My last shipment cleared NY's customs in two days. Then limbo for weeks in the next state over...

We shall see if Canada customs is any better..LOL

I emailed Steffen to ask about "custom" sizes and his replay was that they added 2 weeks onto the expected delivery. Not sure if thats different for y'all Canadians, but hey, here's hoping!!

This is what the Email said.

Upon receipt of the purchase amount, the activation of NST-3- / 3.2sqm special production is done in our tailoring with a production time of 2 weeks

It looks like I read that wrong. 2 weeks to produce and then shipping and customs on top of that.

bummer... sorry bud

Either way, the kites are well worth the wait.

Nasawing on dépower bar is cool. I can hold the 13 sqm up to 4 beaufort
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nodlr87NcSM

Hey John, any more to say on the 3.2m competition yet?

Hang on! Let me get this right..... 13 sqm in 13 - 17mph wind. Is that on short lines? On 25m lines with my 11.5sqm I'd be crossing the Atlantic waving to Renny as I passed over!

I hope to officially announce the ns3 comp info last half of Feb so stay tuned.

As for Beaufort 4 with a 13m.... Must be really dry air. At 14 knots I've got my hands full with the 7m NS2.

Coming back from Kingston today so some more NS3 info and video in a couple of days.

Do you use a depower bar ? When you let the bar out the wing flatten like a flag and you can repower a bit to go further here the wind is very gusty but i m not sure about wind speed that s what i feel about it but i beleive i can handle the wing it with 20 kmh wind , riding depowered wiht 20 m lines
on my video their must be 3 beaufort

Alf, see this vid for an explanation of the NS2's depower bar. Pro Depower bar

i hav seen your vid several times but hard for me to understand i use this bar in an older version :
i quit never had to release , i simply depower and land when it s to much
http://www.kiteattitude.com/france/universal_control_bar.htm

front lines in the center , brakes lines at the ends
i use the same bar with the synergy 15 but i hav not riden the synergy very offen

now my favorite set up is : 5 mfront lines in the hook , brake lines (fixed together) in hands, no bar ; it depowers completly

in a sense it s the same as this without shoulder steering
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4tvA-nJNIU

i want to try with the synergy so i could jump

No problem Alf, it's just quoting "I can hold.... in this wind" my be taken literally by a newbie. In my experience unless you have a depower set-up on the kite (NPWs not Nasa Stars) the releasing of the brakes is not a de-power option, as you say it takes the tension off the TE and the kite is not fully inflated, I do this if it's sitting up at the zenith, however when using it for traction I find a partially inflated kite is not really under full control and is less predictable..... I'd change down a size rather than have an over powered kite or one that is flapping around because it's too big for the conditions.

13 m in such winds is more surviving than kiting but i offen do it cause i don t like to change the kite , to much work for me and i hav only a 4,1 sqm nasa i prefer to put the lines of when their is to much wind
good rides to all

Just got my NS3's!!! Ordered the 2.5 and the 4m on Dec 27, and they arrived in the mail today. Flaked the 2.5 out on the floor in my basement and had a good look at her. Fantastic build quality 😃. Laser straight stitches and no thread hangers. Lovely. I primarily fly static, but I can't wait to get out on the snowboard with these!

@ dangerdan - glad you're getting one too. These will look awesome in the sky together at the field.

@John Holgtate - you are a bad man for posting those great videos and making me want these..lol. Keep it up!

Quote: Originally posted by Darknessnam

Just got my NS3's!!! Ordered the 2.5 and the 4m on Dec 27, and they arrived in the mail today. Flaked the 2.5 out on the floor in my basement and had a good look at her. Fantastic build quality 😃. Laser straight stitches and no thread hangers. Lovely. I primarily fly static, but I can't wait to get out on the snowboard with these! @ dangerdan - glad you're getting one too. These will look awesome in the sky together at the field. @John Holgtate - you are a bad man for posting those great videos and making me want these..lol. Keep it up!

