burns, but the left their facility before they knew precisely where we were and ended up taking the 205 route which is about 45 minutes longer of a drive but is almost entirely paved (the extra drive time was troublesome to Mike but they were already on their way. 1:45 later they called from Fields Station for some final location info and what to expect upon arrival. It took almost 4 hours from when I was injured for EMS to get to me and start first aid. I asked if they could do anything for pain, to which one of them replied "Oh yes. They don't call me Gretta the snow queen for nothing." That first shot of morphine was a beautiful thing, let me tell you. After that, I was loaded into the ambulance, (2 ranch hands, one also named Mike, and one named P.J. helped CeCe take apart my buggy and load it in the car, PJ drove a couple of miles out onto the lake bed and found my kite,) and taken to Burns hospital by the shorter gravel road to ORS 78.

The ambulance crew checked me for other injuries and got me warmed back up. I was a little hypothermic after laying on the ground in the wind for so long. The ambulance crew were very courteous and thorough, and had me back to the Burns hospital in less than an hour and a half. After some CAT scans in Burns, it was determined that the hospital in Bend, OR would not have the trauma capabilities that I needed. Then came a flurry of phone calls to try to find a pilot to fly me to Portland. This took several hours, and I think I finally made it to Legacy Emanuel Hospital trauma section at about 11 pm Saturday night, just a little under 12 hours after my accident.

I can't say enough about the efforts made by both the first responders from the local ranches, as well as the determination and dedication of the Burns EMS personnel to get me the help help that I needed and to make me as comfortable as possible with the limited resources that they have. And lastly, but most importantly, I would like to give a special thank you to my girl Corren"CeCe" Ferrell who stayed there with me until I was put on the plane to come back up to Portland. Thank you Curly Girly!

Glad things worked out all the way to the hospital. I laugh now thinking how it went for my trip to the hospital. You at least had morphine for the drive, I can still remember every rock, bump, crack, turn, hill, and each grain of sand that shouldn't be in that spot or on the road. They scooped up 3 cups of sand out of my hospital bed on my first trip to X-ray.

Enjoy the morphine, but hate the side effects. Have they gave CeCe anything to help her pain yet? Hang in there girl, he will get better.

Wow Josh,

Thanks for sharing that. Almost exactly as I imagined accept I thought CeCe would have to drive to cell coverage. Wondered if you would be baking or freezing but knew the desert is rarely just right.

So glad you made it through and that Gretta did her thing to help with the rest of the wait.

Glad you are down but not out!

Wow, that's tough to think of you laying there in pain that long. Glad you are warm and with managed pain now. CeCe is an angel, but you knew that. :bigok:

Wow! 12 hours! not good, not dissing the respondors but I think there is a better way. Because I work for a hospital I am a member of Air St. Lukes but anyone can purchase a membership. it is a 2 hour flight from Meridian Idaho. I suggest becoming a member of Air St Lukes http://www.stlukesonline.org/specialties_and_services/ASL/se... its cheap and could have you arriving at a full trama center in around 4-6 hours. I will look into more details on this and post what I learn.

@Bladerunner- Cell coverage is spotty, she had to wander around for a bit to get signal sometimes, and weather does have some effect on radio signal strength. I had also been heading to the NNE on my course which put me in line with one of the highest peaks in the Steens mountains. For those unfamiliar with Alvord, the Steens are mountains that literally butt up against a big chunk of the western shoreline, rising to almost 6000' above the playa. Other areas of the lake bed seem to get better coverage, even data coverage. We were unlucky enough to be in a bit of a dead spot.

@Bobby- Yes she is and yes I am. CeCe stayed right there with me, only taking few steps away to try to get better signal or couple of hundred feet when I asked her to go get my buggy.... so I could see how fast I was going. Strange yes, but focusing on small things or finding humor helps eliminate panic.