I hate you...you got yours first

I was reviewing a few videos on how to fly the Nasa Star 2 on handles.
Why can't the middle depower line be connected to 2 pigtails and run each line to the brakes on the handle rather than use the Z bridle.

I think you could...but you wouldn't want the extra weight of two lines on the depower line - it's very sensitive and any extra weight will start to fold the nose over. So I think you'd be best splitting the line close to the handles.

Much, much better to rig std four line/Z bridle method. Then you can actually make use of the brakes either to dump the kite on via killers or just reef some brake on, or land the kite with the brakes.

I only find the depower function useful as a primary safety in the buggy. I think it was designed more with streetkiting and low rolling resistance/short lines in mind. In the buggy, it slows the kite and sits it back in the window which is not what I want. But worth experimenting with if you're not in the buggy.

I re-tried the Ozone Turbo bar on the 2.5 NS2 today with Z bridles - nope, turns far too fast for me and I thought I had the brakes dialed right off. Musta still had too much brake input going into the trailing edge. Safety worked well though.

Thanks John

Quote:

I was reviewing a few videos on how to fly the Nasa Star 2 on handles. Why can't the middle depower line be connected to 2 pigtails and run each line to the brakes on the handle rather than use the Z bridle.

This would result in steering action affecting the depower. This can be overcome by a pulley arrangement but that would mean holding on to both handles which is an uncomfortable way of flying. When overpowered (i.e. that’s when you need the depower function) quite a bit of tension is needed to depower and therefore it would be very uncomfortable to hold the handles at an angle for any length of time. Besides, there would not be enough input from the handle orientation to provide effective depower from conventional length handles. Some tension is required to activate the depower so the the weight of the lines is irrelevant. In fact little slack is needed on depower line, much less than on brake lines. In my NS 2.4’s I have the 5-th line connected to my harness with a sliding/locking device which allows me to have 0 pull on my arms and still have the depower function. This makes it nicer than a “true” depower and is the main advantage of handles over the bar for these kites. I disagree with the characterization of the depower function as suitable for “streetkiting” only. The depower function has nothing to do with the surface drag or line length. And in spite of its primitive origin it works remarkably well and it does not affect the window width or upwind ability in a significant degree PROVIDING the kite does not have these undesirable tendencies to begin with. The depower function significantly increases the wind range of these kites which is important since, in my experience, aggressive flying is not as effective for them as for good FB’s as means of extending the range. So I find myself flying NS’s much more often parked ( often depowered to a degree ) and bigger then I would normally fly a FB relying on flying to generate additional pull when needed as means of extending the range.

I'm not sure I agree with line drag being irrelevant. I've tried the ns2's on 40 meter lines on the 3 line depower bar and line drag caused the center line to depower the nose partially no matter how I tuned it. The nose depower function is sensitive. However, I haven't tried putting very light 80 lb line to the nose which I theorize might work, but doubling standard linesets does not work due to the line drag. Also, the linesets I tried were standard pl linesets without the knot sleeves. I would guess doubling 2 born kite linesets with knot sleeves would make the problem even worse. (knot sleeves have no negative effects up to 25m lines.)

I do not fly NS on a bar so I do not believe everything I think but what I think is that this tendency to nose collapse (and perceived sensitivity to line tension) may have something to do with how the depower line is connected in a loop with the power lines and does not have enough slack. This arrangement is not quite the same as my free hanging 5-th line. If this argument does not hold water then I should make it clear that my 2.4’s are substantially modified 2’s. And yes, I use very thin 3 lines. As I said, even with very little slack on depower line I have no problem with the nose and I have to clearly increase the tension before I see any depower effect.

Quote:

then I should make it clear that my 2.4’s are substantially modified 2’s.

I think that may well be the source of what you're finding is completely different to what I'm finding.

What you are posting may be confusing some people - we are talking about the standard Nasa Star 3, and mostly on the stock bar setup. Not a modified NS2 on handles with a 5th line setup.