@MDK- Depending on the severity of the accident and availablity, Burns can dispatch aircraft. I would Imagine that would be a little weather dependent as well. First responder Mike was talking about some of the ATV accidents he'd seen out on the playa. The gist of it was compound fractures and other more obiously serious injuries got the helicopter no matter what. Others were on a case by case basis, or if aircraft were unavailable. In my case I was stable and not in shock, so they elected to go by ground.

Some of the planning for the October event that I am working to put together was to investigate what options there were for dealing with emegencies out there, or even just unfortunate situations. I had hoped to come about some of the info in a different way obviously, but life happens. Sean did some checking and found out pricing and even rental unit satellite phones, so that would eliminate one big problem. We also now have a phone number for a 1st responder in the area so we can contact him directly to get him en route faster than having to go through Burns 911 and have them do it. GPS is essential out there, and make sure everyone in the group is familiar with how to use them. Being able to relay GPS coordinates to emergancy personnel would also be a good thing.

Sean and I are still compiling a list that includes phone numbers, names, distances to various locations, etc., as well as some basic do's and don'ts that will assist those wanting to make the trek.

-EDIT- Double post. Pain meds :wow::wee:

Yep, that is exactly what I am learning too, only the less painful way. Josh you are a trooper for sure! Thanks for your efforts on this! That is fantastic, just that you have first responder contact! let me know if there is anything I can help with for October, I think you are going to have plenty other things to worry about.

Something I use when I am out in the middle of no where is one of those spot devices. If you are injured like you were you just push 911 and the gps coordinates get sent to EMS via satellite. I have often wondered if they would send a chopper or ambulance. Probably depends on where you are.

I am not surprised they sent a ground unit. If they had a better indication that you were as injured as you are they would have probably sent a chopper. They probably couldn't tell until they took some images. All of our pelvis fractures get shipped to a level 1 trauma center. You can loose 1500ml of blood in your pelvis and it is no small injury. Pelvis fractures themselves qualify to upgrade from a moderate trauma to a full trauma but we often don't know at first. Jeff, you would have been a full too. Both of you are VERY LUCKY.

Pad up and ride on.

Brings back to many memories for me, with that I welcome Josh into the club as a new recruit. When, and if you end up with a bit of titanium, you will become a full member. Hoping you dont need to have surgery but if its needed.....and yes weather does affect that area.

As for the cell coverage, on my last trip I had 3 phones with 3 different carriers and the only one that worked 95% of the time was with AT&T, with a bit of movement it was 100%.
The use of walky talky's is a good idea also for simple communication on the playa, only you need to keep it with you and not leave it in the middle of the lakebed, right MDK? (most any will do as long as you are all on the same channel)

Quote:

Originally posted by stetson05 Something I use when I am out in the middle of no where is one of those spot devices. If you are injured like you were you just push 911 and the gps coordinates get sent to EMS via satellite. I have often wondered if they would send a chopper or ambulance. Probably depends on where you are. I am not surprised they sent a ground unit. If they had a better indication that you were as injured as you are they would have probably sent a chopper. They probably couldn't tell until they took some images. All of our pelvis fractures get shipped to a level 1 trauma center. You can loose 1500ml of blood in your pelvis and it is no small injury. Pelvis fractures themselves qualify to upgrade from a moderate trauma to a full trauma but we often don't know at first. Jeff, you would have been a full too. Both of you are VERY LUCKY. Pad up and ride on.

so what you're saying is Ce Ce should have given him some visible injuries and they would have sent the chopper? kidding aside, thanks for that info, something to look into!

Ha ha ! Jeff yes, I did find it the next day though, amazingly, since I had no idea where I lost it.