The question I responded to had nothing to do with a stock bar setup and was equally applicable to NS2 as to NS3. Neither the statement:

Quote:

I only find the depower function useful as a primary safety in the buggy.

implied that it only applied to NS3 (and not to NS2) on a bar (not on handles). It that were to be the case then NS3 would be a step backwards from NS2 and the use of a bar would not make much sense. Without an effective depower NS 2 or 3 on a bar is nothing more than an ordinary NPW5 on 2 lines and the use of handles is by far the superior alternative. Fortunately, the depower is quite effective, much more so when the kite is modified to fly wider and more like a good FB.

Having a moment of reflection on the issue of depower line tension I am more than before inclined to dismiss the possibility that my mods are the source of the difference of opinion. If anything the effect would be the opposite since my 2.4’s sit wider in the window. On the other hand the way the bar works, any slack in the depower line would be undesirable because it would adversely affect the range of depower. So my guess is that there is actually quite a bit of tension in the depower line creating an illusion of overly sensitive control. Whether this is true or not can be easily verified by any bar flier by observing the depower line deflection.

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree.

Depower on the NS2 and NS3 feels about the same and I still don't like pulling any depower at speed in the buggy - I don't like how the kites handles (which is about the only thing I don't like about them) when depowered and I feel that they're on the edge of back stalling. But I find it excellent as a primary 'oh #@%$#!' safety.

Yes, I fly it basically as a two line kite on a bar. (stock NS 2/3 setup) Handles are superior if you need that extra control - for me in the buggy, the kite does everything I need it to do and I'm very relaxed flying it on a bar, so handles are not necessary or superior for my use but yes, they will allow more control if you rig the kite up as a four line.

And on my depower lines (stock NS2 and NS3) there is very little or no tension nor can the line tolerate any extra weight. And as a bar flier who has many times observed the depower line deflection/nose deflection when applying pressure to the center line, I'd like to think you'd take my word for it. And if not, watch the videos.

No reason to doubt what you are saying – we all discuss the issues in good faith, don’t we ?. That would mean that the adjustments to B2 and B3 made the difference. This possibility I did consider but it obviously was not on top of the list. Good to know.

I am most likely not giving the depower function of the Nasa Star's the credit that it deserves - the depower system is certainly designed for more than just the primary safety which I use it for. Mind you, even fully powered, I find the 2.5m & 3.2m 3 more forgiving and relaxing to fly than my Ozone Access 4m albeit in a narrower wind range as the Access can cover 17 - 30 knots and more if you're skilled where as the 3.2m is good from around 13 knots to the low 20's. (in the bug). Even as a fixed bridle, it's still a pretty good wind range.

Prussik, I wish I was able to fly your modified Nasa Stars - my earlier efforts to reduce the AOA slightly were a bit crude and not particularly successful and I feel the NS3's could be getting close to the perfect kite (at least for me) if they could sit a little further forward at speed which your mods sound like they've gone a long way towards achieving. I'd also like to see the 5 line/handle setup in action - I can't quite see it in my head.

The Nasa Stars may be bridled with such a steep angle of attack to enable the reverse launch when used in two line mode ?? It certainly keeps everything simple and easy to use.

I imagine the Nasa Stars are pretty comparable to their NPW counter parts, from what I've tried out on my NPWs you'd be surprised at how little the AoA range is before you get into nose collapsing/wing flapping and back-stalling. When I de-powered my larger ones (8m & 11.5m) I found that keeping the wing edge bridles fixed and allowing the main body AoA to change keeps the stability, which is why I reckon the NS's use the centre to de-power and let the wings keep it flying. Obviously with the centre AoA changing the window does increase to the point it will just start to over fly at the zenith.

Whilst the design looks very simplistic there is a lot going on in terms of AoA and profile shape, which is why they intrigue me and keep niggling away in the back of my brain :D

Ok John,... I believe one could officially make the argument that it is the latter half of the month of February, ...what's the skinny on winning the 3.2m NS3?????????

inquiring minds want to know :o:o:o