Surgery in about 45 minutes, nervous so I'm babbling. Might be useful to try a couple of different brands of radios to see what practical ranges they really have. I know in September when MDK, Jeff, and Gerald came out I tried calling mike with mine from the other side. I could tell it was Christie on the other end but things were pretty garbled and not of much use for actual communication. This would ne another thing to add to a recommended equipment list. As soon as I have committed more of this to paper (well ok hard disk space) I'll start a new thread and probably include a link for an Alvord FAQ of sorts. Been collecting a lot of info on resources in the area, as well as distances and gps coordinates. Also I'll include what the October event plan is shaping up to look like, so it would be good to hear peoples preferences on dates and duration. I've already spoken to Rich regarding making it a NAPKA sanctioned and insured event.

Quote:

Originally posted by MDK Ha ha ! Jeff yes, I did find it the next day though, amazingly, since I had no idea where I lost it.

the fact it was camo colored didnt help.
On the new walkie talkies, they have an emergency button which is monitored for this specific reason. It give out the GPR concordances and they can also talk back to you on that emergency channel.(I accidentally pushed it to see if it really worked, had a nice chat with the guy on the other end):saint:
This is kinda like the ones I have.

My family frequently found ourselves on hikes with no cell coverage and ended up separated so we picked up some radios to allow us to get grouped back together. No emergency button on them but they have a 50 mile range in optimal conditions, submersible, and privacy codes so we don't have to listen to anyone elses conversations. I figure they should work all around a lakebed since there aren't many obstacles between radios.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/i-market_2259_412422714

Josh's, Jeff's, and Donnie's injuries have got me thinking more about some sort of short term disability insurance.
Not just for kiting, but general piece of mind. Like many others, I'm more prone to get hurt outside of work goofing and playing. Then what do we do? :dunno:

My problem is the older I get, the younger I think I am. Tried the skimboard thing last year btw. Oh what a bad idea that was.... :embarrased:

Glad to see you are up in spirits Josh!! Heal up soon bro!

Quote:

Originally posted by heliboy50 I've already spoken to Rich regarding making it a NAPKA sanctioned and insured event.

Don't forget that this is ONLY liability insurance for land owner (BLM) and/or organizers. Individuals MUST be current NAPKA members.

Good luck with your pending surgery. Hope to see you soon.

Quote:

Originally posted by 3shot Josh's, Jeff's, and Donnie's injuries have got me thinking more about some sort of short term disability insurance. Not just for kiting, but general piece of mind. Like many others, I'm more prone to get hurt outside of work goofing and playing. Then what do we do? :dunno: My problem is the older I get, the younger I think I am. Tried the skimboard thing last year btw. Oh what a bad idea that was.... :embarrased: Glad to see you are up in spirits Josh!! Heal up soon bro!

Whats that duck say? AAAAFLAC I thinkMy wife has this for me and herself now, would have been better to have it before.

WOW, what a story! Hope you have a speedy recovery!

http://www.findmespot.com/en/

My wife and I got one of these because we are out of cell phone range on so many of our "adventures" Some peace of mind if the cell phone does not work.

A speedy recovery to you Heli....really puts things in perspective.

Morrie makes an important point.

Personal injury insurance is every riders own choice and something I think every rider should look into .
NAPKA insurance is a different thing. If the BLM rule I read about saying "maximum 12 people or it's an event" thing is correct then NAPKA insurance could solve that issue. They can supply the liability insurance Required by the BLM ( or other land owners ) .

If somebody was injured at a NAPKA event personal insurance would be their responsibility. NAPKA would only be protecting the land owner and host of the event .

Please don't confuse NAPKA membership with personal protection.

:bigok:


Welcome back from the table Josh! I sure hope it's all good news! Your PKF family is there with you !:saint:

Thanks guys. I'm in a lot of pain from surgery yesterday, but I'll make it. I am aware of what the napka insurance coverage provides and that it doesn't cover the participants but rather the land owner and more specifically the event sponsors and organizers; this is one of the main reasons for making this a napka event. The other reason I felt it was the right direction to go was that it could help boost napka membership. I told Rich that we would have waivers and a scanner or something so they could be sumittted, and the capacity to accept payments and produce number plates onsite.

get well soon